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Offseason discussion continued (Contract chart in Post #1)

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:51 PM
  #151
Shrimper
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Fleury is a number one. He needs a better D in front of him.

Would like us try and get Harding though.

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04-22-2012, 03:54 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Fleury is a number one. He needs a better D in front of him.

Would like us try and get Harding though.
MAF is not a good number 1. He is an inconsistent number 1 who is mentally soft and fragile. His numbers over his career SAY SO.

The Pens need BOTH a better defense and a better goaltending.

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04-22-2012, 03:55 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Given how close Sid is with Fleury & how much Bylsma toots his horn (which a coach shouldn't tear down his goalie so he should) if Fleury got traded it would make a huge statement.

You can't blame Fleury for everything for sure but...you could make a highlight reel of the weak goals he let in the series alone. The OT goal game 1, the Talbot shorthanded game 2, the shot from the blue line game 6...
Well maybe that is what this team needs.
The 92 Pens dealt Recchi and Coffey.
The Flyers dealt Richards and Carter.

Why can't Shero grow some ***** and shake things up, this core is too complacent.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:56 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
1. Get rid of Martin
A. Trade him for nothing
B. Buy him out with the amnesty clause
C. If not Redden him

2. Get rid of Michalek
The same way

3. Trade Staal what?
A. Can't afford to re-sign him
B. 3C mode doesn't work with ineffective wingers and no defenseman
C. Will bring back a lot in trade value (DEFENSE+Goalie)

4. Trade Orpik
A. He sucks, he is a joke of a defenseman. He is supposed to be physical and tough, but he cannot guard the crease, gives up way too much space 1-1, and hits only in the neutral zone on occassion. Worthless, bye.

5. Trade MAF. Release Johnson.
A. MAF=AJ Burnett. Good, but has too many bad meltdowns.
B. Has proven to be way too inconsistent and mentally weak
C. Has trade value, can net a defenseman or winger
D. Johnson suxs

6. Consider moving Kennedy.
A. Has trade value.
B. Allows Sullivan to stay here as a top 9, while making space for Crosby to have a real top 6 winger

7. Ditch Asham, Adams
A. Asham...we know
B. Adams....only kills PK's...and PK has been atroicous in the playoffs the last three seasons


8. Consider firing Ray Shero
Overreact? Maybe. But I am so sick of Ray Shero's two big flaws:
A. Awful farm system. Name the last top 6 (hey even top 9) forward or top 4 defenseman or even back-up goalie it has produced? We have produced a fourth liner (Vitale) and a taxi squad (Tangradi/Jeffrey).
B. His stubborn, refusal to adjust. He continues to bring in season after season mobile, soft defenseman. Refuses to correct and acknowledge you need actual physical defenseman who can cover their own zone and the crease.
-Jay McFee, Jordan Leaopold, Martin, Michalek.
-Drafts Morrow....but NEVER ever goes after in FA, Trade, or Draft a Scuderi/Gill type. This is proof he just does not value nor believe in defenseman. And it is costing us.
Complete overreaction to the lost

1. I agree Martin is gone
2. Z should stay if he is paired with the right partner he's a good stay at home dman
3. Staal is staying we should have the cap room for him he is going to get a raise but not as much as people think. As good as he is people still need to remember he is only a 25 goal scorer.
4. Hate to say it but I also think Orpik is shot. The legs are gone.
5. Fleury is staying were invested and a lot of fans always seems to focus way more on his negatives. And if Johnson is cheap he stays or an AHL goalie will be brought up. The Pens just need to manage him better, I truly think Fleury got burnt out at the end of the season.
6. Kennedy is gone at the trade deadline next year is the last year of his contract. He's getting moved.
7. Asham who knows stays or leaves doesn't really matter. Adams is gone an AHLer should be brought up.
8. Shero is staying and don't know why you want him fired. The best thing for an organization is stability at the top. Last years playoffs come on both stars go down for the season and Asham is the leading goal scores vs Tampa. The fact we took it 7 games was amazing. This year there is a lot to pick on but Shero's big gamble at the trade deadline was waiting for Crosby and who wouldn't take that gamble. But I think it backed fired he clearly wasn't ready for playoff hockey and we thought we could just plug him in the lineup. Again big mistake but one everyone would have taken.

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Old
04-22-2012, 03:56 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
Staal for Schneider.
Sign Hedberg.
Uhhhh no?

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04-22-2012, 03:56 PM
  #156
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Numbers mean nothing most of the time. To me, his biggest problem is the D in front of him. Get Martin out of there.

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04-22-2012, 03:59 PM
  #157
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I think it would be a big mistake to trade Stall unless you could get a kings ransom in return.

