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Vladimir Tarasenko Discussion Thread (III) -- NHL bound (Filed with NHL)

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05-20-2012, 11:24 AM
  #326
BleedBlue42
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So the gold medal game starts at 12:30pm STL time. The game should end at about 3pm or so. Was there a time period after the game or a day or two after the game when Tarasenko might be making an announcement? Some of you might have better insight than I do. What are your thoughts?

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05-20-2012, 11:46 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
So the gold medal game starts at 12:30pm STL time. The game should end at about 3pm or so. Was there a time period after the game or a day or two after the game when Tarasenko might be making an announcement? Some of you might have better insight than I do. What are your thoughts?
"After the WC" means anytime from approx. 3:01 pm to infinity. Truth is, nobody knows. It's not like the kid is going to name an exact time (he probably doesn't even know when he's going to announce it yet). My guess would be sometime in the next week. He announced his decision to stay on 5/24 last year so approx. the same timeline would make sense for this season as well but it's all going to depend on when and how the convos go between Tarasenko, his agents, Army, anyone else he or his reps seek advice from, etc.

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05-20-2012, 11:50 AM
  #328
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This thread has turned into a total **** show

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05-20-2012, 12:47 PM
  #329
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Who cares about the weight issue. When/if he comes to the NHL, conditioning coaches will have him at a lean 8% body fat before the beginning of training camp and all of this back and forth over his weight will be a moot point and we can finally go back to talking about his contribution to the Blues and the NHL.

We are never really going to know why he didn't make the WC roster. The Blues fans(even our GM) will say its politics, Russian fans will say it was his conditioning level because they don't want their team/country held in such a poor light. Blues fans will try and defend Tarasenko because he is the most anticipated prospect in a long time, maybe ever, and they don't want to hear that Russian Jesus is not living up to the hype. I don't think we will ever really know, and I commend Tarasenko for not lashing out like the coaches are doing to him. Yes he doesn't want to hurt his chances for the Olympic squad, but I would imagine he is mad as hell about what coaches are saying about him in the press, especially after the season he just finished. Maybe it went to his head, but after being PPG in the regular season and the playoffs as a 20/21 yr old would go to most players head.

Back to the real topic, I think he will announce by the end of next week. He announced by the 24th last year and I think he would like to get it done and over with. I think it's a classy move waiting until the end of WC's, this way the team gets all of the spotlight and the young Russian superstar doesn't steal any of the teams thunder, even if it were for just a day.

I think he will be a productive Blue in his rookie year. If he stays on the third line, which if he plays to his talent level he maybe on the first line by the end of the year, he should put up 18-20 goals and 20-25 assists and would be considered a very successful rookie campaign. Could he hit 60 pts this year? It's definitely possible, but I think we may need to temper some expectations about his immediate impact. In three years should(hopefully) be a Hossa type player 35g-35a and will be the most exciting forward since Demitra. I still think Petro will lead the team in points next year, but Tank could surprise us all and put up 65 pts and the Russian Jesus legend will continue to grow.

Although what happens if he stays in Russia next year? How many of the diehards will be calling for him to be traded? I for one will be seriously disapointed, but realize that this is his decision and his decision only and it maybe hard to leave his country and move 2000 miles away to STL. It would be a huge change and it might scare him a little and the pressure to stay and increase his chances to make the Olympic team a la Kuznetsov, may outweigh his dream of playing in the NHL. It may be off in the distance, but I'm really interested what's going to happen with the KHL after the Olympics. Strickland(take it for what it's worth) talked about the KHL on 590, that the KHL maybe shrinking after the Olympics because the oil barons are getting tired of sinking piles of cash into money pit teams. I don't understand how these teams stay solvent, alot of these teams have <10,000 seat rinks and they are paying alot of these players NHL level salaries. If the Blues lose money hand over fist and we draw ~18500 every game with a national and local broadcasting revenue along with whatever revenue streams they have and they still are flat broke. How do these teams like Sibir with a 7500 seat stadium have a large payroll, not NHL levels, but even at 25mil, I dont know how they can afford it. Will that mean more of the Russian stars come over after the games in Socchi? Especially with the latest KHL tragedy of the plane crash, Cherapanov's death while sitting on the teams bench and all of the shady business practices talked about(not paying salaries, forcing higher paid players to take payouts, etc...) it should make the NHL a much more attractive alternative.

Has anyone heard about Army at the WC's? He was supposed to go over and talk to some of the Blues prospects(Tarasenko, maybe Lehtera) about coming over. I haven't seen any reports on that front and I am curious to how he's fairing over there. Let's hope Army is very convincing and can convince the Tank to cross the pond.


Last edited by Meatwagon: 05-20-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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Old
05-20-2012, 01:32 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
The Blues fans(even our GM) will say its politics, Russian fans will say it was his conditioning level because they don't want their team/country held in such a poor light. Blues fans will try and defend Tarasenko because he is the most anticipated prospect in a long time, maybe ever, and they don't want to hear that Russian Jesus is not living up to the hype.

I would imagine he is mad as hell about what coaches are saying about him in the press, especially after the season he just finished.
Fulcrum brought it up earlier on this page, and he is correct. This method is quite commonplace in Russia: the "no holds barred" approach of motivation and improvement. I played for a Russian coach briefly and it...was an experience not unlike having Gunnery Seargent Hartman as a coach.

The upshot though is Tarasenko should be at least somewhat used to this method and likely not nearly as offended as most of us on here would have been. I realize his father was the coach of the team and therefore may not have has as much exposure as some of his prospective teammates would have, but I am sure he know the territory.

