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Old
05-30-2012, 09:40 PM
  #376
unchibaka
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
13. Minimum.

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05-30-2012, 09:44 PM
  #377
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For Suter's rights? That would be the first move that really chaps my hide. Not that I've been OK with all of them, but that would be insane, wouldn't it?
Of course that would be a stupid trade. But if it's the only stupid move of the summer, I'd be pleased. Low standards and all.

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05-30-2012, 09:47 PM
  #378
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Of course that would be a stupid trade. But if it's the only stupid move of the summer, I'd be pleased. Low standards and all.
Well, that's the state of the Sharks I guess. I try and be ridiculous and I get a reasonable response

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05-30-2012, 11:40 PM
  #379
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How many centers do we need?
With another center, we could probably put up a whole new team. You know for those rainy days, when one of our core groups doesn't show up.

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05-31-2012, 01:09 AM
  #380
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I dunno about you guys but I'd be incredibly sad if Dezzy got traded for Suter's rights. The comedic value/potential jokes on top of his good play is a rare combo in this league.

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05-31-2012, 01:27 AM
  #381
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Me too. I love me some Desy. He's Scott Nichol circa 09-10 but bigger, younger, a cooler name, and more comedic value. A negative is all the idiotic opposing fans that freak out when they see his number.

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05-31-2012, 02:01 AM
  #382
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A negative is all the idiotic opposing fans that freak out when they see his number.
I still kinda freak out when I see his number

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05-31-2012, 02:20 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Sharksrule04 View Post
Sorry, here is my explanation.

I expect more talent/potential than what Gaunce would bring from a 17th overall pick. Most things I have read say that Gaunce has 2nd line upside. That isn't very enticing in the first round. I want a player with top 3 d-man or a first line forward potential. Doesn't matter though because you don't really have the option to trade up in mock draft and I severely doubt the Sharks stay at the 17th pick. I think there would be more worthy options available at the 17th pick then Gaunce.
You've stumbled upon the reason why DW treats his first-round-picks like chump change.

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05-31-2012, 10:11 AM
  #384
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He's supposed to be a safe pick with 2nd line potential. That's very enticing for 17th overall. Start looking through 2000 and beyond, and find how many guys actually had a proper NHL career as second liners who were drafted from 17-30. You won't find too many.

Top-10 picks feature players with first line potential. From 11-30 there is generally a drop off and you run into the dilemma of, 'do I take a safe pick, or do I go for a hit or miss guy'. Every draft won't replicate 2003, where you saw Parise, Getzlaf, Burns, Kesler, Richards, and Perry go from 17-30.

While I personally would prefer someone like Sebastian Collberg, Brendan Gaunce by no means is a "terrible" pick for 17th. I think when folks read the part, "non-dynamic", they throw Gaunce to the side, assuming that won't ever put up respectable offensive numbers in the NHL.
I am not a "safe pick" kind of guy. I didn't see the actual mock draft but if a guy like Maata was still available, I'd 100% take him over Gaunce. I'd rather trade the first round pick if all we're getting is a "safe pick" who has 2nd line potential. You can easily get a top 6 forward now for a first round pick so might as well make a trade and avoid the possible failure.

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05-31-2012, 11:37 AM
  #385
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Well, hopefully it'll also be Hamilton and Viedensky. And Marleau won't go anywhere.
I wouldn't count on Viedensky. And Marleau will be a UFA by then, unless he takes a big discount, I wouldn't want to give him a $6 million per year deal.

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05-31-2012, 12:38 PM
  #386
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I wouldn't count on Viedensky. And Marleau will be a UFA by then, unless he takes a big discount, I wouldn't want to give him a $6 million per year deal.
Marleau will not get $6M on his next contract unless he somehow rebounds and has a 90 point season.

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05-31-2012, 02:29 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
You've stumbled upon the reason why DW treats his first-round-picks like chump change.
which would make sense if the draft was perfect and all the best players were picked first , but they aren't and studs like John Carlson or Shea Weber are picked in the bottom 1st round/ top 2nd round each year.

