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Which Kostitsyn brother do you miss more?

View Poll Results: Which Kostitsyn would you want back?
Sergei 99 43.61%
Andrei 128 56.39%
Voters: 227. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-24-2012, 07:39 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
LOL...

I take it by his lack of response that Habsterix is having difficulty finding that elusive player with equal talent, a better work ethic and similar cap hit.
Some of us have responsibilities and work for a living and not all of us are on your time zone.

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04-24-2012, 07:54 PM
  #152
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And your credibility was lost long before when, with your condescending comments, you pretended that only you knew hockey... and by taking things out of context, like you've done here once again with the Penner comment. Why? Because all I said is that I was so fed-up with AK that I'd rather have Penner instead (back then) as we knew that AK wasn't working out and a change of scenery might have worked for Penner. See how different it sounds in context?


Pacioretty, Cole, Eberle, Pavelski, Kane (Evander)... just to name a few.

Yes, I do believe that AK has the skillset and the physical attributes of those guys. The work ethics, the heart, the desire is what makes the difference.
So you'd rather have Pacioretty, Cole, Eberle, Pavelski or Evander Kane over Andrei kostitsyn?

Shocker.

We're talking about people we can realistically replace Andrei k with, so more than likely we're talking about people on the free agent market.

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04-24-2012, 08:10 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
So you'd rather have Pacioretty, Cole, Eberle, Pavelski or Evander Kane over Andrei kostitsyn?

Shocker.

We're talking about people we can realistically replace Andrei k with, so more than likely we're talking about people on the free agent market.
No that's not what I was asked. I originally said that I wouldn't want neither of them, that I'd rather have a player with similar skills but with better work ethics. Someone asked me like whom? I gave a few examples of the type of players who I feel have similar skillsets but a better work ethics. I probably could have found several others had I dug a bit.

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04-24-2012, 08:12 PM
  #154
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And your credibility was lost long before when, with your condescending comments, you pretended that only you knew hockey... and by taking things out of context, like you've done here once again with the Penner comment. Why? Because all I said is that I was so fed-up with AK that I'd rather have Penner instead (back then) as we knew that AK wasn't working out and a change of scenery might have worked for Penner. See how different it sounds in context?

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Pacioretty, Cole, Eberle, Pavelski, Kane (Evander)... just to name a few.

Yes, I do believe that AK has the skillset and the physical attributes of those guys. The work ethics, the heart, the desire is what makes the difference.
And how exactly do you know what the work ethic of AK is, or where his heart and desire are at?
All you see is him on the ice for about 15min, maybe 3 times a week on average. That is less than 1hour per week. But yes, claim to know that his heart and desire is just smaller, because he's not as ''intense'' as those guys when he skates. What a smart and logical assumption..

Here's a crazy-out-of-this-world thought for you, maybe he simply ISN'T as good as them. Ever thought of that?? Better stickhandler means he's better? No. Better skillset? How so? Because he can dangle the puck? Harder shot doesn't mean a better shot.
AK is not better than the players you listed, not to me. It has nothing to do with desire or heart.
A guy he is better than though, is Dustin Penner. No matter the context you want to play on, it NEVER was a smart idea.

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04-24-2012, 08:20 PM
  #155
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And how exactly do you know what the work ethic of AK is, or where his heart and desire are at?
All you see is him on the ice for about 15min, maybe 3 times a week on average. That is less than 1hour per week. But yes, claim to know that his heart and desire is just smaller, because he's not as ''intense'' as those guys when he skates. What a smart and logical assumption..

Here's a crazy-out-of-this-world thought for you, maybe he simply ISN'T as good as them. Ever thought of that?? Better stickhandler means he's better? No. Better skillset? How so? Because he can dangle the puck? Harder shot doesn't mean a better shot.
AK is not better than the players you listed, not to me. It has nothing to do with desire or heart.
To be fair, that's all we have to go by. AK has shown flashes of what he can do. He's a mini-Kovalev. In the same amount of time per week, can you honestly say that Cole doesn't have a better work ethics, that he doesn't try harder? Really? I've been watching (and playing) hockey for 4 decades. It doesn't make me an expert on the matter, far from that, but it allowed me to see what a hard worker does and what a guy who doesn't work looks like. AK is a lazy SOB who didn't give his best effort every game, every shift. I'm not talking about production here. I'm really talking about effort. If you can't see the difference, it's your problem and not mine. It has nothing to do with "liking" or "disliking" the guy. I could easily point out posts of mine where I've praised AK on his effort. It's just not there often enough. If it was, he'd have a career like those who I've named...

