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Why do we need a scapegoat?

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Old
04-20-2012, 11:06 PM
  #1
zytz
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Why do we need a scapegoat?

Am I really the only one that thinks PHX just plays a style that's going to beat this team 9/10 times?

Some of these threads are reminiscent of a lynch mob- if you honestly think you can pin these losses on a single player or person in the org. you are crazy.

When you consider Crawford and the pair of OT softies he's let in, you also need to consider the number of times he bailed out the team in regulation. When you compare him to Mile Smith is he the worse goalie? Absolutely- but that's no reason to trade him or say that he's been awful. The reality is that last night, we win that game if Oduya doesn't give up the puck to Doan... who he KNEW was right behind him.

You can consider Hammer as well- he likely caused a goal against in game 1(?) but he saved a goal last game too.

I'm really boggled by the folks calling for sharpie's head- you can look at him and say he only has one goal. Anyone remember that goal? Without that goal we never win game 2 and this series is over right now. He also has 15 hits. Invisible my ass.

The Blackhawks ultimately, are losing as a team right now. Crawford can not come up huge so many times, and the real bottom line is that the rest of the team is scoring a paltry 2 goals per game in regulation. You guys know which goalie won the most games where his team only scored two this year? Johnathan ****ing Quick. And Crow ain't him.

The Yotes play incredible defense... our speed and skill rarely come into play against them. Our team is forced to get our goals by shooting from the point, deflections, or scrums in front of the net. None of those are areas we excel it. This team is out of its element, plain and simple. We don't match up well against the Yotes.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

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04-21-2012, 12:08 AM
  #2
Chris Hansen
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Blackhawks, as they are currently constructed, are a slightly below average playoff team in the West.

The team has fallen incredibly far since 2010, but obviously we all know that.


Agree with all of your post.

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04-21-2012, 12:12 AM
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Crazy_Ike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
When you consider Crawford and the pair of OT softies he's let in, you also need to consider the number of times he bailed out the team in regulation.
No I don't. Like I've said, when you actually watch the goalies on the other teams, you realize that those saves are actually baseline for all NHL caliber goalies in the league.

Not all goalies let in zero percent shots and shots that aren't even shots at the worst possible time, though.

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04-21-2012, 12:13 AM
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The yotes are a good team but I can't look at the first and third goals they scored yesterday and say, "well they made a good play." If the hawks could stop turning the puck over and put together even an average power play they would be in a far better position right now.

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04-21-2012, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
No I don't. Like I've said, when you actually watch the goalies on the other teams, you realize that those saves are actually baseline for all NHL caliber goalies in the league.

Not all goalies let in zero percent shots and shots that aren't even shots at the worst possible time, though.
Without Crawford, this series is over. You need to come to terms with that.

You can **** on him all you want. That's fine. So many people are blind to what ails the Hawks.

Mike Smith has given up bad goals all series. Crawford has played lights out in regulation. From Toews' goal, to Bollig's and Bickell's OT winner (which was very simular to the Doan goal from last game, only Smith didn't make a great initial save).

If our PP wasn't absolute garbage, we aren't talking about goaltending right now - simple as that. You can make as big a deal out of the goaltending as you want.. that's fine.. that doesn't mean it's the problem.

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04-21-2012, 09:35 AM
  #6
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At the end of the day, we are built to be a high scoring team, and scoring just isn't happening.

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04-21-2012, 10:16 AM
  #7
Sarava
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I agree Phoenix was a bad matchup for the Hawks. I said in the series thread that Phoenix really worried me. Everyone else seemed to think the Hawks would glide to a 5 game series win. That was never going to happen.

I wish the Hawks hadn't given up that late goal against Detroit. Would have rather taken our chances with the Predators.

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04-21-2012, 10:18 AM
  #8
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Nasville has a better tender, a better defense, and a better offense. They are the absolute last team I wanted the Hawks to come up against.

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04-21-2012, 10:30 AM
  #9
HawksFan74
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^ Nashville does not have a better offense.

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04-21-2012, 10:33 AM
  #10
zytz
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And I think that Nashville is also more prone to making mistakes than Phoenix. Not to say that they are poorly coached, in fact it's quite the opposite, but they are a team that can be frustrated by their own mistakes.

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04-21-2012, 10:40 AM
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I agree that Nashville is the better team - but the trends pointed towards Phoenix not being the team to face at this time. Phoenix did give up less goals than Nashville during the season and they certainy were a much hotter team heading in to the playoffs.