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06-01-2012, 03:04 AM
  #388
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Some interviews with prospects at the combine:

Nail Yakupov - http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip690429#clip690429
(English has improved. Talks a little bit about the KHL.)


Ryan Murray - http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip690430#clip690430
(Talks about his playing style, calls himself a two-way defenseman with a defense first mentality. Also talks about his injury and playing in the WHC at Helsinki.)


Mikhail Grigorenko - http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/#clip690434
(Talks about KHL rumors, playing through Mono, and Anaheim's foot fetish. English is really good for a guy who just came to North America last year. I will commend him on not getting snippy or having an attitude about the KHL questions, that sort of took half the interview time.)


Alex Galchenyuk - http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip690435#clip690435
(Puberty hasn't hit his voice yet. Talks about his injury. Pretty easy going with the reporters.)


Malcolm Subban - http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip690432#clip690432
(Talks about comparisons with his brother and playing style. Has only been a goalie for about six years, quite impressive. Seems confident, but not cocky like PK. Too many questions with PK...reporters are idiots.)



Side Note: Seriously reporters are idiots. You got one guy asking Galchenyuk and Grigorenko whether they speak French because apparently the world revolves around Montreal. Then there are some reporters asking Yakupov & Grigorenko whether they're annoyed by all the questions about the KHL. Clearly asking them more questions about the KHL is less annoying?

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06-02-2012, 10:46 AM
  #389
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I would love to see DW draft a fast talented winger at 17...Maybe take a gamble on Anton Slepshev if available (very possible given the much maligned "russian factor" and hasn't made commitment to NA)



However, I'm guessing we will get a slow canadian forward like normal....

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06-02-2012, 11:06 AM
  #390
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This a defenseman loaded draft. We should probably take a dman with top 3 potential. Maybe a guy like Matt Finn. Unless you are drafting in the top 10, later round fowards will only have 2nd line potential. It is probably best to go with the best player available or trade back.

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06-02-2012, 01:29 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
This a defenseman loaded draft. We should probably take a dman with top 3 potential. Maybe a guy like Matt Finn. Unless you are drafting in the top 10, later round fowards will only have 2nd line potential. It is probably best to go with the best player available or trade back.
Why do you think that they will make a smarter selection of a dman in the first round than they have in over a decade?

They need to change their late first round criteria before they go throwing away more first round picks. Properly used, those picks have enabled cup winners to stockpile complementary players for cup runs. The type of guys who provide third line scoring or shut down defense. They have failed twice on shutdown guys at that point of the first. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on . . .

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06-02-2012, 01:40 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Why do you think that they will make a smarter selection of a dman in the first round than they have in over a decade?

They need to change their late first round criteria before they go throwing away more first round picks. Properly used, those picks have enabled cup winners to stockpile complementary players for cup runs. The type of guys who provide third line scoring or shut down defense. They have failed twice on shutdown guys at that point of the first. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on . . .
The Sharks have drafted 2 Dmen in the last decade. Ty Wishart in 2006 at 17 and Petrecki in 2007 at 28. How is that anywhere near enough data say that the Sharks suck at drafting Dmen in the late first round?

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06-02-2012, 02:00 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
The Sharks have drafted 2 Dmen in the last decade. Ty Wishart in 2006 at 17 and Petrecki in 2007 at 28. How is that anywhere near enough data say that the Sharks suck at drafting Dmen in the late first round?
Just prior, Jillson. Their last hit in that part of the draft is Goc. The issue is what other teams draft in that part of the draft. It's a goldmine for skill players (offensive or two-way dmen and offensive second and third liners). The big, shutdown dmen in that part of the draft don't fare so well.

Sry10 made the point of DW treating picks in that area of the draft as chump change. The thing is that cup winning teams haven't taken it so lightly and a few have used that part of the draft to strengthen their cup run. It takes 23 or whatever number of players to win a cup, it isn't all on the big guys although they count in a big way. The secondary part of the Sharks lineup has been miserable since JT's arrival.

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06-02-2012, 02:11 PM
  #394
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Since 2000 the Sharks haven't done all that bad taking defensemen in the first two rounds...certainly better than I though without looking it up.

