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Would you trade Dan Boyle to shake up the team in the offseason?

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Old
04-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #101
KirbyDots
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I think it would be absurd to trade Boyle. The only way I'd consider it would be if a younger alternative was coming back, IE a Suter or someone you can build around for the future.

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04-23-2012, 01:48 PM
  #102
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Boyler is the second most competitive person on this team next to Joe in my opinion. Even when the game is in the bag for the opposition Boyle has the puck on his stick trying to make something happen. I may be very biased, but this year I expected alot of Burnzie, and Boyle outplayed him. I know Burns will have many great, probably amazing years as a Shark, but I really wanna keep Boyle for the present.

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04-23-2012, 02:45 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
I think it would be absurd to trade Boyle. The only way I'd consider it would be if a younger alternative was coming back, IE a Suter or someone you can build around for the future.
Might be able to pry Suban out of Montreal. What it would take I am not sure, but they will like be making big changes this off-season.

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04-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #104
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I think it would be absurd to trade Boyle. The only way I'd consider it would be if a younger alternative was coming back, IE a Suter or someone you can build around for the future.
They already have that d-man, Kirby. It's Brent Burns. He will be our #1 going forward and he is earning it with his play. He is already better than Boyle defensively and he is going to be better statistically offensively if he learns to get his shot on net with more consistency.

The way this team ended up and the issues that plague this team will require a lot of turnover, I feel. I just don't think that what is necessary to turn this team around and back into a Cup contending team can all be done in one off-season or even two.

That's why I'd move Vlasic and Boyle this off-season. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Murray is dealt in the off-season and Vandermeer/White are not retained. It will be a lot of turnover and they probably will be worse next year but they're not going to get any better now or in the future keeping Boyle and Vlasic.

I threw Vlasic in here because while he started the year progressing with his puck play and aggressiveness with getting involved offensively, he reverted back as the year went along. He will be unrestricted after next season and I just don't think the reverted Vlasic is the kind of defenseman we need going forward. This team needs to start becoming more of a transition team and Vlasic does not help that out very much.

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04-23-2012, 02:51 PM
  #105
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Might be able to pry Suban out of Montreal. What it would take I am not sure, but they will like be making big changes this off-season.
I would be VERY okay with this. Suban's attitude is what our team needs.

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04-23-2012, 02:51 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Kegsey View Post
Boyler is the second most competitive person on this team next to Joe in my opinion. Even when the game is in the bag for the opposition Boyle has the puck on his stick trying to make something happen. I may be very biased, but this year I expected alot of Burnzie, and Boyle outplayed him. I know Burns will have many great, probably amazing years as a Shark, but I really wanna keep Boyle for the present.
They were about even overall and I'd probably give a slight edge to Burns because he was better defensively, had less opportunities offensively than Boyle, and had to carry the useless version of Douglas Murray when it counted the most down the stretch and in the playoffs.

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04-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #107
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wouldnt trade him, id just cut him. Ive been saying it all year, Dan Boyle is garbage.


Go away troll.

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04-23-2012, 03:10 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
They already have that d-man, Kirby. It's Brent Burns. He will be our #1 going forward and he is earning it with his play. He is already better than Boyle defensively and he is going to be better statistically offensively if he learns to get his shot on net with more consistency.

The way this team ended up and the issues that plague this team will require a lot of turnover, I feel. I just don't think that what is necessary to turn this team around and back into a Cup contending team can all be done in one off-season or even two.

That's why I'd move Vlasic and Boyle this off-season. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Murray is dealt in the off-season and Vandermeer/White are not retained. It will be a lot of turnover and they probably will be worse next year but they're not going to get any better now or in the future keeping Boyle and Vlasic.

