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Offseason discussion continued (Contract chart in Post #1)

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Old
04-23-2012, 01:52 PM
  #326
87isgod
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
What would ever give you that impression?
I don't care who the coach is. Although I will admit disco got his pants coached off him this series. If he goes. Oh well in my opinion. You just better have a better option before u replace him. 2 things that changed my mind about things. 1 we overate 87 and 71 that's 2 consecutive series that they have disapeared at times. Giroux never disapeared. 2 its time we stop being afraid to give a young guy a chance to show their potential for a course of a year. I thought t.k. actually had a real good series so maybe this is a bad example however he did have an awful regular season. I think most would agree that tangradi or jeffrey probally have a higher ceiling potential wise. But we overpay to keep kennedy as we are already cap strapped. That's just 1 example. Dupuis had a career regualr season. But what did he bring to the table in the playoffs? 1 lucky goal and another obsolete one in a blowout. Very innefective otherwise especially to be playing with 87. Sullivan was great on pp. Completely useless 5on5 tho.etc etc

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04-23-2012, 02:08 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by 87isgod View Post
I don't care who the coach is. Although I will admit disco got his pants coached off him this series. If he goes. Oh well in my opinion. You just better have a better option before u replace him. 2 things that changed my mind about things. 1 we overate 87 and 71 that's 2 consecutive series that they have disapeared at times. Giroux never disapeared. 2 its time we stop being afraid to give a young guy a chance to show their potential for a course of a year. I thought t.k. actually had a real good series so maybe this is a bad example however he did have an awful regular season. I think most would agree that tangradi or jeffrey probally have a higher ceiling potential wise. But we overpay to keep kennedy as we are already cap strapped. That's just 1 example. Dupuis had a career regualr season. But what did he bring to the table in the playoffs? 1 lucky goal and another obsolete one in a blowout. Very innefective otherwise especially to be playing with 87. Sullivan was great on pp. Completely useless 5on5 tho.etc etc
1. I think it's a lot murkier than "Crosby and Malkin disappeared, Giroux didn't". Crosby and Malkin did their jobs production-wise they just didn't have nearly as good a series as they could have. Credit to the Flyers too. They did an amazing job on us considering we never change our approach whatsoever......

2. I don't have a problem getting young guys in there but I'm not sure what you were expecting. TK plays where exactly? Flip flop him with Dupuis? Okay I'll buy that, but why would you at the time of the series starting? I'm no Bylsma fan but I can't blame him for not making a tweak like that. Jeffrey doesn't look the same after his injury (so far) and Tangradi doesn't produce as of now. I know he had an assist and played pretty well in the blow out but I'm done entertaining people that find a little diamond here and there in his pile of vanilla hockey. We don't have anyone to take TK's place and for his salary he's actually not a bad player at all.

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04-23-2012, 02:13 PM
  #328
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just saw this on the pen blog.
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D_Molinari
The Penguins do not divulge financial details of their operation, but from all indications are making a lot of money from the operation of Consol Energy Center. No team official has ever said anything to suggest that they will stop spending at, or near, the salary-cap ceiling. Indeed, the team's standard practice was for years -- and still might be -- that it budgeted only for two home playoff games.
I do think if we just want to unload him, that someone will take martin.
He was a good defensemen in a different system, and a team with cap room certainly will take him if all we want is a bag of pucks back.

I think the market for Michalek is greater and we can get rid of him as well.

Thing is by clearing 9M in cap and bringing up Despres full time we have 8.3M to spend there. Go get Suter for 6ish M take the other extra and use it to keep Staal. I really don't think Crosby will get much (if any) of a raise. He has all the money he can ever want and is smart enough to not hamstring the franchise.

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:33 PM
  #329
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I was aiming more towards from the start of the season not the start of the playoffs.2nd to say malkin was productive is an overstatement. He was a turnover machine. Couldn't hit the net for crap. I was severly disapointed in him considering he had the better linemates. Sid doesn't get a pass from me either. He was non existent yesterday. And yea I think it is kinda simple I noticed giroux all the time making the rite play etc. There were plenty of shifts that u didn't even realize our big guns were out there. I'm not saying blow it up was just stating that they both have been disapointing in the montreal now this series as well.

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:36 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
just saw this on the pen blog.


