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Offseason discussion continued (Contract chart in Post #1)

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:19 PM
  #101
ericstrat1
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Orpik was, but Michalek wasn't on their level. He wasn't good, but he was better than them.
Trade Fleury for a bag of pucks and pay some team millions of dollars to take Paul Martin. But I think the Pens organization has group-think denialism issues with regard to both of those guys. And Bylsma will be back, I don't think that's in any doubt at all. Maybe someone can teach him how to manage lines in home games to get the league MVP away from the other team's shutdown center.

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04-22-2012, 03:20 PM
  #102
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Sullivan had a couple phenomenal games, and although he is a good guy to lead the PP breakout, and setup in general, the bad outweighs the good. Tonight was a perfect example. First goal was 100% his fault.

Funny what a difference a year makes, last playoffs we couldn't score a goal for the lives of us, but were solid defensively. This year was a complete turnaround. I honestly think the same D corp will return next year, and they deserve another chance. Every single top 4 guy had pretty severe injuries at some point of the season much like Malkin did in his off year when he had a bum shoulder. If they are garbage next year, then I will buy into a minor defensive overhaul.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:28 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Not that I disagree, but Orpik and Michalek were just as bad.

At this point I think it makes sense to look at moving all three of them. Despres and Strait were no worse (I would argue Strait was actually better). With Morrow, Harrington, and Bortuzzo all pushing for jobs behind them you're looking at $10-11 million in savings for a defense that will at least be the same quality we saw this year.
Maybe they were just as bad. But Martin has no place on this team. With Letang and Niskanen, and Despres and Morrow in the system, we need no more puck-moving d-men. At least Orpik and Michalek fill roles we kinda need, Orpik being a physical guy and Michalek being a shot blocker and PKer... and their cap hits are less than Martin's.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:39 PM
  #104
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Getting mighty tired about how we need Orpik because he's physical. Dude has been a pylon for awhile but only now are people calling him out on it. I'd argue that he hasn't been a whole lot better than Martin this past season but because everyone is a fan of him and he's been here so long, they were reluctant to say anything bad about him.

Unlike Martin however, we can still get a good return for him if they explore that possibility. And honesty, I hope they do before it's too late and his value becomes Martin-like.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:41 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
I'd do Orpik for Stewart+Cole. Pens get Crosby's long term winger+a physical Dman.
Thank you. That would be ideal.

I am for doing that and trading Staal and Martin to Winnipeg for Sheifele, Kane and Burmistrov.

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04-22-2012, 03:46 PM
  #106
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That is an awful package for brown/Bernier. Enough of these proposals they're embarrassing. You gotta give to get. Brown is their captain who is currently leading the charge against the Nucks and Bernier is an "A" goalie prospect. You're giving them a decent defender and two take em or leave em forwards.
Brown won't be their captain for long.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:49 PM
  #107
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While I wouldn't say I want to overhaul the team, the Pens are clearly stale. They seem to be OK with playing well and don't have that hunger from 08/09.

Zib and Martin make a ton of money and are pretty much glorified role players. I understand that the Pens needed to get better 5 on 5 and Letang wasn't Letang back then but to shell out close to $10 mill for these guys was insane. What are we going to do this offseason... draft 3 more defenseman and still worry about the defense for next year? I like Shero but I hate that Preds way of thinking. I almost want to say to get rid of Martin and send him to the glue factory but that just won't work... glue has to harden.

Also while I like Kunitz, I wanted to hang him from a noose this series. Talk about a rally killer.

DB I'm kind of up in the air about. He seemed to run a nice structured team last year but the Pens just ended up being a mess this year. What the hell happened? Pens out in the first round is what happened. To be honest I'm thinking the call to play sloppy, loosy goosy hockey came from someone else. Wonder who?

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:50 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
While I wouldn't say I want to overhaul the team, the Pens are clearly stale. They seem to be OK with playing well and don't have that hunger from 08/09.

Zib and Martin make a ton of money and are pretty much glorified role players. I understand that the Pens needed to get better 5 on 5 and Letang wasn't Letang back then but to shell out close to $10 mill for these guys was insane. What are we going to do this offseason... draft 3 more defenseman and still worry about the defense for next year? I like Shero but I hate that Preds way of thinking. I almost want to say to get rid of Martin and send him to the glue factory but that just won't work... glue has to harden.

Also while I like Kunitz, I wanted to hang him from a noose this series. Talk about a rally killer.