2002 (#52) Dan Spang
2003 (#47) Matt Carle
2005 (#35) Marc-Edouard Vlasic
2006 (#16) Ty Wishart (traded, so not a total failure as he brought an asset)
2007 (#28) Nick Petrecki next season will tell if this worked out or not

Way too early to tell:
2009 (#43) William Wrenn
2009 (#57) Taylor Doherty

It's far from great, but if Petrecki works out and then one of the other two makes it (or gets traded for an asset) it doesn't turn out to be that bad.

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06-02-2012, 02:20 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Since 2000 the Sharks haven't done all that bad taking defensemen in the first two rounds...certainly better than I though without looking it up.

2002 (#52) Dan Spang
2003 (#47) Matt Carle
2005 (#35) Marc-Edouard Vlasic
2006 (#16) Ty Wishart (traded, so not a total failure as he brought an asset)
2007 (#28) Nick Petrecki next season will tell if this worked out or not

Way too early to tell:
2009 (#43) William Wrenn
2009 (#57) Taylor Doherty

It's far from great, but if Petrecki works out and then one of the other two makes it (or gets traded for an asset) it doesn't turn out to be that bad.
Enough winning teams do better than that to say that this is an area where they can improve a lot. I made a point by segregating first from second round. The Sharks do very well (well better than average) in the second round and I have a pretty good idea as to why there is a difference between those two rounds (about 99% sure that it is criteria).

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06-02-2012, 05:07 PM
  #396
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I would love to see DW draft a fast talented winger at 17...Maybe take a gamble on Anton Slepshev if available (very possible given the much maligned "russian factor" and hasn't made commitment to NA)



However, I'm guessing we will get a slow canadian forward like normal....
Maybe he'll slip and still be available in the 2nd round? DW drafted Sobchenko last season, maybe he's slowing getting over it? And Tarasenko's coming over, so that might help?

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06-02-2012, 07:09 PM
  #397
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Maybe he'll slip and still be available in the 2nd round? DW drafted Sobchenko last season, maybe he's slowing getting over it? And Tarasenko's coming over, so that might help?
Slephyshev looks like the real deal. He's already competing well against much older men than him in the KHL. Great puck handler. Speed. Good size.

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Old
06-02-2012, 10:19 PM
  #398
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Enough winning teams do better than that to say that this is an area where they can improve a lot. I made a point by segregating first from second round. The Sharks do very well (well better than average) in the second round and I have a pretty good idea as to why there is a difference between those two rounds (about 99% sure that it is criteria).
Post the numbers. They are mostly useless, but at least there is the possibility that they'll back up your opinion to some extent. Right now your doing nothing but posting generalizations with no context.


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06-02-2012, 11:15 PM
  #399
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Post the numbers. They are mostly useless, but at least there is the possibility that they'll back up your opinion to some extent. Right now your doing nothing but posting generalizations with no context.
I have previously done the numbers and posted the links. They haven't changed for the better since I collated them. They are not opinion and I am not up to updating the data I have for all 30 teams. There have been others who do the same studies and they come up with roughly the same by-round results as I did.

Admittedly, statistical significance is difficult with a small sample size. But, the same issues keep cropping up with Sharks players picked in that part of the draft and just looking at the total picture at hockeydb says that there are other teams that are far, far more successful in that area of the draft (picks 12-30). Then go by draft position on the players on cup winners, you will find a lot of 12-30's.


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06-02-2012, 11:36 PM
  #400
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I have previously done the numbers. They haven't changed for the better since I collated them. They are not opinion and I am not up to updating the data I have for all 30 teams. There have been others who do the same studies and they come up with roughly the same by-round results as I did.

Admittedly, statistical significance is difficult with a small sample size. But, the same issues keep cropping up with Sharks players picked in that part of the draft and just looking at the total picture at hockeydb says that there are other teams that are far, far more successful in that area of the draft (picks 12-30). Then go by draft position on the players on cup winners, you will find a lot of 12-30's.
I predict they have higher and more picks. Show your work

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