HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Still like rebuilding or are you ready to contend for the Cup again?

View Poll Results: Should we continue rebuilding or contend for the Cup?
Cup contender 25 75.76%
Rebuild 8 24.24%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-21-2012, 10:26 AM
  #76
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 23,713
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Would move any forward prospects we have outside of Saad. Would move any defensive prospects.

Return would need to be worth it, but I'd rather bring in a 25 year old guy like Grabovski and give up a prospect to do it.

DisgruntledHawkFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 10:38 AM
  #77
zytz
lumberjack
 
zytz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
How many more 1st round losses is going to take to undo the brain washing by Bowman? I thought you guys would have him on the hot seat after this debacle.
Realistically, this was never going to be our year. To much of our prospect depth not quite ready yet, too much of our pro roster not quite ready yet either. We are in a similar position to SJ of the last few years IMO, poised to contend for a long time.

Bowman could make drastic moves, gut our prospects pool and make big splashes in FA or through trades. But there is no guarantee of a win, no matter what you do. I think if you set yourself up to be a perennial contender you have a much better chance of being a winner.

zytz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 10:46 AM
  #78
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Toews and Kane are far from assured of resigning. As a hockey fan and a big fan of both of these players, I really hope they move on to a contender if we keep going out early in the playoffs. Those two are great players and need to be competing on the big stage for Cups, not end up like so many great players before them: Tkachuk, Lindros, Bure, Bondra, etc. These guys are better than that. The organization needs to start showing some loyalty to them by building around them or they will leave.
Yes, so lets go out and sign Oli Joke-inen. Lets go out and trade for Mikhail Garbagovski. Those will make Chicago better, right?

The Hawks are building around them.. it just doesn't happen over night. Bowman's had money to work with once and it was an awful free-agency period. Just like this year is going to be awful. You don't build Cup champs through free-agency, you build them threw schrewd trades and the draft. Bowman's made some good trades looking towards the future and the present and he's had two drafts of stockpiling 1st and 2nd round picks.

Marcus Kruger, Dylan Olsen, Jeremy Morin, Brandon Saad, Brandon Pirri, Kyle Beach, Andrew Shaw, Mark McNeill, Phillip Danault, Stephen Johns, Adam Clendening.. These guys aren't 4-5 years away from becoming regular NHL players.. some of them already are, some of them are on the cusp and most of them have the potential to become impactful NHL players once they get here.

Everyone body wants to get on Bowman for moves they feel he "should" have made. We'll that's fine. The price of getting Derek Roy was likely Saad+. The price of Mikhail Grabovski was a 1st+. You don't make moves out of desperation and Chicago had and has no reason to be desperate.

People keep saying "If the price of winning a Cup means you have to desmantle the team afterwords, do it and live with the consequences".. Newsflash - This is part of the consequence of having to move that much talent over 1 summer. Deal with it. It's been 2 years.. not a decade. It's a process, and it doesn't happen over night.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:13 PM
  #79
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,502
vCash: 500
1. Get a goalie that is a proven #1. This wins us some games and gives the team more confidence.

2. Need another Top6 player. We have Krüger and Bruno in the Top 6. Nuff said

3. get bigger on the Bottom 6

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:16 PM
  #80
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 9,378
vCash: 500
I'm ready for a bit of a core shakeup and a coaching change if this teams falls in the first round. Philly has proven this year that it can work and work well. Season isnt over yet though.

Sarava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:17 PM
  #81
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 9,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
1. Get a goalie that is a proven #1. This wins us some games and gives the team more confidence.

2. Need another Top6 player. We have Krüger and Bruno in the Top 6. Nuff said

3. get bigger on the Bottom 6
Uggh, #3 is where I 100% disagree. That's what Stan did last summer. We don't need to get bigger with our low minutes guys. We need to get bigger in our top 6 and in our top 4 dmen.

Sarava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:24 PM
  #82
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I'm ready for a bit of a core shakeup and a coaching change if this teams falls in the first round. Philly has proven this year that it can work and work well. Season isnt over yet though.
The problem is, Philly moved those players out with younger, proven or somewhat proven players ready to step up and have larger roles on the team.. Guys like Giroux and JVR who had lesser roles with Carter and Richards still in the mix.

