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fast 2-way center to the islanders

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Old
04-19-2012, 02:45 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Sorry, Plekanec is not worth the 4th overall. He is a good, not great player. Starting with the 2007-8 season (the year he broke out), Plekanec has averaged .72 ppg, exactly the same as Alex Tanguay and Vinny Prospal, and behind players like Simon Gagner, Erat, Tim Connolly, etc. He has reached 60 points exactly twice in his career.

I would like to have him on the Isles, but he isn't worth more than a mid-first and maybe a B-prospect. You just don't trade top prospects for "good" players.
I agree. He's not worth the 4th overall and the pick and prospect is right, or at least in the neighbourhood of what I'd expect in return for Plekanec if he's traded.

I'd just like to add that Plekanec is underrated defensively imo.

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04-19-2012, 02:53 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Sorry, Plekanec is not worth the 4th overall. He is a good, not great player. Starting with the 2007-8 season (the year he broke out), Plekanec has averaged .72 ppg, exactly the same as Alex Tanguay and Vinny Prospal, and behind players like Simon Gagner, Erat, Tim Connolly, etc. He has reached 60 points exactly twice in his career.

I would like to have him on the Isles, but he isn't worth more than a mid-first and maybe a B-prospect. You just don't trade top prospects for "good" players.
The difference is that a bunch of those players have had injury issues and Plek provides Selke caliber defense. I wouldn't even consider trading him for any of the players you listed. Erat is probably the second best but I would still take Plekanec easily.

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Old
04-19-2012, 02:59 PM
  #53
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I agree we have good center depth but outside of Strome I dont see 2nd line center upside of any of our prospects. Maybe Nelson or Ullstrom as 2b's. Bailey is going to be a career winger but might be able to fill that role at some point. I just think there is a pretty large gap between Tavares and our near ready prospects at center. That is why I want Galchenyuk in the draft if we are so lucky he is available in case Strome does not work out.
I really believe that Nelson will be an above avaerage second line player. He has all the tools. I can honestly turning into a player very similar to Jordan Staal.

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04-19-2012, 03:07 PM
  #54
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Derek Roy+Buffalo's 1st for Islanders 1st

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Old
04-19-2012, 03:22 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
I really believe that Nelson will be an above avaerage second line player. He has all the tools. I can honestly turning into a player very similar to Jordan Staal.
this in 3 years, i expect him to play 1 season in the ahl, than he has a rookie season where he puts up acceptable numbers for a rookie and than his sophmore season he explodes

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Old
04-19-2012, 03:34 PM
  #56
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this in 3 years, i expect him to play 1 season in the ahl, than he has a rookie season where he puts up acceptable numbers for a rookie and than his sophmore season he explodes
Then why are you trying to trade for players we already have? Nielsen, Bailey, Ullstrom, Cizikas are all very good place holdersfor this coming season till, Strome, Nelson, Kabanov, Nino are ready to take over thier respective top-6 roles.

We need to pick-up another Dman, We need to pick another talented player in the draft.

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04-19-2012, 03:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
Then why are you trying to trade for players we already have? Nielsen, Bailey, Ullstrom, Cizikas are all very good place holdersfor this coming season till, Strome, Nelson, Kabanov, Nino are ready to take over thier respective top-6 roles.

We need to pick-up another Dman, We need to pick another talented player in the draft.
bailey is a winger, nielsen is a 3rd line center, ullstrom is a winger, cizikas isnt ready yet, strome should be in the chl next season nelson kabanov and nino should get all the time they need in the ahl

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04-19-2012, 04:41 PM
  #58
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I agree. He's not worth the 4th overall and the pick and prospect is right, or at least in the neighbourhood of what I'd expect in return for Plekanec if he's traded.

I'd just like to add that Plekanec is underrated defensively imo.
I think he's underrated offensively as well. He is one of the best 2nd line centres in the league, and someone worthy of being mentioned as a Selke level defensive forward. He has consistently been a top shutdown forward, led the PK to a top 5 finish yearly, all while scoring about 20G per season, and 50-69pts a year. Even his "off" years he finds ways to score pts and contribute.

I don't want to see him leave MTL as he is one of those few that is a "homegrown" player, drafted and developped in our system.