I threw Vlasic in here because while he started the year progressing with his puck play and aggressiveness with getting involved offensively, he reverted back as the year went along. He will be unrestricted after next season and I just don't think the reverted Vlasic is the kind of defenseman we need going forward. This team needs to start becoming more of a transition team and Vlasic does not help that out very much.
Yes I think DW got Burns as the eventual Boyle replacement, that much is obvious. I think the team needs them both in order to be competitive. DW seems to want a smooth transition as opposed to a rebuild that would be disruptive and chaotic and I think he will keep Boyle as long as he wants to stay and can play at an elite level. Vlasic will not be traded baring something amazing coming back at this point. Trading Murray does seem a foregone conclusion as age, speed/mobility, style of play, and changing attitudes toward his type of large damaging hits seem to have diminished his usefulness. I think DW is always looking to bring in upgrades and hopefully younger replacements but I think Boyle is on the team at least another year or two before he is considered movable.

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04-23-2012, 03:17 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
They already have that d-man, Kirby. It's Brent Burns. He will be our #1 going forward and he is earning it with his play. He is already better than Boyle defensively and he is going to be better statistically offensively if he learns to get his shot on net with more consistency.

The way this team ended up and the issues that plague this team will require a lot of turnover, I feel. I just don't think that what is necessary to turn this team around and back into a Cup contending team can all be done in one off-season or even two.

That's why I'd move Vlasic and Boyle this off-season. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Murray is dealt in the off-season and Vandermeer/White are not retained. It will be a lot of turnover and they probably will be worse next year but they're not going to get any better now or in the future keeping Boyle and Vlasic.

I threw Vlasic in here because while he started the year progressing with his puck play and aggressiveness with getting involved offensively, he reverted back as the year went along. He will be unrestricted after next season and I just don't think the reverted Vlasic is the kind of defenseman we need going forward. This team needs to start becoming more of a transition team and Vlasic does not help that out very much.
Vlasic "regressed" offensively because he was taken away from a partner that he worked well with (Burns) and stuck with a puck-hog. Playing with Burns gave him confidence to jump up and shoot more, because he knew that Burns could fly back and cover him as a last resort. Boyle refuses to share the puck and is too risky for Vlasic to take any chances himself without freaking out.

Here are my requirements if Boyle stays:

-Take him off the PK. He needs his minutes severely cut, and taking out hard PK minutes will help.
-Get him the **** away from Vlasic. Maybe Braun would be a suitable partner? All I know is that Vlasic was playing the best hockey of his career with Burns and Murray is an anchor for Burns. Vlasic and Burns together were a legit first pair.
-Give him #3 EV minutes and #1 PP minutes. He shouldn't play more than 22 minutes a night, depending on how much PP time the team gets.

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04-23-2012, 03:21 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Here are my requirements if Boyle stays:

-Take him off the PK. He needs his minutes severely cut, and taking out hard PK minutes will help.
-Get him the **** away from Vlasic. Maybe Braun would be a suitable partner? All I know is that Vlasic was playing the best hockey of his career with Burns and Murray is an anchor for Burns. Vlasic and Burns together were a legit first pair.
-Give him #3 EV minutes and #1 PP minutes. He shouldn't play more than 22 minutes a night, depending on how much PP time the team gets.
I agree, though I might even give Burns #1 PP minutes. The low-to-high pass on the PP is a pretty good strategy, but you need a quick and hard shot for it to be effective. Burns just has to learn to get the puck on net.
For your requirements to come true, Todd McLellan may have to go. With both Boyle and Todd McLellan, you'll see Boyle playing 30 minutes a night, paired with Vlasic, and out for the entire 2 minutes of the PP.

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04-23-2012, 03:27 PM
  #111
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I agree, though I might even give Burns #1 PP minutes. The low-to-high pass on the PP is a pretty good strategy, but you need a quick and hard shot for it to be effective.
For your requirements to come true, Todd McLellan may have to go. With both Boyle and Todd McLellan, you'll see Boyle playing 30 minutes a night, paired with Vlasic, and out for the entire 2 minutes of the PP.
Boyle is still the best PPQB in the league (in my humble opinion). I wouldn't change that. What I would do is alter PP1 and PP2 to fit Boyle and Burns. PP1 with Boyle would have the skill passing guys, the Havlats and Thorntons, and then a shooter in Pavelski. PP2 would have garbage guys/net front presences like Marleau and Clowe, and a good passer in Couture, so Burns could just take bombs from the point.