Where is Chicago's Giroux? The closest thing we have to JVR is Saad, and he's played all of 3 total NHL games.

You move a guy like Sharp or Hossa or, lol, Kane and I think all you do is disrupt a lockerrom that's already had to deal with alot of moving parts over the past couple seasons.

Philly believed they could not get over the hump with Carter and Richards leading the way. This "core" has proven they can win.. we should try to improve the players around them before we starting making big changes.

IMO, if this team doesn't show noticeable improvement in 2 years, than you start thinking about potentially blowing it up. Give guys like Saad, Beach, Morin, Pirri, J.Hayes, Shaw, Kruger, Olsen and Leddy more of a chance to show that they can contribute to this team getting back to the summit.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:25 PM
  #83
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,502
vCash: 500
I think we have to get bigger in the Bottom 6 because you can't have Frolik there when you already have a Shaw and Krüger there. Need some big guys that can play. PO Bickell, Buff, Ladd. those are guys you want on your bottom 6.

need to get bigger in the Top6 and Bottom 6

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:27 PM
  #84
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 9,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
The problem is, Philly moved those players out with younger, proven or somewhat proven players ready to step up and have larger roles on the team.. Guys like Giroux and JVR who had lesser roles with Carter and Richards still in the mix.

Where is Chicago's Giroux? The closest thing we have to JVR is Saad, and he's played all of 3 total NHL games.

You move a guy like Sharp or Hossa or, lol, Kane and I think all you do is disrupt a lockerrom that's already had to deal with alot of moving parts over the past couple seasons.

Philly believed they could not get over the hump with Carter and Richards leading the way. This "core" has proven they can win.. we should try to improve the players around them before we starting making big changes.

IMO, if this team doesn't show noticeable improvement in 2 years, than you start thinking about potentially blowing it up. Give guys like Saad, Beach, Morin, Pirri, J.Hayes, Shaw, Kruger, Olsen and Leddy more of a chance to show that they can contribute to this team getting back to the summit.
Actually the guy I have in mind to move is Keith...not any of the forwards. I know that sounds crazy, but keep in mind that moving a Norris trophy winner is done with the intention of a massive return coming back. I'll post about it when our season is over...you can flame me then

Sarava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:31 PM
  #85
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Actually the guy I have in mind to move is Keith...not any of the forwards. I know that sounds crazy, but keep in mind that moving a Norris trophy winner is done with the intention of a massive return coming back. I'll post about it when our season is over...you can flame me then
Alot of people give way too much **** to Keith.. he may not be a Norris Trophy winning Dman anymore.. but he's still our best Dman on alot of nights and he plays alot or minutes.

Chicago is a team best equiped to losing a high-calibure forward, as opposed to a high-calibure Dman. We just don't have the depth to withstand trading Keith. Olsen and Leddy simply aren't ready and may never be able to shoulder that much responsibility.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:38 PM
  #86
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 9,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Alot of people give way too much **** to Keith.. he may not be a Norris Trophy winning Dman anymore.. but he's still our best Dman on alot of nights and he plays alot or minutes.

Chicago is a team best equiped to losing a high-calibure forward, as opposed to a high-calibure Dman. We just don't have the depth to withstand trading Keith. Olsen and Leddy simply aren't ready and may never be able to shoulder that much responsibility.
I'm not giving crap to Keith at all. He's a good player. I'm looking at the Hawks making a hockey move to improve their team. The idea revolves around signing Ryan Suter, which is very possible if Dunc's salary is moved.

Sarava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:39 PM
  #87
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,502
vCash: 500
we could sign Suter and keep Keith....

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:41 PM
  #88
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 9,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
we could sign Suter and keep Keith....
Probably not.

Sarava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:45 PM
  #89
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I'm not giving crap to Keith at all. He's a good player. I'm looking at the Hawks making a hockey move to improve their team. The idea revolves around signing Ryan Suter, which is very possible if Dunc's salary is moved.
I didn't mean specifically you, just in general he gets **** on alot.