As for Rinne - he is certainly better, but Smith has probably had the Hawks number recently more than Rinne has. The Hawks put 5 on Rinne near the end of the season. Where I know Smith had won at least 4 in a row vs. the Hawks going back to the previous season.

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04-21-2012, 10:44 AM
  #12
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Just looked it up. Mike Smith shut the Hawks out 2-0 on 4/3/11 for the Lightning. It was a 31 shot shutout in Chicago.

So that's at least 4 wins in a row vs. the Hawks heading in to this year's playoffs. I'm not sure when he last played vs. the Hawks before that shutout with TB.

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04-21-2012, 11:14 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
^ Nashville does not have a better offense.
Yes, it does.

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04-21-2012, 01:04 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Without Crawford, this series is over. You need to come to terms with that.

You can **** on him all you want. That's fine. So many people are blind to what ails the Hawks.

Mike Smith has given up bad goals all series. Crawford has played lights out in regulation. From Toews' goal, to Bollig's and Bickell's OT winner (which was very simular to the Doan goal from last game, only Smith didn't make a great initial save).

If our PP wasn't absolute garbage, we aren't talking about goaltending right now - simple as that. You can make as big a deal out of the goaltending as you want.. that's fine.. that doesn't mean it's the problem.
with Crawford, this series is 1-3 instead of 2-2 or 3-1

I'm 100% confident that with Vokoun in net, we would lead this series


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
No I don't. Like I've said, when you actually watch the goalies on the other teams, you realize that those saves are actually baseline for all NHL caliber goalies in the league.

Not all goalies let in zero percent shots and shots that aren't even shots at the worst possible time, though.
QFT

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04-21-2012, 01:12 PM
  #15
HockeySensible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
with Crawford, this series is 1-3 instead of 2-2 or 3-1

I'm 100% confident that with Vokoun in net, we would lead this series



QFT
That's fine. You're likely also 100% confident we'd be leading this series with Lolungo in net.

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Old
04-21-2012, 01:22 PM
  #16
Bubba88
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and we would lead the series.

Crawford is bad, was bad and will be bad. I said this all year long and will say this until he is another teams problem

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04-21-2012, 01:28 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
and we would lead the series.

Crawford is bad, was bad and will be bad. I said this all year long and will say this until he is another teams problem
Like Mike Smith?

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04-21-2012, 01:35 PM
  #18
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Smith isn't great so yes, like Smith. Can't wait to see a team paying him 4.5+ million just to see that he isn't a Top15 goalie in the NHL that will lose his starting spot on a PO Team

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Old
04-21-2012, 02:30 PM
  #19
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Crawford should not be this team's scapegoat. Yes, he has let in 2 soft goals, but others have been very responsible for the series being 3-1 right now. I'm not saying let Crawford completely off the hook, but he is far from our only liability.

Crawford has played exceptional during regulation, and as zytz said, the Hawks are a team that thrive on their offense. When you have an average/slightly above average goalie your gameplan is not to play a 2-1 game and hope to take it down. You live and die by the offense, which makes the PP a huge liability when we are 1-13 on the PP. With the big names we have on this team, we should be potting at least 3-13 PP goals (at the minimum). Something needs to change there.

The 2 OT goals were very soft, nobody is going to say they weren't. Crawford played exceptionally well during regulation, which is what got us to OT in the first place. When your team lives and dies on offense, you can't expect the goalie to steal games for you. Everyone saying that Crawford needs to steal games has no idea what this team is about. We are not a defensive-minded team, so expecting our defense/goalie to win a game for us is ridiculous. Only allowing 2 goals during regulation when you're an offensive-minded team should typically result in a win.

The offense/PP/coaching/defense/crawford are ALL responsible for the lost. There does not need to be a scapegoat. Hell, even poor officiating has probably cost us a game or 2. Crawford gave the Hawks 10 minutes to score in OT in game 3 but our stars/position fillers could not take advantage of it.

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04-21-2012, 05:07 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Without Crawford, this series is over. You need to come to terms with that.
Utter baloney. He has not done anything most the league's goalies are all capable of doing, and most the backups as well. That's what YOU need to come to terms with.

Goaltending is a huge problem for the Hawks and no one who has actually seen those overtime goals can say otherwise with a straight face.

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04-21-2012, 05:21 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorMenT View Post
When your team lives and dies on offense, you can't expect the goalie to steal games for you.
You wouldn't expect him to lose games for you either.
Those last two were lost on Crawford's moments of derp in OT.

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04-21-2012, 05:22 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Am I really the only one that thinks PHX just plays a style that's going to beat this team 9/10 times?

Some of these threads are reminiscent of a lynch mob- if you honestly think you can pin these losses on a single player or person in the org. you are crazy.