DB I'm kind of up in the air about. He seemed to run a nice structured team last year but the Pens just ended up being a mess this year. What the hell happened? Pens out in the first round is what happened. To be honest I'm thinking the call to play sloppy, loosy goosy hockey came from someone else. Wonder who?
You are right about the "stale" feeling. Philly showed what an overhaul can do.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:51 PM
  #109
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I, for one, would totally welcome Jagr back if he wanted back.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:52 PM
  #110
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Orpiks play this season has really taken a nosedive. I was hoping to see him dial it up in the postseason but he just doesn''t have it anymore. The dial is broken.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:53 PM
  #111
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I want this:

Staal
Martin
Tangradi
For
Scheifele
Kane
Burmistrov

Orpik
TK
Strait
For
Chris Stewart
Ian Cole
Ty Rattie

Kane (4) – Crosby (8.7) – Stewart (3.25)
Kunitz (3.725) – Malkin (8.7) – Neal (5)
Cooke (1.8) – Scheifele (1.625) – Burmistrov (1.5)
Adams (.675) – Vitale (.55) – Dupuis (1.5)
Jeffrey (.575)

Letang (3.5) – Michalek (4)
Suter (6.5) – Despres (.84)
Cole (1.3) – Engelland (.567)
Morrow (.925)/Bortuzzo (.6)

Fluery (5)
Johnson (.5)

Salary - 65.332

I think Kane would be a solid fit with Crosby.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:54 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
Orpiks play this season has really taken a nosedive. I was hoping to see him dial it up in the postseason but he just doesn''t have it anymore. The dial is broken.
along with the rest of the d.......atleast hes not alone.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:55 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyisgood View Post
I want this:

Staal
Martin
Tangradi
For
Scheifele
Kane
Burmistrov

Orpik
TK
Strait
For
Chris Stewart
Ian Cole
Ty Rattie

Kane (4) – Crosby (8.7) – Stewart (3.25)
Kunitz (3.725) – Malkin (8.7) – Neal (5)
Cooke (1.8) – Scheifele (1.625) – Burmistrov (1.5)
Adams (.675) – Vitale (.55) – Dupuis (1.5)
Jeffrey (.575)

Letang (3.5) – Michalek (4)
Suter (6.5) – Despres (.84)
Cole (1.3) – Engelland (.567)
Morrow (.925)/Bortuzzo (.6)

Fluery (5)
Johnson (.5)

Salary - 65.332

I think Kane would be a solid fit with Crosby.
I would feel sick if that was our roster next season. Talk about a Step backwards.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:58 PM
  #114
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The team definitely needs a shakeup

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:59 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by hockeyisgood View Post
I want this:

Staal
Martin
Tangradi
For
Scheifele
Kane
Burmistrov
No way the Jets do this.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:02 PM
  #116
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I want a trade that will shock me, almost in the way of Richards to LA. But i dont want any of Letang,Crosby,Neal,Malkin,Fluery, or morrow and depress moved.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:03 PM
  #117
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No way the Jets do this.
No way the Pens do that. That's a horrible trade for the Pens.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:06 PM
  #118
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Kuntiz-Malkin-Neal
xxxxx-Crosby-Dupuis
Tangradi-Staal-Kennedy
Cooke-Vitale-xxxxx
xxxxx

Orpik-Letang
Despres-Michalek
Strait-Niskanen
Engo

Fleury
xxxxx


This is what Shero should be looking at.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:07 PM
  #119
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Number 1 priority is to get an NHL caliber backup. Trading Fleury would be nice too.

Trading for Halak would make a lot of sense. But i doubt St Louis would let him go cheaply.

This is delusional, dude. 100% of Halak and Elliot's success this year is due to STL's excellent defensive system and depth under Hitchcock. End of story.

Either one of those guys, with this defense... would've gotten the **** kicked out of them. Maybe Rinne and Quick would've been able to weather the onslaught. Every other goalie would've been trounced the first couple games.

I agree 100% we need a legit backup so that when Flower brain farts or when our D is beat up and weak, we have a gamer who can go in there and steady the ship for a game or two. That's all we need. Flower is fine. When he is confident in his D he plays well. When he's not he is mental.

Now, you can argue that's reason to trade him, to which my reply is, who is substantially better than Fleury in situations where the D is bad, who we can get without selling the farm?

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04-22-2012, 04:10 PM
  #120
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I honestly think our problem lies within just not enough size and the fact our 4th line has been completely lackluster this year.

I think signing a few guys like Jim Slater, Brandon Prust, or Jay McClement. I know these guys aren't the "WOW Factor" any of us want, but it'd be a good start to the off-season in the right direction. Brings new fire, and new veteran presence to the club.