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04-19-2012, 05:56 PM
  #59
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when does his contract expire?
he has 4 more years, therefore he is locked in

i'd like to see Plekanek, Weber, Nashvilles second and a prospect (maybe kristo)
for
Iles first rounder and Nino

Weber would be reunited with his fellowmen Streit

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04-19-2012, 05:58 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
I think he's underrated offensively as well. He is one of the best 2nd line centres in the league, and someone worthy of being mentioned as a Selke level defensive forward. He has consistently been a top shutdown forward, led the PK to a top 5 finish yearly, all while scoring about 20G per season, and 50-69pts a year. Even his "off" years he finds ways to score pts and contribute.

I don't want to see him leave MTL as he is one of those few that is a "homegrown" player, drafted and developped in our system.
Me neither, but in order to improve, you gotta deal players with value to get value.

Yearly ? I could have swore this was the first year the habs finished in the top 5 for pk. Normally it's PP lead by Markov.

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Old
04-19-2012, 05:59 PM
  #61
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Any interest in Roy?

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Old
04-19-2012, 06:20 PM
  #62
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Speedy center I would honestly look at Lombardi only because he could be had for little to nothing. Also he has in the past (With Phoenix.) put up a 60 point campaign so it is not like he has never hit it before.



TOR

Late Pick
(Low Salary swap.)


NYI

Lombardi

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Old
04-19-2012, 06:24 PM
  #63
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Roy and our weaker 1st rd pick for your 1st rd pick.

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04-19-2012, 06:46 PM
  #64
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Roy straight up for Nino.

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Old
04-19-2012, 06:52 PM
  #65
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Kesler might be available but it'll cost u a Carter like return. Kesler and Grabner have great chemistry as well, they played together in Vancouver

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04-19-2012, 11:04 PM
  #66
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For the TLDR crowd: Read the bold part

If we're going for a 2nd line center, then he needs to be able to score goals, skate, have some size/grit and drive to the net. We have a wealth of playmakers, but lack goal scorers and plus physical attributes in the top-6. Ideally, we could use a 1A center with plus physical attributes (size, skating, strength.) That would go a long way to improving the makeup of the team.

Nielsen would be fine as a 2nd line center, but we're lacking big, goal scoring talented wingers to help out along the boards and reduce some of the burden in front of the net. (Not to mention drive to the net with the puck. Nielsen shies away from that like it's the plague.) We also have a defense that doesn't scare anyone with its size or grittiness.

In our division, Nielsen really isn't the perfect checking or 2nd-line scoring center. His size in front of the net in the offensive and defensive zones is a huge minus for him. Because of this, he really is more ideal as a playmaking winger or a checking winger to a bigger center. Either that, or he has to be between two large physical wingers and at least one of them need to be able to snipe a bit. (I don't see us getting two large, effective forwards in here for at least 1-2 more years as the result of prospects maturing. I'm doubting that management shocks us by adding size and talent upfront, but for the sake of the thread I'll continue.)

If Nielsen is our de facto 2nd line center, then one would hope that we'll be acquiring a 3rd line center who will be able to win draws, skate, have size/grit, and be defensively responsible. Being capable of throwing down would be a huge plus. My guess would be that there will be more options available for the checking center slot and the payment for that asset will be cheaper in general. As fans, we'll just have to deal with the (most likely) fact that our forward mix is iffy until prospects mature or the team spends actual money to improve. (Bringing back Parenteau makes goalscoring, size and skating down the middle even more of a requirement.)

There's too much size and/or mobility in the top-6 and backend of many of our divisional opponents. The only team that we can physically match up with is actually the Rangers (who often make up for it with a larger bottom-6 forward group than ours.)

Since we're destined to be cheap, I would bet that our best case scenario for the upcoming season would be something like this:

Add sizable checking center.

Add #5 and #6 d-men with size; at least one has to be somewhat mobile. Reese or Staios is retained as a #7.

The 1st and 2nd lines are identical to the end of the season (unless PAP prices himself out or what too long of a term. In that case, you'll see another young player getting too much ice on the Nielsen line with KO going to the top line. As odd as it sounds, that may not be the worst thing for us. Almost anybody who would step into the 2nd line winger slot would at least have some size.)

How could the above play out?
Considering the past, watch us get Komisarek for peanuts in a trade. (Higher cap than actual salary, something our team is a fan of.)

Perhaps they'll splurge and try to get Bryan Allen. Adds size to the bottom-6. (Komisarek is like a more physical Eaton. Allen at least has some mobility with his size to make up a bit for Komisarek. Clearing the net and striking some fear into forwards is more important than offense for this kind of pairing.)