When you consider Crawford and the pair of OT softies he's let in, you also need to consider the number of times he bailed out the team in regulation. When you compare him to Mile Smith is he the worse goalie? Absolutely- but that's no reason to trade him or say that he's been awful. The reality is that last night, we win that game if Oduya doesn't give up the puck to Doan... who he KNEW was right behind him.

You can consider Hammer as well- he likely caused a goal against in game 1(?) but he saved a goal last game too.

I'm really boggled by the folks calling for sharpie's head- you can look at him and say he only has one goal. Anyone remember that goal? Without that goal we never win game 2 and this series is over right now. He also has 15 hits. Invisible my ass.

The Blackhawks ultimately, are losing as a team right now. Crawford can not come up huge so many times, and the real bottom line is that the rest of the team is scoring a paltry 2 goals per game in regulation. You guys know which goalie won the most games where his team only scored two this year? Johnathan ****ing Quick. And Crow ain't him.

The Yotes play incredible defense... our speed and skill rarely come into play against them. Our team is forced to get our goals by shooting from the point, deflections, or scrums in front of the net. None of those are areas we excel it. This team is out of its element, plain and simple. We don't match up well against the Yotes.

Sometimes the truth hurts.
Very well put especially in regards to Hammer.

I think some of us took Phoenix lightly and expected this to be a convincing Hawks in 5-6 wins.
I put more blame on the coaching staff an powerplay.

Would any Coach in the league put Leddy and SOD 2 minutes into overtime? I also think most would fire Kitchen by now.

If you can bring the heat, gtfo Kitchen!

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04-21-2012, 07:41 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Penosity View Post
You wouldn't expect him to lose games for you either.
Those last two were lost on Crawford's moments of derp in OT.
To blame those losses purely on Crawford is just ignorance and bias against him. Yes, he was a part of it. Nobody is denying that. Many of the defensive meltdowns put us in the situation where we had to go to OT. He didn't single-handedly lose either of those games for us.

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Old
04-21-2012, 08:00 PM
  #24
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1. The style that the Coyotes play is frustrating to the Hawks. The Hawks like to get out and play an up-tempo quick transition style of play with a fairly aggressive forecheck and defensive jumping up into the play.

2. A large part of the Hawks' problem is the Phoenix forecheck. They are locking down/closing off the boards so well. Every time the Hawks try to chip the puck up the boards to their winger to get the break out going, a Coyote is immediately making contact with the winger, taking away his time and space.

3. Chicago's inability to convert on the power play has hurt them all season and continues to hurt them. With so much talent on offense and defense, it's amazing that they can't figure this out.

4. Some guys have not played up to their potential. Sharp has not been very good for most of the series. Crawford has let in two soft goals. Toews and especially Kane are buzzing around out there creating some chances but just can't find the back of the net. Just like last year against Vancouver, the top guys have to get it going for the Hawks to pull off a comeback.

5. Chicago has not done a good job of getting out of the gate early and putting Phoenix in an 0-2 hole early in the first period. Granted, it's easier said than done with Phoenix's stingy style and solid goalie, but if the Hawks can jump out to a quick lead and force the Coyotes to have to play catch up, it would work to their advantage. It takes the Coyotes out of their element and doesn't allow them to just sit back all game and wait for you to make a mistake.

6. Chicago has tried to be too pretty at times with the puck. Maybe it stems from feeling like they need a tic tac toe play to beat Mike Smith, but they don't. They need to put more pucks on the net and crash the net for the deflections/rebounds/second chances. Stop trying to make the perfect pass. Kane has played very well in my opinion but he has been guilty of this. Trying to make to many moves and dance through everybody, trying to make the perfect pass -- just let it fly.

Phoenix is very disciplined, methodical, and risk-averse in how they play. They sit back and make the game a neutral zone game, wait for you to make a mistake, and hit you with the counter attack.

This clearly frustrates the Hawks as they want to push the pace and turn the game into more of a track meet. They get impatient and make some stupid plays due to their frustration. It's kind of similar as to why the Flyers have struggled against the Bruins over the last two years. The Flyers like to play a style similar to the Hawks and the Bruins can slow the game down, trap you, and out-wait you just like Phoenix.

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Old
04-21-2012, 08:07 PM
  #25
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2 of our starting Forwards are out of the lineup and Toews is just back from +20 games off due to a concussion. It's hardly the Hawks at their best against these Desert Dogs.

Raffi Torres and Shanahan won this series for these ********, not the "great" Coyotes or Mike Smith's skill in net (Maybe his acting skills however).

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