On D, obviously one of Orpik/Michalek/Martin should go, but if not, I'd still invest in D Bryan Allen. He'd bring a lot of elements to this team that are missing.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:11 PM
  #121
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I don't know how we are going to get rid of that Martin contract.
Hopeful that we can find a team needing to get to the cap floor and wanting a vet like florida did this year.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:12 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Mantis Toboggan MD View Post
Kuntiz-Malkin-Neal
xxxxx-Crosby-Dupuis
Tangradi-Staal-Kennedy
Cooke-Vitale-xxxxx
xxxxx

Orpik-Letang
Despres-Michalek
Strait-Niskanen
Engo

Fleury
xxxxx


This is what Shero should be looking at.
I think it's pretty much unanamous, we all want Martin gone next year, but is Shero thinking along the same lines?

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:13 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
This is delusional, dude. 100% of Halak and Elliot's success this year is due to STL's excellent defensive system and depth under Hitchcock. End of story.

Either one of those guys, with this defense... would've gotten the **** kicked out of them. Maybe Rinne and Quick would've been able to weather the onslaught. Every other goalie would've been trounced the first couple games.

I agree 100% we need a legit backup so that when Flower brain farts or when our D is beat up and weak, we have a gamer who can go in there and steady the ship for a game or two. That's all we need. Flower is fine. When he is confident in his D he plays well. When he's not he is mental.

Now, you can argue that's reason to trade him, to which my reply is, who is substantially better than Fleury in situations where the D is bad, who we can get without selling the farm?
I agree 100% about the STL goalies. Rinne and Quick also greatly benefit from strong defensive teams in front of them.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:15 PM
  #124
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1. Get rid of Martin
A. Trade him for nothing
B. Buy him out with the amnesty clause
C. If not Redden him

2. Get rid of Michalek
The same way

3. Trade Staal what?
A. Can't afford to re-sign him
B. 3C mode doesn't work with ineffective wingers and no defenseman
C. Will bring back a lot in trade value (DEFENSE+Goalie)

4. Trade Orpik
A. He sucks, he is a joke of a defenseman. He is supposed to be physical and tough, but he cannot guard the crease, gives up way too much space 1-1, and hits only in the neutral zone on occassion. Worthless, bye.

5. Trade MAF. Release Johnson.
A. MAF=AJ Burnett. Good, but has too many bad meltdowns.
B. Has proven to be way too inconsistent and mentally weak
C. Has trade value, can net a defenseman or winger
D. Johnson suxs

6. Consider moving Kennedy.
A. Has trade value.
B. Allows Sullivan to stay here as a top 9, while making space for Crosby to have a real top 6 winger

7. Ditch Asham, Adams
A. Asham...we know
B. Adams....only kills PK's...and PK has been atroicous in the playoffs the last three seasons


8. Consider firing Ray Shero
Overreact? Maybe. But I am so sick of Ray Shero's two big flaws:
A. Awful farm system. Name the last top 6 (hey even top 9) forward or top 4 defenseman or even back-up goalie it has produced? We have produced a fourth liner (Vitale) and a taxi squad (Tangradi/Jeffrey).
B. His stubborn, refusal to adjust. He continues to bring in season after season mobile, soft defenseman. Refuses to correct and acknowledge you need actual physical defenseman who can cover their own zone and the crease.
-Jay McFee, Jordan Leaopold, Martin, Michalek.
-Drafts Morrow....but NEVER ever goes after in FA, Trade, or Draft a Scuderi/Gill type. This is proof he just does not value nor believe in defenseman. And it is costing us.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:19 PM
  #125
Jax1166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis Toboggan MD View Post
Kuntiz-Malkin-Neal
xxxxx-Crosby-Dupuis
Tangradi-Staal-Kennedy
Cooke-Vitale-xxxxx
xxxxx

Orpik-Letang
Despres-Michalek
Strait-Niskanen
Engo

Fleury
xxxxx


This is what Shero should be looking at.
Awful. Are you serious? That is the same crap we have now.
Absolutely NO responsible, physical defenseman who can mark their man and shut down the other team. Are you kidding me?


XXXXX (Parise type)-Crosby-Dupius
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Gaustad (type)-Sullivan
Vitale/Jeffrey-4th line Center-XXXX(Mike Rupp/Max Talbot type)

Letang-XXXXX (Seidenburg type)
XXXXX (Scuderi type)-XXXXX (Physical defenseman)
XXXXX (Gill type)-Despres
(Engelland)

Rask/Schneider
Hedberg


Otherwise, expect the same. Soft defense, poor goaltending. Team is too complacent, the core needs a shakeup, too soft, not mentally tough.

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