I do think if we just want to unload him, that someone will take martin.
He was a good defensemen in a different system, and a team with cap room certainly will take him if all we want is a bag of pucks back.

I think the market for Michalek is greater and we can get rid of him as well.

Thing is by clearing 9M in cap and bringing up Despres full time we have 8.3M to spend there. Go get Suter for 6ish M take the other extra and use it to keep Staal. I really don't think Crosby will get much (if any) of a raise. He has all the money he can ever want and is smart enough to not hamstring the franchise.
I really have my doubts that 6mil will get Suter unless its for a long time.

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:37 PM
  #331
regard
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So heres my first CapGeek roster of the offseason.(Far too soon.)

This would be my "Medium Aggressive Model"

By no means what I think will happen. But its an example of what we could do while being aggressive but not trading a core player, and mostly sticking with our 3 centers.

Not sure the chances of Doan signing somewhere, seems unlikely. I was trying to avoid Parise or Suter, since thats probably a pipedream. After Doan, Whitney would be great if he wanted to leave. Then options thin out drastically.
Maybe one of the players I got rid of could bring in another forward. That or we try out Boyes, Jones, AK or I guess maybe PAP.
Or move Staal up to wing and sign one of Gaustad, Stoll, Kelly, Arnott, Moore or Pahlsson.


FORWARDS
James*Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni*Malkin ($8.700m) / Chris*Stewart ($3.500m)
Pascal*Dupuis ($1.500m) / Sidney*Crosby ($8.700m) / Shane*Doan ($4.500m)
Matt*Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan*Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler*Kennedy ($2.000m)
Dustin*Jeffrey ($0.575m) / Joe*Vitale ($0.550m) / Eric*Tangradi ($0.500m)
Craig*Adams ($0.675m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Barret*Jackman ($3.750m) / Kris*Letang ($3.500m)
Matt*Niskanen ($2.500m) / Zbynek*Michalek ($4.000m)
Brian*Strait ($0.550m) / Deryk*Engelland ($0.567m)
Robert*Bortuzzo ($0.505m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre*Fleury ($5.000m)
Anders*Lindback ($0.900m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,271,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,028,333


Basically Orpik or Martin traded for Stewart.
Orpik or Kunitz traded for Lindback(plus pick if needed)
Martin or Kunitz traded either way.
Lovejoy traded for pick or waived

Sign Jackman to replace Orpik
(Not sure how we could trade a Dman to St Louis then sign Jackman out from under them, theres other options for his spot, but hes my preferance at the moment. lol Not sure what he'd demand.)
Sign Doan to replace Kunitz

Despres as first call up, replaces one of Niskanen, Bortuzzo or Strait at deadline or next season.


Last edited by regard: 04-23-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old
04-23-2012, 02:53 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by regard View Post
So heres my first CapGeek roster of the offseason.(Far too soon.)

This would be my "Medium Aggressive Model"

By no means what I think will happen. But its an example of what we could do while being aggressive but not trading a core player, and mostly sticking with our 3 centers.
Not sure the chances of Doan signing somewhere, seems unlikely. I was trying to avoid Parise or Suter, since thats probably a pipedream. After Doan, Whitney would be great if he wanted to leave. Then options thin out drastically. Maybe one of the players I got rid of could bring in another forward. That or we try out Boyes, Jones, AK or I guess maybe PAP.


FORWARDS
James*Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni*Malkin ($8.700m) / Chris*Stewart ($3.500m)
Pascal*Dupuis ($1.500m) / Sidney*Crosby ($8.700m) / Shane*Doan ($4.500m)
Matt*Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan*Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler*Kennedy ($2.000m)
Dustin*Jeffrey ($0.575m) / Joe*Vitale ($0.550m) / Eric*Tangradi ($0.500m)
Craig*Adams ($0.675m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Barret*Jackman ($3.750m) / Kris*Letang ($3.500m)
Matt*Niskanen ($2.500m) / Zbynek*Michalek ($4.000m)
Brian*Strait ($0.550m) / Deryk*Engelland ($0.567m)
Robert*Bortuzzo ($0.505m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre*Fleury ($5.000m)
Anders*Lindback ($0.900m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,271,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,028,333


Basically Orpik or Martin traded for Stewart.
Orpik or Kunitz traded for Lindback(plus pick if needed)
Martin or Kunitz traded either way.
Lovejoy traded for pick or waived

Sign Jackman to replace Orpik
(Not sure how we could trade a Dman to St Louis then sign Jackman out from under them, theres other options for his spot, but hes my preferance at the moment. lol Not sure what he'd demand.)
Sign Doan to replace Kunitz

Despres as first call up, replaces one of Niskanen, Bortuzzo or Strait at deadline or next season.
Don't think Kunitz will be traded. I am thinking it will be Staal, Martin, TK, Tangradi and Strait gone.