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04-22-2012, 04:00 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Numbers mean nothing most of the time. To me, his biggest problem is the D in front of him. Get Martin out of there.
Martin wasn't out there today...

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04-22-2012, 04:03 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Martin wasn't out there today...
I know but he shouldn't be on this team period.

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04-22-2012, 04:05 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I know but he shouldn't be on this team period.
I know, but my point is that Fleury still sucked today.

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04-22-2012, 04:07 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I know, but my point is that Fleury still sucked today.
Sullivan turnover 30 seconds in didn't help. Fleury I personally think was only to blame for 2 of the other goals.

A lot of the goals in the series were down to bad D. Sometimes, a goalie just can't stop the puck no matter what.

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04-22-2012, 04:08 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
1. Get rid of Martin
A. Trade him for nothing
B. Buy him out with the amnesty clause
C. If not Redden him
Not possible, NMC contract.

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04-22-2012, 04:10 PM
  #163
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Now that Nashville is contending I doubt it happens, but...
how sweet would it be if we dumped Martin and maybe Michalek and brought in Suter?

That's the D guy I'd love to see come in.

However, there is something fundamentally wrong with this team.
The compete level just was not there, we flat out got out worked for large parts of this series. Maybe the faith in the goaltender had wavered, which can really play with the heads of the players. Not sure.

But some big move needs done to shake this team up. I don't want to see the deck chairs on the titanic re-arranged for a 4th early exit.

I'd seriously consider trading Malkin if the right king's ransom was out there. The guy is a complete enigma. All you need to do is put a pest on him and he completely gets off his game.

How many wouldn't trade Malkin for Giroux straight up? I certainly would.
Certainly would only trade for something I thought made the team better, but Staal was a much better performer in these playoffs then Malkin. I can't even count the # of dumb penalities he took, and how many shifts he looked like he was stuck in 2nd gear.

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:16 PM
  #164
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#1 offseason priority: Teach James Neal how to cook eggs. That way, Paul Martin will be rendered completely useless and can be traded or thrown off a cliff or something

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04-22-2012, 04:18 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverup View Post
Complete overreaction to the lost

1. I agree Martin is gone
2. Z should stay if he is paired with the right partner he's a good stay at home dman
Z stinks. He has zero offense and is extremely soft. He has been putrid.

3. Staal is staying we should have the cap room for him he is going to get a raise but not as much as people think. As good as he is people still need to remember he is only a 25 goal scorer.
Team cannot afford to pay $6 million for a 3rd line center, which limits the ability to have good top 6 wingers and defenseman.
Staal is easily replaced as a 3rd line, and can net us much needed goaltending and defensive help too.

4. Hate to say it but I also think Orpik is shot. The legs are gone.
5. Fleury is staying were invested and a lot of fans always seems to focus way more on his negatives. And if Johnson is cheap he stays or an AHL goalie will be brought up. The Pens just need to manage him better, I truly think Fleury got burnt out at the end of the season.
Flyer fans were invested in their captain, Richard, and Jeff Carter. Why should we be so into Fleury, a medicore starter, we can't trade him? This is just dumb.

6. Kennedy is gone at the trade deadline next year is the last year of his contract. He's getting moved.
7. Asham who knows stays or leaves doesn't really matter. Adams is gone an AHLer should be brought up.
8. Shero is staying and don't know why you want him fired. The best thing for an organization is stability at the top. Last years playoffs come on both stars go down for the season and Asham is the leading goal scores vs Tampa. The fact we took it 7 games was amazing. This year there is a lot to pick on but Shero's big gamble at the trade deadline was waiting for Crosby and who wouldn't take that gamble. But I think it backed fired he clearly wasn't ready for playoff hockey and we thought we could just plug him in the lineup. Again big mistake but one everyone would have taken.
Shero has an obsession with mobile, soft defenseman and almost wants to go into the Guiness book of records for re-defining what you can do with a defensive corps. He also stinks in drafting.

Flyers went to the cup in 2010, got swept in the 2nd round of 2011...and moved their captain/top winger.
Why can't we make proper moves?
Do we like being complacent as a disappointing 4 seed?

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04-22-2012, 04:19 PM
  #166
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I'm kinda done with Martin and Orpik. I think they both should be traded during off season.

- Trade Martin for bag of pucks
- Trade Orpik for Stewart
- Sign Suter and other our current guys
- Sign Niittymaki (if healthy as ever) or someone for back up.