I'm no PP expert, but to treat the PP the same with Boyle or Burns at the point is a mistake. They are different types of players, and the system should be altered accordingly.

OT, but the biggest thing Burns needs to work on is shot accuracy. If he could hit the net even 25% more of the time, he'd be even more of a force.

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04-23-2012, 03:31 PM
  #112
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I would like Boyle to stay unless people overpay.

A very good PPQB and the vet presence can prove to be quite useful in the future.

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04-23-2012, 03:32 PM
  #113
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It will be interesting to see what happens to the D pairings if we do sign Stuart. The other major probable move is weather we replace Murray or White with and with whom.

Stuart - Boyle
Vlasic - Burns
Demers/Murray - Braun
Extra

Looks decent, if we can add another upgrade on the bottom pairing we should be set. I'm assuming DW still wants to go at least 8d. Possible one of the Baby Sharks D steps up as well.

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04-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Boyle is still the best PPQB in the league (in my humble opinion). I wouldn't change that. What I would do is alter PP1 and PP2 to fit Boyle and Burns. PP1 with Boyle would have the skill passing guys, the Havlats and Thorntons, and then a shooter in Pavelski. PP2 would have garbage guys/net front presences like Marleau and Clowe, and a good passer in Couture, so Burns could just take bombs from the point.

I'm no PP expert, but to treat the PP the same with Boyle or Burns at the point is a mistake. They are different types of players, and the system should be altered accordingly.

OT, but the biggest thing Burns needs to work on is shot accuracy. If he could hit the net even 25% more of the time, he'd be even more of a force.
#2. Think Lidstrom. Still very rarified air.

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04-23-2012, 03:38 PM
  #115
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#2. Think Lidstrom. Still very rarified air.
If a Sharks defenseman could keep in just half as many pucks as Lidstrom keeps in, their PP would look so much better.

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04-23-2012, 03:41 PM
  #116
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They were about even overall and I'd probably give a slight edge to Burns because he was better defensively, had less opportunities offensively than Boyle, and had to carry the useless version of Douglas Murray when it counted the most down the stretch and in the playoffs.
I do agree, but Burns is 28 so I guess I just expect a lot more out of him. Like I said i'm very biased

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04-23-2012, 03:41 PM
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#2. Think Lidstrom. Still very rarified air.
If Lidstrom retires.

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04-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #118
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Vlasic "regressed" offensively because he was taken away from a partner that he worked well with (Burns) and stuck with a puck-hog. Playing with Burns gave him confidence to jump up and shoot more, because he knew that Burns could fly back and cover him as a last resort. Boyle refuses to share the puck and is too risky for Vlasic to take any chances himself without freaking out.

Here are my requirements if Boyle stays:

-Take him off the PK. He needs his minutes severely cut, and taking out hard PK minutes will help.
-Get him the **** away from Vlasic. Maybe Braun would be a suitable partner? All I know is that Vlasic was playing the best hockey of his career with Burns and Murray is an anchor for Burns. Vlasic and Burns together were a legit first pair.
-Give him #3 EV minutes and #1 PP minutes. He shouldn't play more than 22 minutes a night, depending on how much PP time the team gets.
You're right that Vlasic flourished in the offensive regard with Burns. If the Sharks trade Boyle, that probably addresses it to the point where I would give Vlasic another opportunity. However, my thoughts on the change needed for this team require time and more time than the one year that's left on Vlasic's contract. If it were me as GM, I'd have to have a conversation with Vlasic and his agent to see what he's thinking with regards to a new contract before the season started. I wouldn't offer him a contract or anything but I'd need to know if he is in the ballpark when it comes to staying here. If he's not, he's got to go. If he is, give him the chance, see if the flourish was a flash in the pan. If it wasn't, sign him. If not, he's got to go unless we're magically back in the upper echelon of the league.

And if we're gambling on Vlasic in this manner, Dan Boyle absolutely has to go for the betterment of what we're banking on is the top pair for years to come.