Staal will bring back a nice package and sign a long term $6.5-7 million a year contract with someone.

Could see TK and Strait going to St. Louis for Stewart.

Maybe Orpik gets gone too. Think he is the old guard and needs to go for younger players who will buy in.

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:58 PM
  #333
regard
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Originally Posted by hockeyisgood View Post
Don't think Kunitz will be traded. I am thinking it will be Staal, Martin, TK, Tangradi and Strait gone.

Staal will bring back a nice package and sign a long term $6.5-7 million a year contract with someone.

Could see TK and Strait going to St. Louis for Stewart.

Maybe Orpik gets gone too. Think he is the old guard and needs to go for younger players who will buy in.
I dont have any reason to think Kunitz would be traded either. I was just thinking Kunitz/Orpik for Doan/Jackman would be an upgrade, and maybe bring in new hungrier players who will hopefully be more consistant. Like I said it was a type of shakeup scenario where we dont trade any of the core guys.

Staal could go for a package, but I havnt seen any ideal scenarios yet. What type of Carter/Richards return that we could get that would be worth it.

Also not that I think Stewarts value is incredibly high or anything but St Louis has no need/room for Tyler Kennedy and I dont see them needing more depth Dmen.

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04-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #334
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Staal won't be dealt this offseason unless someone offers RS a boatload for him, or he makes it known he won't be signing an extension.

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04-23-2012, 03:16 PM
  #335
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Staal won't be dealt this offseason unless someone offers RS a boatload for him, or he makes it known he won't be signing an extension.
I think he will get some huge offers. I think he will get more than Richards or Carter.

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04-23-2012, 03:21 PM
  #336
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Brad Boyes would look good on Crosby's wing, in my opinion. Didn't they play on the same line at the World Championships in like, 06? Might be wrong on that. Either way, he's a right shot, he's skilled, he's a former 40 goal scorer and he's coming off a terrible season so he should be relatively cheap.
<---- Said this at the deadline when people were going ga ga over AK, Stewart, and Ott.

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04-23-2012, 03:23 PM
  #337
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Staal won't be dealt this offseason unless someone offers RS a boatload for him, or he makes it known he won't be signing an extension.
Or he refuses to sign this summer b/c he/agent want Staal to play a full season with how many games he's missed the last two years. Especially if Shero isn't willing to offer 6 mil.

Neal's contract is the low end of what he should expect come negotiations.

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04-23-2012, 03:36 PM
  #338
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Regarding Matt Niskanen. I take it that everyone want's to see him resigned if it's around $2.25-$2M?

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04-23-2012, 03:38 PM
  #339
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People sure have disparate ideas on what Staals worth. lol

I wonder if something like Kulimen+Torontos 1st would be possible if we did trade him. Or Setoguchi+??

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04-23-2012, 03:38 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Or he refuses to sign this summer b/c he/agent want Staal to play a full season with how many games he's missed the last two years. Especially if Shero isn't willing to offer 6 mil.

Neal's contract is the low end of what he should expect come negotiations.
Uh, misssed the 2nd part of my post?

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04-23-2012, 03:39 PM
  #341
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Regarding Matt Niskanen. I take it that everyone want's to see him resigned if it's around $2.25-$2M?
I think $2 million should be enough, wouldn't mind keeping Nisky, he's young and improving, turned out to be a key part of the trade.

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04-23-2012, 03:40 PM
  #342
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Regarding Matt Niskanen. I take it that everyone want's to see him resigned if it's around $2.25-$2M?
I sure do. I think he's 4/5 capable. He's consistent too which is something I like. He can also do a decent job on the powerplay.

