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Offseason discussion continued (Contract chart in Post #1)

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:24 PM
  #126
#66
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Originally Posted by The Old Master View Post
along with the rest of the d.......atleast hes not alone.
Yup... the entire defense sucked and non more than Letang. Give away after give away while playing sloppy all over the ice. I really hope the Pens bring in a defensive coach that can teach him that being active is good but being over active just means your making mistakes.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:24 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
I, for one, would totally welcome Jagr back if he wanted back.
F him, not what we need.

I hope Despres gets a chance. I thought he was our best defenseman tonight, though that's not saying much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigd View Post
I think it's pretty much unanamous, we all want Martin gone next year, but is Shero thinking along the same lines?
Probably not, I think he'll give him another season to try and bounce back.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:27 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
This is delusional, dude. 100% of Halak and Elliot's success this year is due to STL's excellent defensive system and depth under Hitchcock. End of story.

Either one of those guys, with this defense... would've gotten the **** kicked out of them. Maybe Rinne and Quick would've been able to weather the onslaught. Every other goalie would've been trounced the first couple games.

I agree 100% we need a legit backup so that when Flower brain farts or when our D is beat up and weak, we have a gamer who can go in there and steady the ship for a game or two. That's all we need. Flower is fine. When he is confident in his D he plays well. When he's not he is mental.

Now, you can argue that's reason to trade him, to which my reply is, who is substantially better than Fleury in situations where the D is bad, who we can get without selling the farm?
Right, it's no coincidence Elliot has been garbage everywhere he's been, and now all of a sudden he's putting up unreal numbers.

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Originally Posted by Killswitch7187 View Post
I honestly think our problem lies within just not enough size and the fact our 4th line has been completely lackluster this year.

I think signing a few guys like Jim Slater, Brandon Prust, or Jay McClement. I know these guys aren't the "WOW Factor" any of us want, but it'd be a good start to the off-season in the right direction. Brings new fire, and new veteran presence to the club.

On D, obviously one of Orpik/Michalek/Martin should go, but if not, I'd still invest in D Bryan Allen. He'd bring a lot of elements to this team that are missing.
Would love to have Prust.

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04-22-2012, 04:28 PM
  #129
eXile59
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It's time for Shero to be a little pro active. He doesn't need to break the bank but he has to show the players that this is unacceptable.

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04-22-2012, 04:34 PM
  #130
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[QUOTE=Jag68Sid87;48501049]The eyeball test suggests there is no balancing act for the defense. The older vets need to be phased out. The young talent needs to be implemented. Letang, Niskanen, Engelland and Bortuzzo on the right side; Despres, Strait and Morrow on the left. Keep one of Orpik or Michalek for veteran presence. But reduce their minutes and responsibilities. And getting rid of Martin and Lovejoy should be a given at this point.

Despres-Letang
Orpik or Michalek-Niskanen
Morrow-Engelland
Strait, Bortuzzo

Was at the WBS Pens game last night and Bortuzzo at times was a man amongst boys. Seems ready to make the jump. Alex Grant played well also and showed a mean streak, willingness to give the body, and I was pleasantly surprised with him.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:34 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
It's time for Shero to be a little pro active. He doesn't need to break the bank but he has to show the players that this is unacceptable.
Definitely agree. I don't think a major overhaul is in order, but clearly there needs to be some changes. This series exposed some weaknesses, maybe against other teams we could've overcome them, but Philly is a young well constructed team that will be around for awhile. We've got to find a way to match back up.

It will definitely be interesting to see what Shero does this offseason.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:35 PM
  #132
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Offseason objectives should be 1) Get back to size and grit 2) Get some fresh blood, desire 3) If you can move MAF or at least get a backup that we can feel confident in to keep MAF fresh or be the #1.

Don't trade Staal or if you do move him for more of the same on the wing. Move on from Sullivan, Kennedy, Adams, Asham. Find: Gary Roberts, Bill Guerin, etc.

Move Martin & Orpik on defense. I actually think Martin will rebound well with the right team/system, just not with us.

Play the effing young guys, see what you got, keep the team fresh. Despres, Strait, Bortuzzo, Tangradi, Vitale. Find out if these guys can play meaningful roles on this team. Whats the worst that can happen, we finish 6th seed instead of 4th. This team seems dead by the time postseason comes. **** the Art Ross, Presidents cup, 2nd seed, 3rd seed, etc. Enter the playoffs with a team that is fresh.

I think Byslma should go but doubt that he will. This is three years in a row first round exit. It's not all on him, but that doesn't mean he's part of the solution.

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04-22-2012, 04:35 PM
  #133
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F him, not what we need.

I hope Despres gets a chance. I thought he was our best defenseman tonight, though that's not saying much.

Probably not, I think he'll give him another season to try and bounce back.
The defense wasn't great today but all 4 of those shots were stopable. Flower $ucked, plain and simple! I didn't see anything special about Despres limited play that set him apart anyone else.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:37 PM
  #134
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So what goalies are out there that we could bring in with the potential to be the #1?

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04-22-2012, 04:38 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Hell Yeah!!! View Post
Offseason objectives should be 1) Get back to size and grit 2) Get some fresh blood, desire 3) If you can move MAF or at least get a backup that we can feel confident in to keep MAF fresh or be the #1.

Don't trade Staal or if you do move him for more of the same on the wing. Move on from Sullivan, Kennedy, Adams, Asham. Find: Gary Roberts, Bill Guerin, etc.