Now you can disagree, that's okay, we live in a free world and soldiers have lost their lives in order for you to be able to do just that. I simply chose to disagree with your assessment... also my right.

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04-24-2012, 08:25 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
No that's not what I was asked. I originally said that I wouldn't want neither of them, that I'd rather have a player with similar skills but with better work ethics. Someone asked me like whom? I gave a few examples of the type of players who I feel have similar skillsets but a better work ethics. I probably could have found several others had I dug a bit.
None of these guys are going to be in the same salary bracket as Kostitsyn at the same stage of their careers. The thing is when you have a guy with superior work ethic and equal talent, you have to pay for it. We all want players with $5 million skill sets and $3 million dollar salaries.

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04-24-2012, 08:39 PM
  #157
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Andrei was a semi-bust, imo.

3-4mil each for VERY inconsistent forwards...find another way to spend the money. I don't care how, but find another way to spend the money. Wish we never drafted Andrei Kostitsyn...such a waste of time and money.

Get a solid dman instead, a solid 3rd line forward who won't complain playing on the 3rd line ...keep drafting solid/young players (not as expensive in the first 3 seasons).

If a player is inconsistent...you don't keep paying him...get rid of the bum.

Good GMs find a way to improve a team...and Sergei and Andrei are not part of the solution. Nashville is good because of Rinne, Weber, Suter, Legwand...not because of Andrei or Sergei...they're just decent fillers and that's it.

Looking forward to...Louis Leblanc, Gallagher, and we should not forget that we just don't have space for bums like Andrei and Sergei (need all the $$$$$ for Price, Subban, Pacioretty...).
Rule #1: Prospects are always better....until they join the team.

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04-24-2012, 08:57 PM
  #158
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some players I know who don't give effort .... Kovalchuk,Semin,Ovechkin,both Kostitsyn, Markov,Malkin....


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04-24-2012, 09:27 PM
  #159
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To be fair, that's all we have to go by. AK has shown flashes of what he can do. He's a mini-Kovalev. In the same amount of time per week, can you honestly say that Cole doesn't have a better work ethics, that he doesn't try harder? Really? I've been watching (and playing) hockey for 4 decades. It doesn't make me an expert on the matter, far from that, but it allowed me to see what a hard worker does and what a guy who doesn't work looks like. AK is a lazy SOB who didn't give his best effort every game, every shift. I'm not talking about production here. I'm really talking about effort. If you can't see the difference, it's your problem and not mine. It has nothing to do with "liking" or "disliking" the guy. I could easily point out posts of mine where I've praised AK on his effort. It's just not there often enough. If it was, he'd have a career like those who I've named...

Now you can disagree, that's okay, we live in a free world and soldiers have lost their lives in order for you to be able to do just that. I simply chose to disagree with your assessment... also my right.
I do disagree because work ethic is a lot more complicated than watching these guys play for 1h a week.
I believe you're confusing style with work ethic. Some players like to skate slowly around, observe, looking at everything around the ice, others are full speed ahead, crashers. Now, you don't see a difference in style, all you see is work ethic.
It's not that one player has less heart, desire or will, it's just the way he's always played. The same way that got him to the NHL, and seeing how you have 4 decades of watching these guys, I'm sure you'll agree not one player in this world gets to the upper echelon of hockey without will, determination, heart, courage and hard work. Not one.
But in Mtl, if a player isn't intense on every shift, it automatically means he's lazy, which is absolutely crazy because if you're lazy, you cannot be an athlete, it's impossible.




Also, what am I to think when you say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
It has nothing to do with "liking" or "disliking" the guy.
But also say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
AK is a lazy SOB
Really, if it has nothing to do with ''liking'' or ''disliking'', you're doing a very poor job showing it.
SOB?? Really? Why is he a ''SOB''? You've never met the guy. He's never done anything bad to you. Yet you call him a ''SOB''. Ya, it really has nothing to do with you not liking him at all.


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04-24-2012, 09:33 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
some players I know who don't give effort .... Kovalchuk,Semin,Ovechkin,both Kostitsyn, Markov,Malkin....

If only they showed some heart out there, like Penner, Bourque, Cammalleri, Gomez or Kessel!

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04-25-2012, 08:04 AM
  #161
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Not a big fan of AK. He was wildly inconsistent. And I don't mean his effort-level. It was day-to-day whether or not he was going to have his skills/talents.