You can never tell who will come here or what they will cost, but maybe try to add someone like Stoll for the checking slot.

I bet they try hard to re-sign PAP. Let's hope it isn't for too long of a term as we'll have bigger wingers here before we'll have a goal scoring center. Our top line was weak within the division. The rest of our team actually picked up the slack in some of those games against teams that aren't the Rangers. That's a big reason we're on the outside looking in. Our division isn't looking to get any easier in the near future. We'll need to adapt to that.

6 games versus Pittsburgh - NOT A SINGLE POINT FOR THE JT, PAP or Moulson (and a big fat combined -18.) I didn't try hard to double check that math, but I know the points are definitely zero. Quite frankly, our secondary scoring picked up when our primary scoring failed this season. When our primary scoring picked up, our secondary scoring often failed all too often. I hope they realize how poor our match-ups have been during divisional play. The moves I mention at least somewhat alleviate the problem (while only time or a legitimate, expensive addition will solve it.)

Jeff Carter with less risk on his contract (because we have such great luck with those kinds of things) and baggage would have been ideal for this squad. If our squad wasn't so young, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal the questions about his character. Unfortunately, we have far too many important players who are aged 18-24. We also didn't have Jack Johnson to trade.

Yeah, I write too much and this is at least partially off-topic. This would be par for the course behavior.

Is there a less talented, cheaper Jeff Carter type of player out there? A sizable center who can regularly pot 20-25 goals, who isn't afraid of the net or contact, who can skate and isn't brutal in the dot. Oh, and they can't be too expensive to obtain in assets or salary...

,
Mitch

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Old
04-19-2012, 11:12 PM
  #67
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Kesler might be available but it'll cost u a Carter like return. Kesler and Grabner have great chemistry as well, they played together in Vancouver
Yes, ****ing please. I have no idea what the Islanders could give up for him that wouldn't **** over the current club though. I'm not sure we have the NHL depth to entice Vancouver. I doubt Vancouver wants prospects or picks unless they have something in mind for free agency. If that was the case, then I could see it happening (at least from the value of a trade standpoint.)

Kesler would fit in perfectly. Unfortunately, he's probably too expensive for the Islanders to bother trying and I'm not sure of the exact date of his NTC kicking in. (If his NTC is active already, then that's probably the end of even discussing it for fantasy purposes.) I also would bet that Garth would be unwilling to part with enough assets to make the deal work for Vancouver (along with Wang not being happy about our 2nd line center making more than JT for next season.)

Edit - For argument's sake, let's assume that Vancouver wanted to free up cap for other purposes. Let's assume that they'd be willing to trade him for futures of some kind. Let's assume the Islanders aren't afraid to add payroll. (Yes, all of this is unlikely to be the case.)

What would they ask for from the Islanders? Would Vancouver trade Kesler for Nielsen for the cost savings alone? Not sure if that makes sense for the 'Nucks or how that trade would have to be evened out either. If not, what kind of futures would it take for the value to be close?

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Mitch


Last edited by mitchy22: 04-19-2012 at 11:23 PM. Reason: I didn't have enough parentheses.
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Old
04-19-2012, 11:49 PM
  #68
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Derek Roy + 25th pick for NYI First
Uh...no

In fact, I wouldn't do that for your 12th pick and Roy

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04-19-2012, 11:51 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by justabrah View Post
Kesler might be available but it'll cost u a Carter like return. Kesler and Grabner have great chemistry as well, they played together in Vancouver
I'd be interested in Kesler but would have to see the price. Nino's trade value isn't as high as it should be because Rosie O'Donnell buried him on the 4th line all year to share a line with two armless midgets

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04-19-2012, 11:53 PM
  #70
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Roy and our weaker 1st rd pick for your 1st rd pick.
Why would we do this? Roy is an oft injured 2nd liner and the 25th pick is a roll of the dice. Milbury wouldn't make a trade like this

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04-20-2012, 12:57 AM
  #71
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I'd be interested in Kesler but would have to see the price. Nino's trade value isn't as high as it should be because Rosie O'Donnell buried him on the 4th line all year to share a line with two armless midgets
If Canucks are out in the 1st round and Gillis has to make a shake up Kesler might be available due to his NTC doesn't kick in till July 1st. Kesler would be tough for Van to move but I'd entertain Strome and your 2012 1st. His contract is pretty nice but I'm not sure Island want to pay 5 mil, he sounds like everything your looking for gritty, fast, 2 way(won the selke) great at draws, great pker and him and Grabner already have great chemistry and he's very fast skater. Kesler is my fav and it's a long shot he gets moved but if we need a shake up...

