If this is in fact similar to how the draft will go (doubftul) I think the Sharks have to take Grigorenko. I personally don't see this guy dropping out of the top 10 but a guy like him must be taken at 17 if available. If Murray is available at 11/12, I think you have to trade up to get him. He is a potential franchise d-man. I would like to take Thrower, Matteau or Frk in the 2nd round.
1. Nail Yakupov
2. Mathew Dumba
3. Morgan Rielly
4. Alex Galchenyuk
5. Teuvo Teravainen
6. Griffin Reinhart
7. Filip Forsberg
8. Malcolm Subban
9. Matt Finn
10. Hampus Lindholm
11. Cody Ceci
12. Ryan Murray
13. Jacob Trouba
14. Mark Jankowski
15. Andrei Vasilevski
16. Zemgus Girgensons
17. Radek Faksa
18. Derrick Pouliot
19. Ludvig Bystrom
20. Mikhail Grigorenko
21. Tom Wilson
22. Tomas Hertl
23. Pontus Aberg
24. Michael Matheson
25. Scott Laughton
26. Gemel Smith
27. Brady Skeji
28. Sebastien Collberg
29. Phillip Di Giuseppe
30. Olli Maatta
31. Oscar Dansk
32. Mikko Vainonen
33. Slater Koekkoek
34. Adam Pelech
35. Jarrod Maidens
36. Devin Shore
37. Brendan Gaunce
38. Brady Vail
39. Esa Lindell
40. Patrick Sieloff
41. Damon Severson
42. Tanner Pearson
43. Matthew Murray
44. Stefan Matteau
45. Vyacheslav Osnovin
46. Lukas Sutter
47. Mike Winther
48. Ville Pokka
49. Christoval Nieves
50. Michael Houser
51. Dalton Thrower
52. Tomas Hyka
53. Brandon Whitney
54. Henrik Samuelsson
55. Martin Frk
56. Andreas Athanasiou
57. Jon Gillies
58. Jordan Schmaltz
59. Anton Slepyshev
60. Dillon Fournier
We do have a second at 55 for the Patrick White compensation pick. Even if we had our original it would only be at 47.
In all likelihood, that pick would be 46. New Jersey is probably going to forfeit this year's pick so everyone will move up one except, I think but I could be wrong, for our compensatory pick at #55. So if we trade back from 17 and into the second round or acquire one some other way, whatever that number is will probably be bumped up one.
There is no chance they touch Grigorenko at #17 if he slips that far. It would mean there are actual red flags scaring off half of the league (INCLUDING Washington - a team which is NEVER afraid to draft a Russian player).
There is no chance they touch Grigorenko at #17 if he slips that far. It would mean there are actual red flags scaring off half of the league (INCLUDING Washington - a team which is NEVER afraid to draft a Russian player).
It would mean that Washington passes up on Grigorenko TWICE. He won't fall to us.
Button's list is pretty "out there", but he definitely knows his stuff. It would be ****ing amazing if Collberg was there for us at 17. Also, I wouldn't mind grabbing Tanner Pearson or Stefan Matteau at 55. It's exciting that we actually have decent picks this year
I'm actually going to stab something if that happens.
I jest, of course, but Ceci wouldn't be the worst pick. He does have top end two-way potential. He's got high intelligence for the game and isn't physically challenged in any way.
I jest, of course, but Ceci wouldn't be the worst pick. He does have top end two-way potential. He's got high intelligence for the game and isn't physically challenged in any way.
Maybe so but if a d-man is the best available when they pick, they got to pick him. There is nothing that would stop them from moving a defenseman for forwards later on. If a d-man like Ceci is ready by 2013-14, you can move Demers, Braun, or Boyle for forward(s). They're not getting anyone at or near that selection that is going to help them next season and likely not the year after...maybe if they jump into the top six or seven.
Button's list is pretty "out there", but he definitely knows his stuff. It would be ****ing amazing if Collberg was there for us at 17. Also, I wouldn't mind grabbing Tanner Pearson or Stefan Matteau at 55. It's exciting that we actually have decent picks this year
I doubt the Jets let Pearson slip past them in the 2nd round seeing as they have his teammate Scheifele and they put a lot of trust into Hawerchuk's players.
Maybe so but if a d-man is the best available when they pick, they got to pick him. There is nothing that would stop them from moving a defenseman for forwards later on. If a d-man like Ceci is ready by 2013-14, you can move Demers, Braun, or Boyle for forward(s). They're not getting anyone at or near that selection that is going to help them next season and likely not the year after...maybe if they jump into the top six or seven.
The problem is that they miss badly on dmen in that part of the draft, Wishart, Jillson, Petrecki. They aren't coming up with the Carlson's, McDonagh's, Green's etc. I would rather have them miss on a forward. I agree that at their point in the draft that they are looking at the future, but they have to be picking guys that will become thre Armstrong's, Malone's, etc. of the next generation. They might even pick up a Kesler or Kreider. In that part of the draft, they have been using the wrong criteria in assessing potential.
The problem is that they miss badly on dmen in that part of the draft, Wishart, Jillson, Petrecki. They aren't coming up with the Carlson's, McDonagh's, Green's etc. I would rather have them miss on a forward. I agree that at their point in the draft that they are looking at the future, but they have to be picking guys that will become thre Armstrong's, Malone's, etc. of the next generation. They might even pick up a Kesler or Kreider. In that part of the draft, they have been using the wrong criteria in assessing potential.
They may miss badly (Petrecki doesn't really count since he was 28 and the others are teen picks), but they've at least turned them into something substantial. Wishart helped pull in Boyle and Jillson got us McLaren. They're just as guilty in missing in forwards in this regard as well so it's not like it is a big difference. If we're throwing Petrecki into this, guys like Goc, Morris, Kaspar, and Bernier are all big misses as well.