I will say this though. They replaced him with the lower quality clone version.(Bourque). Which leaves me scratching my head (to say the least). At least AK brought his lunch pale most nights, even if his skills were absent. Bourque really needs to work harder or quit.

I don't miss SK in the slightest. Dime-a-dozen player.

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04-25-2012, 08:51 AM
  #162
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None of these guys are going to be in the same salary bracket as Kostitsyn at the same stage of their careers. The thing is when you have a guy with superior work ethic and equal talent, you have to pay for it. We all want players with $5 million skill sets and $3 million dollar salaries.
Salary is a non-issue here. The point is that if AK had some sort of work ethics, he'd be in the same salary bracket because he has the tools and skillset to get it done.

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04-25-2012, 09:20 AM
  #163
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I don't miss SK in the slightest. Dime-a-dozen player.
Around the league? Perhaps. On our team? No way.
He'd be our 3 best winger, and you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have been our 2nd best ahead of MaxPac if he were used the same way, which means always be given the offensive zone starts, always on the first PP wave, complete our first line trio, and get top line minutes.

MaxPac had a great year, and so did Cole, but with a proper coach next year, we should expect to see their productions drop. Well, maybe not for MaxPac because he's still young and who knows where his progression will halt, but Cole should see a decrease.

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04-25-2012, 10:04 AM
  #164
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Salary is a non-issue here. The point is that if AK had some sort of work ethics, he'd be in the same salary bracket because he has the tools and skillset to get it done.
Salary is always an issue in a cap-world.

An in addition to tools, skill set and work ethic players also need to be given the opportunity to succeed.

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04-25-2012, 11:32 AM
  #165
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Salary is always an issue in a cap-world.

An in addition to tools, skill set and work ethic players also need to be given the opportunity to succeed.
How many coaches did he have in Montreal? Are you saying that none of them gave him a chance? That they are all wrong about his utilization?

As for the salary (cap hit), don't you think that they'd be willing to give him more if the effort was there? As I'm convinced that in the long run, a constant effort would equal better production?

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04-25-2012, 11:42 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
How many coaches did he have in Montreal? Are you saying that none of them gave him a chance? That they are all wrong about his utilization?

As for the salary (cap hit), don't you think that they'd be willing to give him more if the effort was there? As I'm convinced that in the long run, a constant effort would equal better production?
Not just more but also longer term than 1 and 2 year deals that to me speaks volumes to how coaches and management felt about them and their work with the club.

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04-25-2012, 11:55 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
How many coaches did he have in Montreal? Are you saying that none of them gave him a chance? That they are all wrong about his utilization?

As for the salary (cap hit), don't you think that they'd be willing to give him more if the effort was there? As I'm convinced that in the long run, a constant effort would equal better production?
Seriously, what does how many coach he had in Montreal had to do with this? How many coach did Plekanec have in Montreal? Every single time we want to bash someone, the "how many coach was fired because of him" argument comes. Apparently, Koivu was a bad player because he lasted longer than the head-coaches here.

Let me ask you, how many times did AK get the chance to play on ONE line for a long stretch? One, in his "break-out" season with Plekanec and Kovy.

All AK needs is stability. Remember the Moen-Eller-AK line? It was one of our best line at the end of season 10-11 and they continued to have success at the beginning of this season until they were splitting up. AK was on pace for 30 goals after the first 25 games of the season. AK was also on a pace for 50-55 pts last season when he started the season with Cammy-Plekanec and then GIonta-Plekanec UNTIL he was given the task of saving Gomez's ass.

As for the effort thing. I have enough. Yes he's no Gionta, he's no Plekanec, Darche or Gorges but I don't see him as a lazy player like you always seem to accuse him. Let's cut the ****. 95% of the players in the league doesn't give an effort in every shifts of every games. Getzlaf, Perry, Malkin, OV, Kovy, Staal and a bunch of other superstars are not giving an honest effort every games and some of them are ****ing captain of their team. The grass is not always greeener.

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04-25-2012, 12:04 PM
  #168
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Thanks. How much will it be for the consultation?
Hate to break it to you, friend, but if you think that the team is better with Nashville's (probably high) second round pick than with the Kostitsyn brother's, then you're so far gone no amount of consultation will help you.

Terrible coaching, development and management forced us to lose two good players for virtually nothing. This is a fact.

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04-25-2012, 12:06 PM
  #169
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The grass is not always greeener.
Clearly it is for some.

But that's the way it is here. If you don't give your 110% in every game, then you're lazy.