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Old
04-20-2012, 12:57 AM
  #72
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The isles could really use a big, gritty, experienced player to center the 2nd line until our best prospects are ready. Top prospects like Strome and Nelson are a couple of years away from having an impact, so this guy need not be very young.

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04-20-2012, 01:20 AM
  #73
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Yes, ****ing please. I have no idea what the Islanders could give up for him that wouldn't **** over the current club though. I'm not sure we have the NHL depth to entice Vancouver. I doubt Vancouver wants prospects or picks unless they have something in mind for free agency. If that was the case, then I could see it happening (at least from the value of a trade standpoint.)

Kesler would fit in perfectly. Unfortunately, he's probably too expensive for the Islanders to bother trying and I'm not sure of the exact date of his NTC kicking in. (If his NTC is active already, then that's probably the end of even discussing it for fantasy purposes.) I also would bet that Garth would be unwilling to part with enough assets to make the deal work for Vancouver (along with Wang not being happy about our 2nd line center making more than JT for next season.)

Edit - For argument's sake, let's assume that Vancouver wanted to free up cap for other purposes. Let's assume that they'd be willing to trade him for futures of some kind. Let's assume the Islanders aren't afraid to add payroll. (Yes, all of this is unlikely to be the case.)

What would they ask for from the Islanders? Would Vancouver trade Kesler for Nielsen for the cost savings alone? Not sure if that makes sense for the 'Nucks or how that trade would have to be evened out either. If not, what kind of futures would it take for the value to be close?

,
Mitch
You don't trade Kesler to clear up money... The guy is a star player and one of the best 2 way players. Vancouver would want something on the lines of Strome and your 1st, trading Kesler would be the Canucks retooling and our prospect pool is fairly weak.

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04-20-2012, 04:18 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by justabrah View Post
You don't trade Kesler to clear up money... The guy is a star player and one of the best 2 way players. Vancouver would want something on the lines of Strome and your 1st, trading Kesler would be the Canucks retooling and our prospect pool is fairly weak.
If Kesler is being traded, it's to clear his cap for other purposes and retool.

He's coming off a poor (by the past two season's standards) offensive regular season and it's hard to predict what his 2nd line numbers would be on the Islanders. I think he'd return to form with JT though. However, I think the Islanders would simply stay the course before using BOTH of their top future assets unless more bodies are coming back in a bigger or separate deal.

So the Islanders pass on the #4 overall and Strome. At the end of last season, I'd say Kesler would command that, but not currently from a team drafting this high that needs even more help than one player.

If the Islanders are willing to trade their 2012 1st and Strome, they'd probably field all offers first and see what comes their way. I'll admit being a bit partial to keeping Strome in general, but I think the Isles need to keep ONE of those assets unless there are two pieces coming back under their control.

#4 overall + Strome + Nielsen (2.75 million + 2 ELCs)
for
Kesler and Bieksa (9.6 million)

That's nearly 7 million in cap for Vancouver. That's clearing cap so you can add a legit free agent, not simply shaving off the top.

#4 overall + Strome + Nielsen + top-end free agent
vs. keeping Kesler + Bieksa

Islanders get a better fit at center or JT's RW and fill a gaping hole on defense.

Probably too high a risk for either team to try. Hard for Vancouver to consider it without knowing they're getting someone like Suter to upgrade Bieksa (or go for Parise.) Islanders ownership would probably love to wait two years and see what happens before adding so much (any ) salary. Edit - Even more importantly with this deal, the Islanders probably open this offer up to the whole league to see what offers would come back. I honestly feel a trade like this would also have to happen after the draft and free agency opening up. (Canucks already get their guy. Islanders strike out again. Islanders willing to add salary for a change. Canucks like the Islanders top pick. The deal happens. I actually think at that point the Islanders might even get something extra coming back their way because the cap space would probably be required for Vancouver. Nothing too exciting, probably a 2nd in 2013 kind of thing.)

,
Mitch


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04-20-2012, 07:16 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
For the TLDR crowd: Read the bold part

If we're going for a 2nd line center, then he needs to be able to score goals, skate, have some size/grit and drive to the net. We have a wealth of playmakers, but lack goal scorers and plus physical attributes in the top-6. Ideally, we could use a 1A center with plus physical attributes (size, skating, strength.) That would go a long way to improving the makeup of the team.