FORWARDS
Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Chris Stewart ($3.250m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.726m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m)
Craig Adams ($0.675m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.750m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Brian Strait ($0.750m) / (Wildcard: Joe Morrow)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Antero Niittymaki ($0.650m)
------

SALARY CAP: $68,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,757,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,742,333

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04-22-2012, 04:20 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
Well maybe that is what this team needs.
The 92 Pens dealt Recchi and Coffey.
The Flyers dealt Richards and Carter.

Why can't Shero grow some ***** and shake things up, this core is too complacent.
For as much as we'd get a chuckle out of how that organization got complacent and mangled things, the GM Ray Shero reminds me most of is George McPhee.

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04-22-2012, 04:22 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Skillzz View Post
#1 offseason priority: Teach James Neal how to cook eggs. That way, Paul Martin will be rendered completely useless and can be traded or thrown off a cliff or something
I can just imagine him trying to crack open the egg without completely destroying it hundreds of times, let alone the process of making different types of egg. That might have been the only good thing to come from Martin's softness, the ability to crack a ****ing egg.

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04-22-2012, 04:23 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
Shero has an obsession with mobile, soft defenseman and almost wants to go into the Guiness book of records for re-defining what you can do with a defensive corps. He also stinks in drafting.

Flyers went to the cup in 2010, got swept in the 2nd round of 2011...and moved their captain/top winger.
Why can't we make proper moves?
Do we like being complacent as a disappointing 4 seed?
Staal is not going to get 6 mill a year, IMO.

When Martin and Z were signed they were top of the FA class that year. On paper it was huge by the Pens.

Fleury was good all season, he fell in the playoffs but you really just going to ship off a 40 game winner.

Restructuring of the D Corp and the bottom six is more needed than blowing up our core.

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04-22-2012, 04:24 PM
  #170
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I would feel sick if that was our roster next season. Talk about a Step backwards.
How so?

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04-22-2012, 04:25 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
For as much as we'd get a chuckle out of how that organization got complacent and mangled things, the GM Ray Shero reminds me most of is George McPhee.
Hey, give McPhee some credit, he somehow got the #11 pick and 2nd rounder for a goalie he was going to lose to the KHL. That **** still blows my mind. It was a good thing Landeskog was so good for them this year or that would have been a lottery pick without a doubt. That's about all he has going for him lately though.

If only Shero could work some black magic like that for a Martin trade.


Last edited by Sivek: 04-22-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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04-22-2012, 04:25 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
I'm kinda done with Martin and Orpik. I think they both should be traded during off season.

- Trade Martin for bag of pucks
- Trade Orpik for Stewart
- Sign Suter and other our current guys
- Sign Niittymaki (if healthy as ever) or someone for back up.

FORWARDS
Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Chris Stewart ($3.250m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.726m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m)
Craig Adams ($0.675m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.750m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)

Brian Strait ($0.750m) / (Wildcard: Joe Morrow)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Antero Niittymaki ($0.650m)

------

SALARY CAP: $68,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,757,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,742,333
1) What on earth has Tangradi EVER done to warrant being a top nine forward?
2) What has Jeffrey done to prove his an NHL regular?
3) James Wisnewski got $6 million, you think Suter will come cheaper?
4) Niskanen-Michalek, do you know how soft and bad that pairing is?
5) Your bottom four defenseman are horrible.
6) Goaltending is not improved.

=1st round playoff loss again.

You don't get it, Tangradi and others have not PROVEN or EARNED one thing, and our defense is WAY WAY too soft and our goaltending needs major improvements.

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04-22-2012, 04:28 PM
  #173
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I think it would be a big mistake to trade Stall unless you could get a kings ransom in return.
I think the Pens get it.

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04-22-2012, 04:28 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post

How many wouldn't trade Malkin for Giroux straight up? I certainly would.
No way. This was Giroux first season where he could even be compared to Malkin. the way he piled up ton of points against the worst goaltending in playoff history is blinding people.

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04-22-2012, 04:30 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
I'm kinda done with Martin and Orpik. I think they both should be traded during off season.

- Trade Martin for bag of pucks
- Trade Orpik for Stewart
- Sign Suter and other our current guys
- Sign Niittymaki (if healthy as ever) or someone for back up.

FORWARDS
Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Chris Stewart ($3.250m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.726m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m)
Craig Adams ($0.675m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.750m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Brian Strait ($0.750m) / (Wildcard: Joe Morrow)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Antero Niittymaki ($0.650m)
------

SALARY CAP: $68,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,757,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,742,333
I think you are right. Getting Stewart and Suter are two big plausible moves for the Pens. Also a quality back-up goalie.

I am thinking that trading Staal would bring Richards/Carter return, maybe more. So I am in the trade Staal camp.

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