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Offseason discussion continued (Contract chart in Post #1)

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Old
04-20-2012, 02:20 PM
  #51
Jag68Sid87
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I really want to see Stewart here, but Orpik is worth a hell of a lot more than him at this point. They're more desperate to shore things up on the LD than we are in finding a scoring winger.
Just so we're clear, you're saying no to Chris Stewart for Brooks Orpik?

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04-20-2012, 02:29 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
No, I'm not selling them short. Doesn't mean I don't like them, but you have to look at their place in the entire league not just on the team. Kennedy's totals really are okay enough and his salary is definitely manageable, but he's just not that desirable in the grand scheme of things. Jeffrey is a decent enough prospect, but that's all he is currently especially after his injury. If Bernier was known to be available I have no doubt there would be at least 5 if not 10 teams trying to top each others offers, which would involve more notable pieces than the guys we're talking about.
Fair enough. One day I might get the valuation concept
(and that's a poke at myself, not anyone else btw)

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04-20-2012, 02:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Just so we're clear, you're saying no to Chris Stewart for Brooks Orpik?
Valuewise, yes. Orpik is still worth a hell of alot more imo. But as I said before, I really like what Stewart can bring. He'd flourish here.

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04-20-2012, 02:34 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Just so we're clear, you're saying no to Chris Stewart for Brooks Orpik?
You weren't asking me, but I wouldn't do that either.

Because Stewart is as unreliable and there are signs this year that his problems may be attitude / work ethic problems. He definitely has the potential but the guy makes me nervous. Considering our problem is physicality on D, not lack of a power forward, I would not trade Orpik for him unless I was sure Orpik's decline had begun and this wasn't some sort of burn out / injury related thing.

(see my earlier post...)

I WOULD trade a lesser D and someone like Kennedy for Stewart but I would not further decrease our defense's physicality unless we could get Jackman as part of the deal.

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04-20-2012, 02:41 PM
  #55
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Stewart is 7 years younger than Orpik. Even if I didn't think Orpik's decline had already begun, which I do, it's a deal you have to take. St. Louis would never do this. Orpik isn't worth 'a hell of a lot more than this'. We're over-valuing our own again.

We have Engelland for the third pairing. Orpik's no longer top four material. If this deal were ever offered to us (it wouldn't), Shero should take it and run.

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04-20-2012, 02:43 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I WOULD trade a lesser D and someone like Kennedy for Stewart but I would not further decrease our defense's physicality unless we could get Jackman as part of the deal.
Jackman is slated to be a UFA. Sign him then trades Orpickt.

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04-20-2012, 02:45 PM
  #57
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Jackman is slated to be a UFA. Sign him then trades Orpickt.
Haha.

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Old
04-20-2012, 02:49 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Stewart is 7 years younger than Orpik. Even if I didn't think Orpik's decline had already begun, which I do, it's a deal you have to take. St. Louis would never do this. Orpik isn't worth 'a hell of a lot more than this'. We're over-valuing our own again.

We have Engelland for the third pairing. Orpik's no longer top four material. If this deal were ever offered to us (it wouldn't), Shero should take it and run.
You're nuts if you don't think they'd trade Stewart for Orpik. Orpik has had one bad year. And it's more than likely due to injury. If we bow out in the 1st round and a shakeup is in the cards, then I'd move him.

Having Orpik and Jackman paired with their stud D-men is a great scenario for them. Especially with Orpik's salary.

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04-20-2012, 03:04 PM
  #59
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Well then I guess I'm nuts then. Because Orpik's no longer capable of being a top four defenseman.

The Flyers aren't getting worse, they're only getting better with all their youth. He's not able to handle them anymore.

One bad year? I think it's more a lengthy run that is coming to an end. Happens to everyone.

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04-20-2012, 03:05 PM
  #60
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Yeah, I still think Orpik has pretty good value. Certainly not the value he once had, but he'd still bring a decent return.

I have no idea what Stewart's value is though. It literally could be anything. I think the Blues have soured on him and will likely move him rather than pay whatever he gets in RFA. You could argue they'll be selling low and that could be the case, but there could also easily be a team that's a believer in his game and may pay a steep price to get him.

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Old
04-20-2012, 03:12 PM
  #61
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Well then I guess I'm nuts then. Because Orpik's no longer capable of being a top four defenseman.

The Flyers aren't getting worse, they're only getting better with all their youth. He's not able to handle them anymore.

One bad year? I think it's more a lengthy run that is coming to an end. Happens to everyone.
The guy was in the Olympics just two years ago playing a prominent role on their PK. The Blues would trade Stewart for him without thinking twice. Especially with the market for top 4 D-men the way it is. They can't afford to be picky especially with their salary budget.

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04-20-2012, 03:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
TK is far more valuable than Jeffrey. Lumping them into the same tier of player is nonsense.

There are plenty of teams that would value what TK brings. SJ still lacks scoring depth and a player of his ilk that brings energy every shift. Could allow them to play Torrey Mitchell as a third wheel in the top 6.
Of course. I was only doing it for the purpose of that conversation. TK isn't a significant piece in a deal for a young stud.