Move Martin & Orpik on defense. I actually think Martin will rebound well with the right team/system, just not with us.

Play the effing young guys, see what you got, keep the team fresh. Despres, Strait, Bortuzzo, Tangradi, Vitale. Find out if these guys can play meaningful roles on this team. Whats the worst that can happen, we finish 6th seed instead of 4th. This team seems dead by the time postseason comes. **** the Art Ross, Presidents cup, 2nd seed, 3rd seed, etc. Enter the playoffs with a team that is fresh.

I think Byslma should go but doubt that he will. This is three years in a row first round exit. It's not all on him, but that doesn't mean he's part of the solution.
We were bounced in the 2nd round in 2010.

That being said, this is 3 straight series losses. I'm putting this on Bylsma, and his crap defensive system. We don't have the personel or system to shut other teams down.

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04-22-2012, 04:39 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
So what goalies are out there that we could bring in with the potential to be the #1?
Rangers fans are talking about Lundqvist being traded.

What we need is a decent back-up. Fleury is fine as a #1, just needs confidence in himself.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:41 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Rangers fans are talking about Lundqvist being traded.

What we need is a decent back-up. Fleury is fine as a #1, just needs confidence in himself.
I agree we need a decent back-up, and we will probably live or die with Fleury. The only way confidence comes for him is with a defensive system...this team can't play that as assembled.

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04-22-2012, 04:41 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Rangers fans are talking about Lundqvist being traded.

What we need is a decent back-up. Fleury is fine as a #1, just needs confidence in himself.
We need somebody that can play like a #1 if Fleury ***** the bed again. He needs somebody to push him to be better.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:42 PM
  #139
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I wouldn't mind seeing something like this.

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Kennedy-Crosby-Dupuis
Cooke-Staal-Tangradi
Moen-McClement-Tootoo
ex.Vitale

Letang-Orpik
Despres-Niskanen
Strait-Engelland
ex.Michalek

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:44 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
So what goalies are out there that we could bring in with the potential to be the #1?
From free agency, the only ones I'd consider are Vokoun & Harding.

From trades: Bernier, maybe Rask depending on how Boston finishes this postseason, Kipprusoff is probably available if Calgary wants to rebuild, maybe Andres Lindback though unsure on his level of play, can't see Luongo returning to Vancouver, others can't think of at moment

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04-22-2012, 04:44 PM
  #141
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We need somebody that can play like a #1 if Fleury ***** the bed again. He needs somebody to push him to be better.
I don't get the push him to be better part. We go back and forth between he has no confidence and we need someone who is going to threaten him.

How the hell do those two mix, and clearly when this is the topic of conversation with a goalie that has been in the league as long as MAF...we should accept he aint changing.

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04-22-2012, 04:45 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing something like this.

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Kennedy-Crosby-Dupuis
Cooke-Staal-Tangradi
Moen-McClement-Tootoo
ex.Vitale

Letang-Orpik
Despres-Niskanen
Strait-Engelland
ex.Michalek
So you'd change up the fourth line...after getting our ass handed to us?

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04-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  #143
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I think this may be the first offseason where I have to close the account down for a few months.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:47 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
We need somebody that can play like a #1 if Fleury ***** the bed again. He needs somebody to push him to be better.
Vokoun? Harding?

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04-22-2012, 04:47 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Hell Yeah!!! View Post
I don't get the push him to be better part. We go back and forth between he has no confidence and we need someone who is going to threaten him.

How the hell do those two mix, and clearly when this is the topic of conversation with a goalie that has been in the league as long as MAF...we should accept he aint changing.
I'm sick and tired of catering to his fragile psyche. If he's that mentally unstable, then we need a new goalie. Now.

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04-22-2012, 04:47 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Rangers fans are talking about Lundqvist being traded.

What we need is a decent back-up. Fleury is fine as a #1, just needs confidence in himself.
No he is not. Are you serious or do you have blinders?
He stinks.

Look at his stats in the regular season and playoffs.
Medicore, at best. This guy is AJ Burnett and I have had it with his mental softness and annual meltdowns.
He is a HUGE part of the problem and needs to go.

He played so great for us in the Ottawa/Montreal/Tampa/Philly series. Lets give him an extension!!!

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04-22-2012, 04:48 PM
  #147
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Yup... the entire defense sucked and non more than Letang. Give away after give away while playing sloppy all over the ice. I really hope the Pens bring in a defensive coach that can teach him that being active is good but being over active just means your making mistakes.
I agree, Letang is an icredible talent but our stars think they are too good to protect the puck. Too many giveaways by Malkin, Letang, and Crosby. Maybe it's the system that has to change.

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04-22-2012, 04:48 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Vokoun? Harding?
Staal for Schneider.
Sign Hedberg.

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04-22-2012, 04:49 PM
  #149
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Given how close Sid is with Fleury & how much Bylsma toots his horn (which a coach shouldn't tear down his goalie so he should) if Fleury got traded it would make a huge statement.

You can't blame Fleury for everything for sure but...you could make a highlight reel of the weak goals he let in the series alone. The OT goal game 1, the Talbot shorthanded game 2, the shot from the blue line game 6...

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04-22-2012, 04:50 PM
  #150
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Staal for Schneider.
Sign Hedberg.
you don't trade Staal for a relatively unproven goalie.

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