And, just to add to what Bubba said.. we could sign Suter and keep Keith, we'd just have to move Hammer.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 01:53 PM
  #90
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Probably not.
don't want to make a Capgeek, but I'm sure we can make a roster with both of them in it. Frolik and Hjammer may have to go, that should be enough

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 02:01 PM
  #91
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 9,378
vCash: 500
I think that doesn't help our problem of our defense needing size. Not that Suter replacing Keith solves that. But the ability to move Hammer or Leddy for a brusing defender is still open in my scenerio. Where in the scenerio of having Keith, Suter and Seabs signed...there's no more money for defense...or even for the bottom half of our roster.

Anyway..my idea was moving Keith to Edmonton for Yakupov. It's dangerous in that it quickly elevates Edmonton to contender status, as Keith would be a disgustingly good fit there. For the Hawks it gives us a player who might be the most skilled on the team and could push this team towards a cup or three. With Edmonton probably only being in our conference one more year (assuming that plan of realignemnt eventually goes through)...then I don't worry about strengthening them up too much.

The first question ight be...why wouldn't Edmonton just sign Suter and not have to give up Yakupov? The answer is there's no way in hell he signs there. Where in Chicago...his uncle played here, he is from Wisconsin, and the Hawks have been voted what the 1st or 2nd most desired place to play by NHL players? The Hawks could nab him, even over Detroit.

Sarava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 03:55 PM
  #92
Godlike13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 790
vCash: 500
I'd rather have Keith than Suter.

Godlike13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 04:04 PM
  #93
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
 
Marotte Marauder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Yes, so lets go out and sign Oli Joke-inen. Lets go out and trade for Mikhail Garbagovski. Those will make Chicago better, right?



Marcus Kruger, Dylan Olsen, Jeremy Morin, Brandon Saad, Brandon Pirri, Kyle Beach, Andrew Shaw, Mark McNeill, Phillip Danault, Stephen Johns, Adam Clendening.. These guys aren't 4-5 years away from becoming regular NHL players.. some of them already are, some of them are on the cusp and most of them have the potential to become impactful NHL players once they get here.


.
VERY FEW of these guys will become impact players on a Cup contending team.

Marotte Marauder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 04:12 PM
  #94
BronYrAur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
VERY FEW of these guys will become impact players on a Cup contending team.
Eh, we had pretty good depth on offense this year. This team certainly didn't have a problem putting up points and guys like Hayes & Shaw did a nice job of coming up and making a bit of an impact. That list of players will only make our depth better. When you have Toews/Kane/Hossa/Sharp you don't really need more "impact" players. No team has 6 top-6 forwards that all put up 60+ pts. That's unrealistic.

I would be willing to deal some prospects to get stronger on defense. Allow Leddy to develop into a puck-moving D-man who has the offensive game but don't pair him with an Oduya-type. Get somebody who is big, plays the body, and is a solid 2nd-pair d-man. That's what this team needs.

That or a coaching/system change.

BronYrAur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 04:35 PM
  #95
Hawkimus
Registered User
 
Hawkimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Eternal Dream
Posts: 326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
The problem is, Philly moved those players out with younger, proven or somewhat proven players ready to step up and have larger roles on the team.. Guys like Giroux and JVR who had lesser roles with Carter and Richards still in the mix.

Where is Chicago's Giroux? The closest thing we have to JVR is Saad, and he's played all of 3 total NHL games.

You move a guy like Sharp or Hossa or, lol, Kane and I think all you do is disrupt a lockerrom that's already had to deal with alot of moving parts over the past couple seasons.

Philly believed they could not get over the hump with Carter and Richards leading the way. This "core" has proven they can win.. we should try to improve the players around them before we starting making big changes.

IMO, if this team doesn't show noticeable improvement in 2 years, than you start thinking about potentially blowing it up. Give guys like Saad, Beach, Morin, Pirri, J.Hayes, Shaw, Kruger, Olsen and Leddy more of a chance to show that they can contribute to this team getting back to the summit.
Your 'logic first' method is dominating this thread.....