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Old
04-20-2012, 04:39 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Of course. I was only doing it for the purpose of that conversation. TK isn't a significant piece in a deal for a young stud.
Eh. I think he could help make a deal for a big name. Again, he was a huge piece of our third line in our cup run. GMs took notice of that. And has produced at a 40+ pt pace for most his career. He's a valuable asset.

Orpik+TK could net us a significant return imo.

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04-20-2012, 05:47 PM
  #64
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I'd do Orpik for Stewart+Cole. Pens get Crosby's long term winger+a physical Dman.

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04-20-2012, 09:32 PM
  #65
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Staal for wingerzzz????

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04-20-2012, 09:58 PM
  #66
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Staal for Ryan+Perry.

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Old
04-20-2012, 11:08 PM
  #67
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Wings fans are pining hard for a Franzen/Staal swap - yikes. What do people think about bringing back Sullivan? He's been up and down but I think I would consider retaining him on a similar deal. He's actually gotten much better as the season's gone on and has stayed healthy, very interesting.

Also, why would it cost Orpik to nab Chris Stewart? He has been awful for the Blues and his RFA qualifying offer will be fairly pricy. I think at this point you'd have to really think about what kind of player he actually is rather than what he could be.

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Old
04-20-2012, 11:31 PM
  #68
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My vote on Sully is to keep him around. I'd also like to see Niskanen stick around.

When it comes to Orpik and Martin, although I don't want to get everyone in an uproar and calling me insane, but I think they'd be making a mistake by not calling Long Island with these two. I know for a FACT that if the Pens don't want something ridiculous in return (mainly looking to dump salary/Martins contract), the Islanders will jump all over it.

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Old
04-21-2012, 12:24 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
Wings fans are pining hard for a Franzen/Staal swap - yikes. What do people think about bringing back Sullivan? He's been up and down but I think I would consider retaining him on a similar deal. He's actually gotten much better as the season's gone on and has stayed healthy, very interesting.

Also, why would it cost Orpik to nab Chris Stewart? He has been awful for the Blues and his RFA qualifying offer will be fairly pricy. I think at this point you'd have to really think about what kind of player he actually is rather than what he could be.
They can keep pining.

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Old
04-21-2012, 12:27 AM
  #70
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Wings fans are pining hard for a Franzen/Staal swap - yikes.
Franzen's a guy I'd be intrigued with because he can score, and because he's good in front of the net. But I don't think he's good enough to justify trading Staal. Now if it was Franzen and Kronwall coming back, that would be a tougher decision.

Quote:
What do people think about bringing back Sullivan? He's been up and down but I think I would consider retaining him on a similar deal. He's actually gotten much better as the season's gone on and has stayed healthy, very interesting.
If he accepts the same salary, or even less, I wouldn't mind it. He's no longer big producer, but he's good enough on the PP to produce around 45 points, and add a bit more playmaking to the lineup for cheap. One year deal, though. No way I want Shero going beyond that.

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04-21-2012, 02:26 AM
  #71
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i think TK and Jeffery are the definition of take-em-or-leave-em forwards. they're nice to have around, but i don't think any team is going to trade their top three prospects at any position for them. especially someone like Bernier. TK and Jeffery are not garbage, but they're aren't being called garbage, they're being called not valuable enough to be valued as anything more than deal-lubricants.

Orpik for Brown might work value wise. but i don't see the incentive for trading their captain and playoff-production leader (regardless of rumors). plus i think LA is very happy with the composition of it's defense (as evidenced by the Jack Johnson trade) they think they have the perfect mixture of offensive-minded and defensive-minded defensemen.

Blues fans do seem to be all over Orpik for Stewart thou. I think with Orpik his value around the league is much higher than his play justifies.
Most teams would love to have a 45-point player on their third line.

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Old
04-21-2012, 03:18 AM
  #72
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Most teams would love to have a 45-point player on their third line.
Tyler Kennedy is now a sacred cow? no one is impugning his honor. i'm glad he's around but i sincerely doubt that Shero will ever find himself talking about a deal that hinges on TFK's availability.

Q: what's TK's favorite James Brown song?
A: Licking Stick


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Old
04-21-2012, 05:59 AM
  #73
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I think it's quite clear that the only change needs to be the trade of Paul Martin.

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04-21-2012, 09:23 AM
  #74
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If I had to put money on it right now I'd say that Shero views this season as a mulligan for Martin and he's back next year.
Agreed.

He really has been pathetic though, and a puckmover like him would probably, in the very least, net a couple draft picks. That would make Pittsburgher's happy.

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04-21-2012, 09:29 AM
  #75
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I'll also say another thing...I don't envy Ray Shero's position the next 3-4 years. He's coming up on another one of those points in his career where it will define him as a GM. Not only does he have to try to re-sign our core players, he also has to deal with the balancing act on our blueline, and prepare for a salary cap drop.

High stress for Rejean.

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