The reality of the matter is if they're going to keep this pick, they just have to take the best player available regardless of if it is a forward or a d-man.
They may miss badly (Petrecki doesn't really count since he was 28 and the others are teen picks), but they've at least turned them into something substantial. Wishart helped pull in Boyle and Jillson got us McLaren. They're just as guilty in missing in forwards in this regard as well so it's not like it is a big difference. If we're throwing Petrecki into this, guys like Goc, Morris, Kaspar, and Bernier are all big misses as well.
The reality of the matter is if they're going to keep this pick, they just have to take the best player available regardless of if it is a forward or a d-man.
They have to de-emphasize size in their criteria. That has been their fault. The bigger they go, the bigger they fail. Even though Wishart garnered Boyle, he was a minor part of the deal. And his current lack of progress has to serve as a black mark to Sharks' scouting. I was using picks from 12-30, both from the Sharks and from other teams. Their last hit in that range was Goc. Goc has achieved the average skill of his pick range, racked up enough games and looks be solidly in the NHL for the foreseeable future. Bernier is touch and go for NHL in the future although he may have a minor career as a 4th liner.
The teams that succeed in the named range are the teams that de-emphasize size.
Don't want Ceci. We don't need anymore 67's drafted.
Ceci supposedly cracked the top 10 in rankings, but I don't buy it. Neither should we.
We don't need to draft anymore Dmen. Theres 8 Dmen in the NA top 15 rankings, we need to pass on all of them and draft a forward.
Like Easy said, we need to stop looking at size, and we need to start looking at guys who can skate and finish. Collberg would immediately impact the Wor roster.
Don't want Ceci. We don't need anymore 67's drafted.
Ceci supposedly cracked the top 10 in rankings, but I don't buy it. Neither should we.
We don't need to draft anymore Dmen. Theres 8 Dmen in the NA top 15 rankings, we need to pass on all of them and draft a forward.
Like Easy said, we need to stop looking at size, and we need to start looking at guys who can skate and finish. Collberg would immediately impact the Wor roster.
I am not for ignoring size altogether. Just don't grab it in the late first round. You get guys who are dominating their level through size yet have holes in their game (why they aren't a top 10 pick). For whatever reason, it seems that motivation and possibly other issues are cropping up and the Sharks don't have the answers for those issues in development. Going smaller, you are getting guys who know they have to overcome the size factor, and therefore have a little more self motivation. Get size late and you get guys with more holes who know that they have a lot of work to do to make the show and therefore a lot more motivation (eg Clowe, Murray). The Sharks best dman picks lately have been second round smaller guys, Vlasic and Carle, a 4th rounder in Ehrhoff and late rounders in Demers and Braun. You have to go back to Hannan to find their last converted late first round dman.
I am not for ignoring size altogether. Just don't grab it in the late first round. You get guys who are dominating their level through size yet have holes in their game (why they aren't a top 10 pick). For whatever reason, it seems that motivation and possibly other issues are cropping up and the Sharks don't have the answers for those issues in development. Going smaller, you are getting guys who know they have to overcome the size factor, and therefore have a little more self motivation. Get size late and you get guys with more holes who know that they have a lot of work to do to make the show and therefore a lot more motivation (eg Clowe, Murray). The Sharks best dman picks lately have been second round smaller guys, Vlasic and Carle, a 4th rounder in Ehrhoff and late rounders in Demers and Braun. You have to go back to Hannan to find their last converted late first round dman.
This is all perfectly reasonable but it doesn't necessarily refute taking Ceci if he's there for this team. In particular, Ceci is not an aggressively physical player. He has dominated through skill and skating. He's not soft by any means but he just doesn't have a mean streak. My personal preference for this draft is hoping that they're able to deal at least two of Clowe, Murray, and Niemi for at the very least 2nd round picks and trading back their 1st for even more picks. The reality of it is that they are going to fail more often than not getting someone useful in the short term here. Even Couture took three years before he made contributions here. Same with Setoguchi.
At least if you acquire a multitude of picks, you get more opportunities for hits and more assets for trading down the road, which we know they will do anyway. If they trade back into the second round, they at least get into a more successful area for themselves.
Like Easy said, we need to stop looking at size, and we need to start looking at guys who can skate and finish. Collberg would immediately impact the Wor roster.
Assuming the Sharks manage to get Collberg, when do you think he'll be in Worcester?
This is all perfectly reasonable but it doesn't necessarily refute taking Ceci if he's there for this team. In particular, Ceci is not an aggressively physical player. He has dominated through skill and skating. He's not soft by any means but he just doesn't have a mean streak. My personal preference for this draft is hoping that they're able to deal at least two of Clowe, Murray, and Niemi for at the very least 2nd round picks and trading back their 1st for even more picks. The reality of it is that they are going to fail more often than not getting someone useful in the short term here. Even Couture took three years before he made contributions here. Same with Setoguchi.
At least if you acquire a multitude of picks, you get more opportunities for hits and more assets for trading down the road, which we know they will do anyway. If they trade back into the second round, they at least get into a more successful area for themselves.
I see your point with Ceci's qualities.
Another note is that the Sharks overbalance in picking more dmen and goalies, like Nashville. They don't have the success rate of Nashville in that regard converting those picks. Philly and Buffalo overbalance to forwards and they do have success in that area. It's OK to overbalance if you are hitting with your picks and development. Not so good if you are treading water. Nashville is a good case in point as they have not translated their dman success into exchanging converts for forwards. It looks like they recently shifted their percentages on picks and may be reaping the rewards. It appalled me when Burke was quoted as saying that if there was no particular standout for a pick that the Sharks might as well go with a dman. There were multiple things wrong with that quote and the underlying thinking.