Nielsen would be fine as a 2nd line center, but we're lacking big, goal scoring talented wingers to help out along the boards and reduce some of the burden in front of the net. (Not to mention drive to the net with the puck. Nielsen shies away from that like it's the plague.) We also have a defense that doesn't scare anyone with its size or grittiness.

In our division, Nielsen really isn't the perfect checking or 2nd-line scoring center. His size in front of the net in the offensive and defensive zones is a huge minus for him. Because of this, he really is more ideal as a playmaking winger or a checking winger to a bigger center. Either that, or he has to be between two large physical wingers and at least one of them need to be able to snipe a bit. (I don't see us getting two large, effective forwards in here for at least 1-2 more years as the result of prospects maturing. I'm doubting that management shocks us by adding size and talent upfront, but for the sake of the thread I'll continue.)

If Nielsen is our de facto 2nd line center, then one would hope that we'll be acquiring a 3rd line center who will be able to win draws, skate, have size/grit, and be defensively responsible. Being capable of throwing down would be a huge plus. My guess would be that there will be more options available for the checking center slot and the payment for that asset will be cheaper in general. As fans, we'll just have to deal with the (most likely) fact that our forward mix is iffy until prospects mature or the team spends actual money to improve. (Bringing back Parenteau makes goalscoring, size and skating down the middle even more of a requirement.)

There's too much size and/or mobility in the top-6 and backend of many of our divisional opponents. The only team that we can physically match up with is actually the Rangers (who often make up for it with a larger bottom-6 forward group than ours.)

Since we're destined to be cheap, I would bet that our best case scenario for the upcoming season would be something like this:

Add sizable checking center.

Add #5 and #6 d-men with size; at least one has to be somewhat mobile. Reese or Staios is retained as a #7.

The 1st and 2nd lines are identical to the end of the season (unless PAP prices himself out or what too long of a term. In that case, you'll see another young player getting too much ice on the Nielsen line with KO going to the top line. As odd as it sounds, that may not be the worst thing for us. Almost anybody who would step into the 2nd line winger slot would at least have some size.)

How could the above play out?
Considering the past, watch us get Komisarek for peanuts in a trade. (Higher cap than actual salary, something our team is a fan of.)

Perhaps they'll splurge and try to get Bryan Allen. Adds size to the bottom-6. (Komisarek is like a more physical Eaton. Allen at least has some mobility with his size to make up a bit for Komisarek. Clearing the net and striking some fear into forwards is more important than offense for this kind of pairing.)

You can never tell who will come here or what they will cost, but maybe try to add someone like Stoll for the checking slot.

I bet they try hard to re-sign PAP. Let's hope it isn't for too long of a term as we'll have bigger wingers here before we'll have a goal scoring center. Our top line was weak within the division. The rest of our team actually picked up the slack in some of those games against teams that aren't the Rangers. That's a big reason we're on the outside looking in. Our division isn't looking to get any easier in the near future. We'll need to adapt to that.

6 games versus Pittsburgh - NOT A SINGLE POINT FOR THE JT, PAP or Moulson (and a big fat combined -18.) I didn't try hard to double check that math, but I know the points are definitely zero. Quite frankly, our secondary scoring picked up when our primary scoring failed this season. When our primary scoring picked up, our secondary scoring often failed all too often. I hope they realize how poor our match-ups have been during divisional play. The moves I mention at least somewhat alleviate the problem (while only time or a legitimate, expensive addition will solve it.)

Jeff Carter with less risk on his contract (because we have such great luck with those kinds of things) and baggage would have been ideal for this squad. If our squad wasn't so young, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal the questions about his character. Unfortunately, we have far too many important players who are aged 18-24. We also didn't have Jack Johnson to trade.

Yeah, I write too much and this is at least partially off-topic. This would be par for the course behavior.

Is there a less talented, cheaper Jeff Carter type of player out there? A sizable center who can regularly pot 20-25 goals, who isn't afraid of the net or contact, who can skate and isn't brutal in the dot. Oh, and they can't be too expensive to obtain in assets or salary...

,
Mitch
What about Jarret Stoll? He's capable of 15-20 goals, 40-50 points. Neilen at 2C, Stoll as 3C.

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