That's just something people who don't know what laziness actually is say.
Athlete and Lazy don't mix.

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04-25-2012, 04:20 PM
  #170
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Seriously, what does how many coach he had in Montreal had to do with this? How many coach did Plekanec have in Montreal? Every single time we want to bash someone, the "how many coach was fired because of him" argument comes. Apparently, Koivu was a bad player because he lasted longer than the head-coaches here.

Let me ask you, how many times did AK get the chance to play on ONE line for a long stretch? One, in his "break-out" season with Plekanec and Kovy.
You misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not insinuating one bit that a coach (or coaches) got fired because of AK. What I'm referring to is the number of coaches who "didn't use AK properly", how many coaches "treated him unfairly", how many coaches "didn't give him the ice time he deserved", how many coaches "didn't play him on a regular line", how many coaches "didn't know what they were doing". Those are the constant excuses we read or hear from his fans. However, there's only one common denominator: AK. Something tells me that he has something to do with it.

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Clearly it is for some.

But that's the way it is here. If you don't give your 110% in every game, then you're lazy.

That's just something people who don't know what laziness actually is say.
Athlete and Lazy don't mix.
If you ever wore a pair of skates and played at any competitive level, you wouldn't be saying that. As a matter of fact, you don't need to have done it, you just need to be around competitive hockey to know that there are players who do give a constant effort and others who don't. But yeah, it's in people's imagination.

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04-25-2012, 05:58 PM
  #171
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I'll take any 3rd line North American, Czech, Slovak, Swede or Finn over either of those two losers. They play when they feel like it. Nashville won't win anything with them on their team - Go St.Louis

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04-25-2012, 06:11 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post

If you ever wore a pair of skates and played at any competitive level, you wouldn't be saying that. As a matter of fact, you don't need to have done it, you just need to be around competitive hockey to know that there are players who do give a constant effort and others who don't. But yeah, it's in people's imagination.
We're talking the highest levels in the world, not garage league level.

You don't become pro if you're a bum.

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04-25-2012, 06:35 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Around the league? Perhaps. On our team? No way.
He'd be our 3 best winger, and you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have been our 2nd best ahead of MaxPac if he were used the same way, which means always be given the offensive zone starts, always on the first PP wave, complete our first line trio, and get top line minutes.

MaxPac had a great year, and so did Cole, but with a proper coach next year, we should expect to see their productions drop. Well, maybe not for MaxPac because he's still young and who knows where his progression will halt, but Cole should see a decrease.
His age is a factor in his favour. But he's still a replaceable player, imo. I don't think he is an impact player. Revisionist history, but if I had a time machine I would still want to try and trade SK.

Doesn't mean I agree with all the lateral moves that have characterized the Habs' management over the recent past. We haven't upgraded many of our positions through trading or free agency. And that's a big handicap. We panicked and moved guys like SK, under market value; others too. Now we have a weaker roster for it. Go figure.

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04-25-2012, 07:08 PM
  #174
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We're talking the highest levels in the world, not garage league level.

You don't become pro if you're a bum.
To some, 98% of the people don't give the effort.

Unless you have Gretzky-like ability you can't make it while being lazy.

being lazy also means not working out in the gym wich means you're in bad shape. But also in the kitchen and every day life.

You don't get away with a 3 millions dollars from a professional team by working out 2 days a week, eating Macdonalds and partying all-night sorry.

You also don't get traded to a contending team if you are a bum.

Same thing with Bodybuilding, people say heeeh, easy steroids ... Lol...

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04-25-2012, 07:09 PM
  #175
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You misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not insinuating one bit that a coach (or coaches) got fired because of AK. What I'm referring to is the number of coaches who "didn't use AK properly", how many coaches "treated him unfairly", how many coaches "didn't give him the ice time he deserved", how many coaches "didn't play him on a regular line", how many coaches "didn't know what they were doing". Those are the constant excuses we read or hear from his fans. However, there's only one common denominator: AK. Something tells me that he has something to do with it.
He always played well under Guy.

He didn't play particularly well under Martin, nor did he play as well under Cunneyworth, who turned out to be Martin-lite. Remember how well he palyed with Moen and Eller? Remember when he was mysteriously separated from them and forced to play with Scott Gomez? If that's not the definition of using a player poorly then I don't know what is.

As a matter of fact...why are we even talking about AK as though he was a poor player? Consistently a 20 goal scorer (except the season he got hurt,) big body, hits. What's the problem?

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