As for the Philly Trade...Once in a decade 'GM MOVE' ... but very well played though by Holmgren

Hawkimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 04:56 PM
  #96
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I'm ready for a bit of a core shakeup and a coaching change if this teams falls in the first round. Philly has proven this year that it can work and work well. Season isnt over yet though.
Except Philly has a GM who knows what he is doing, if Bowman decides to shake it up by trading two or three of Hossa, Sharp, Kane, Keith, Seabrook I am scared to imagine what the return might bring.

Sir Psycho T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 04:59 PM
  #97
KyleJRM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 2,626
vCash: 500
Really not looking forward to yet another offseason where we replace good players with bad players and call it "grit" and "sandpaper" and "toughness."

KyleJRM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 05:23 PM
  #98
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
 
Marotte Marauder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
Eh, we had pretty good depth on offense this year. This team certainly didn't have a problem putting up points and guys like Hayes & Shaw did a nice job of coming up and making a bit of an impact. That list of players will only make our depth better. When you have Toews/Kane/Hossa/Sharp you don't really need more "impact" players. No team has 6 top-6 forwards that all put up 60+ pts. That's unrealistic.

I would be willing to deal some prospects to get stronger on defense. Allow Leddy to develop into a puck-moving D-man who has the offensive game but don't pair him with an Oduya-type. Get somebody who is big, plays the body, and is a solid 2nd-pair d-man. That's what this team needs.

That or a coaching/system change.
You do realize that this season the Hawks did not have an elite scorer? Did not have a shutdown D man? Did not have a goalie who wins games on his own?

Who on your list of "depth" prospects is going to fill any of the missing elements?

Marotte Marauder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 05:30 PM
  #99
Gootie
Thug of the Year
 
Gootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chiraq
Country: United States
Posts: 26,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I'm not giving crap to Keith at all. He's a good player. I'm looking at the Hawks making a hockey move to improve their team. The idea revolves around signing Ryan Suter, which is very possible if Dunc's salary is moved.
Or you trade Hammer, whose cap hit is only 2M less than Keith's. We've got something like 7m to spend this offseason, which could easily go to something like 13 million if we trade Hammer and Frolik.

Gootie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 06:00 PM
  #100
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
We have a 2nd line centre, Patrick Kane. The #1 goalie and top-4 Dmen are new holes, they showed up during the course of the season.. and don't pretend like you knew Crawford would have such a sub-par regular season. No one did.

And niether are Keith or Seabrook. Even more reason to not sell the farm for marginal talents like Mikhail Grabovski, Nikolai Kulemin etc.



And.. what's your point? Most of this board wants Hammer gone. Bolland loves Chicago, he spends most of his summers here.. I don't think he's going anywhere. Leddy's going to be resigned, easily and Toews/Kane are the faces of the franchise, unless they force managments hand (unlikely), they'll be resigned.



Are you serious? Look how long Detroit has been competing. They won't be in a "win now" mode for a few seasons. Sharp just turned 30. Hossa's 32. They're not spring chickens anymore but they're not really close to the twilight of their careers either.
We still need a top 6 forward wherever Kane plays because Kruger and Bruno aren't top 6 forwards on a Cup team.

I never liked Crawford, there was a reason Niemi beat him out 2 years ago, there was a reason he was 26 before a regular NHL goalie, he simply wasn't good enough and still isn't.

Great Bolland loves Chicago, so what happens when a team offers him more then Chicago can or will.

Your kidding yourself if you think Kane and Toews are never going anywhere. If after 3 years this team isn't any better then now and they can go to a better team and/or make more money I see no reason they don't take it. Not saying they will go, just won't say they will never go.

Detroit has always been competing because they always made smart moves, Chicago hasn't. Plus most of Detroits run was pre-cap, if there is no salary cap they we aren't having this talk because, Ladd, Buff, Brouwer, Versteeg, Campbell and Niemi are all still here.

Sir Psycho T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.