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I do agree, but Burns is 28 so I guess I just expect a lot more out of him. Like I said i'm very biased
Burns also came from a much, much different system with a lot less talent. Boyle was able to make the transition because his responsibilities were less and more offense-oriented because he had Blake and Vlasic to cover the defensive side. Burns was responsible for being a top producer and a top shutdown guy all while going from an airtight offensive system to a possession-based offensively-inclined team. He'll be even better next year with a better understanding of the players around him at the very least.

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04-23-2012, 04:07 PM
  #119
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You're right that Vlasic flourished in the offensive regard with Burns. If the Sharks trade Boyle, that probably addresses it to the point where I would give Vlasic another opportunity. However, my thoughts on the change needed for this team require time and more time than the one year that's left on Vlasic's contract. If it were me as GM, I'd have to have a conversation with Vlasic and his agent to see what he's thinking with regards to a new contract before the season started. I wouldn't offer him a contract or anything but I'd need to know if he is in the ballpark when it comes to staying here. If he's not, he's got to go. If he is, give him the chance, see if the flourish was a flash in the pan. If it wasn't, sign him. If not, he's got to go unless we're magically back in the upper echelon of the league.

And if we're gambling on Vlasic in this manner, Dan Boyle absolutely has to go for the betterment of what we're banking on is the top pair for years to come.
I can agree with that. But considering what DW has done with Couture, Burns, and Thornton the past couple of years, I would expect him to start talking with Vlasic's agent as soon as he's allowed. $4-4.5M is around what I'd expect. If he (the agent or Vlasic) demands $5M or more, trade his ass for Duchene/JVR/Perron.

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04-23-2012, 04:15 PM
  #120
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I can agree with that. But considering what DW has done with Couture, Burns, and Thornton the past couple of years, I would expect him to start talking with Vlasic's agent as soon as he's allowed. $4-4.5M is around what I'd expect. If he (the agent or Vlasic) demands $5M or more, trade his ass for Duchene/JVR/Perron.
Premier shutdown or two-way go for $4.5mil. Vlasic's play, even at his best is around $3.5-$4.0mil. He either needs to up his two-way or his shutdown role to warrant $4.5mil.

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04-23-2012, 04:21 PM
  #121
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Premier shutdown or two-way go for $4.5mil. Vlasic's play, even at his best is around $3.5-$4.0mil. He either needs to up his two-way or his shutdown role to warrant $4.5mil.

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04-23-2012, 04:24 PM
  #122
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I'd give Vlasic something in the ballpark of Eric Brewer, so 3.8-4 million sounds about right. That contract was just given out last offseason and his production was expected to be similar to Vlasic.

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04-23-2012, 04:28 PM
  #123
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Vlasic "regressed" offensively because he was taken away from a partner that he worked well with (Burns) and stuck with a puck-hog. Playing with Burns gave him confidence to jump up and shoot more, because he knew that Burns could fly back and cover him as a last resort. Boyle refuses to share the puck and is too risky for Vlasic to take any chances himself without freaking out.

Here are my requirements if Boyle stays:

-Take him off the PK. He needs his minutes severely cut, and taking out hard PK minutes will help.
-Get him the **** away from Vlasic. Maybe Braun would be a suitable partner? All I know is that Vlasic was playing the best hockey of his career with Burns and Murray is an anchor for Burns. Vlasic and Burns together were a legit first pair.
-Give him #3 EV minutes and #1 PP minutes. He shouldn't play more than 22 minutes a night, depending on how much PP time the team gets.
I would move Vlasic in a heartbeat for good return.....he is a good stay at home D-man but thats it , pick up Stuart , he is better than Vlasic, might even be cheaper longterm.....Murray has to go

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04-23-2012, 04:29 PM
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I would move Vlasic in a heartbeat for good return.....he is a good stay at home D-man but thats it , pick up Stuart , he is better than Vlasic, might even be cheaper longterm.....Murray has to go
Vlasic is MILES better than Stuart. Have you watched him this season?

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04-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #125
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I would move Vlasic in a heartbeat for good return.....he is a good stay at home D-man but thats it , pick up Stuart , he is better than Vlasic, might even be cheaper longterm.....Murray has to go
Stuart is not better than Vlasic. He may be more physical but he is not better defensively and is showing signs of decline and was never top tier defensively like Vlasic has shown the past couple years.

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