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04-23-2012, 03:41 PM
  #343
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Staal looked pretty damn good this year and came to play in the playoffs. Meanwhile our two megastars failed to take control of things.

Just to spur some conversation - Malkin for Shea Weber? Addresses the defense in a big way, sends a message. And I bet our PP is more functional without the Crosby/Malkin two minute piddle paddle.

Neal - Crosby - Boyes
Kunitz - Staal - Kennedy/Dupuis
Cooke - trade/sign - Kennedy/Dupuis
Tangradi - Vitale - UFA

Orpik - Letang
Michalek - Weber
Engelland - Despres
Strait

Fleury (gulp)
upgraded backup

Move Martin for a 3rd line center, or perhaps a forward project or pics. Don't think Orpik will be moved right now though his lease has to be shortening.

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04-23-2012, 03:44 PM
  #344
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I really have my doubts that 6mil will get Suter unless its for a long time.
For reference, Chara got a 7 year deal with a 6.9M cap hit on his last contract.

I can hope that he comes here any way.
Certainly better use then 9M spent on Michalek/Martin.

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04-23-2012, 03:46 PM
  #345
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Uh, misssed the 2nd part of my post?
? Just stating a reason why he wouldn't want to sign. He's been injured and unless Shero is willing to look at what he was on pace for the last two seasons, I'd tell Shero I want to play a full season and sign next year.

Not arguing with you.

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04-23-2012, 03:47 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Staal looked pretty damn good this year and came to play in the playoffs. Meanwhile our two megastars failed to take control of things.

Just to spur some conversation - Malkin for Shea Weber? Addresses the defense in a big way, sends a message. And I bet our PP is more functional without the Crosby/Malkin two minute piddle paddle.

Neal - Crosby - Boyes
Kunitz - Staal - Kennedy/Dupuis
Cooke - trade/sign - Kennedy/Dupuis
Tangradi - Vitale - UFA

Orpik - Letang
Michalek - Weber
Engelland - Despres
Strait

Fleury (gulp)
upgraded backup

Move Martin for a 3rd line center, or perhaps a forward project or pics. Don't think Orpik will be moved right now though his lease has to be shortening.
What message is that? Carry the team for an entire season when the face of the franchise is out. Win Art Ross by 10+ pts...get traded...



There is no possible way this team can be a better overall team if we move Malkin. there is no cap feasible return that will make up for his loss.

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04-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #347
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I think that people expecting to see 1/3 of the roster overhauled are in for a disappointing offseason. I'm not even 100% sure we see Martin get shipped out. I won't be surprised if Shero gives him one more year to turn things around.

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04-23-2012, 03:52 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by regard View Post
People sure have disparate ideas on what Staals worth. lol

I wonder if something like Kulimen+Torontos 1st would be possible if we did trade him. Or Setoguchi+??
So we want to trade the only center that showed up this series? That makes sense. If memory serves me correct staal played awesome b4 being hurt in the montreal series as well. Staal has turned a corner in his career he's putting all facets of his game together.I'm not trading him for anything less than a kings ransom. Regular season point totals don't do anything for me. I want players that show up in the playoffs.

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04-23-2012, 03:56 PM
  #349
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For reference, Chara got a 7 year deal with a 6.9M cap hit on his last contract.

I can hope that he comes here any way.
Certainly better use then 9M spent on Michalek/Martin.
that was re-signing with a team. If there's a bidding war Suter could easily see Chara money as a UFA.

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04-23-2012, 03:57 PM
  #350
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So we want to trade the only center that showed up this series? That makes sense. If memory serves me correct staal played awesome b4 being hurt in the montreal series as well. Staal has turned a corner in his career he's putting all facets of his game together.I'm not trading him for anything less than a kings ransom. Regular season point totals don't do anything for me. I want players that show up in the playoffs.
I totally agree with this. Only caveat I would mention is that being the first or second scoring option is worlds apart from being the third option in terms of how much attention you get from the other team. He produces in the playoffs that's for sure and I would always point that out first and foremost when talking about his worth to the team, but it's also relevant that he's got it pretty good drawing the worst matchup. A king's ransom would get me interested too though. It'd have to be exactly what the Penguins wanted, but I think it's pretty damn possible. Teams are starving for centers.

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