That said, when I emailed a friend about this, he noted that the coach doing this was a bit more extreme than what was typical. Usually remarks that direct are kept a little less public. Whether they caught the coach when he was cranky, irritated with Tarasenko, or was informed not to beat around the bush at all with Tarasenko we will never know. I personally suspect it is a culmination of many things, including Tarasenko not being in the tip-top shape the incoming NHL players or the veteran KHLers are in. Let us say 95% of the shape he needs to be in, which is all that is required when you are only getting 10/min a game for the past two months. That will become a thing of the past very, very soon.


Quote:
Will that mean more of the Russian stars come over after the games in Socchi? Especially with the latest KHL tragedy of the plane crash, Cherapanov's death while sitting on the teams bench and all of the shady business practices talked about(not paying salaries, forcing higher paid players to take payouts, etc...) it should make the NHL a much more attractive alternative.
The medical care and the infrastructure is a very real concern when compared to the NHL, I would agree.
But a lot of the shady business practices tend to be blown out of proportion, in particular with the teams Tarasenko would likely go to (with the exception of his home-town team). Plus, you have to remember that the officials for the KHL are always trying to drive it in the the players' heads how much better the KHL is than the NHL and the like. Combined with a natural want to stay close to home that most players exhibit and it becomes very easy to understand why many do not cross the pond.



That said, Tarasenko seems to want the increased completition and has already played on one of the perennial powers of the KHL (where he spent his time on the fourth line) to get a gauge as to whether he wants to stay there. I think he comes over, he has proven he can be the top player over there, a new challenge is required.

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05-20-2012, 01:40 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
...snipped...

Although what happens if he stays in Russia next year? How many of the diehards will be calling for him to be traded? I for one will be seriously disapointed, but realize that this is his decision and his decision only and it maybe hard to leave his country and move 2000 miles away to STL. It would be a huge change and it might scare him a little and the pressure to stay and increase his chances to make the Olympic team a la Kuznetsov, may outweigh his dream of playing in the NHL. It may be off in the distance, but I'm really interested what's going to happen with the KHL after the Olympics. Strickland(take it for what it's worth) talked about the KHL on 590, that the KHL maybe shrinking after the Olympics because the oil barons are getting tired of sinking piles of cash into money pit teams. I don't understand how these teams stay solvent, alot of these teams have <10,000 seat rinks and they are paying alot of these players NHL level salaries. If the Blues lose money hand over fist and we draw ~18500 every game with a national and local broadcasting revenue along with whatever revenue streams they have and they still are flat broke. How do these teams like Sibir with a 7500 seat stadium have a large payroll, not NHL levels, but even at 25mil, I dont know how they can afford it. Will that mean more of the Russian stars come over after the games in Socchi? Especially with the latest KHL tragedy of the plane crash, Cherapanov's death while sitting on the teams bench and all of the shady business practices talked about(not paying salaries, forcing higher paid players to take payouts, etc...) it should make the NHL a much more attractive alternative.

...snipped...
This paragraph in your post stands out for two reasons.

1. Tarasenko might never come over to St. Louis. The loss would be manifold, but two highlighted aspects are not having Tank's skills and that David Rundblad is now in Ottawa's system.

The loss of Tarasenko would also mean that some fans will lose interest and clamor for Armstrong's head, although internally I am sure they think of it as a risk worth taking.

2. That the KHL is in operation is mind-blowing due to all of the points made by meatwagon and all of the others that he didn't mention. This could be a two-part exposé in Harper's Magazine examining the conflated interests of Russian social, corporate and political cultures and the question might start to become a little more elucidated. The KHL appears to be unsustainable and that might very well have to do with how it is currently structured and funded. I want to know more.

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05-20-2012, 02:10 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
This paragraph in your post stands out for two reasons.

1. Tarasenko might NEVER come over to St. Louis. The loss would be manifold, but two highlighted aspects are not having Tank's skills and that David Rundblad is now in Ottawa's system.

The loss of Tarasenko would also mean that some fans will lose interest and clamor for Armstrong's head, although internally I am sure they think of it as a risk worth taking.

2. That the KHL is in operation is mind-blowing due to all of the points made by meatwagon and all of the others that he didn't mention. This could be a two-part exposé in Harper's Magazine examining the conflated interests of Russian social, corporate and political cultures and the question might start to become a little more elucidated. The KHL appears to be unsustainable and that might very well have to do with how it is currently structured and funded. I want to know more.
What leads you to believe there is even more than the very slightest chance that that will happen? He's only 20 years old. He might wait one or two more years (IF almost everything goes wrong (in The Blues' view)). But, THAT would probably be the worst that could happen, other than the infinitesimal odds of an occurrence suchas what happened to Cherepanov) (God forbid).

Most of the very good Russian players who NEVER came over didn't have an NHL team owning their rights, who was just opening its window to several years of Stanley Cup contention. I think it would be VERY difficult for Tarasenko to make the decision to not come to St. Louis THIS summer, VERY, VERY difficult to not come until 2013-14, incredibly difficult to not come until after 2014-15, and almost non-existent, to never come, given that Blues' ownership has now stablised enough to ensure no money problems for, at least, the next 5-7 years, and the team's great management (GM/coaching/scouting team) and player assets, aiming towards assaults on The Stanley Cup in each of the next 5 years.

It's not like we have seen tremendous homesickness in him and tremendous reluctance to leave his home city (girlfriend, etc.). I doubt that living so very far away from Novosibersk (in St. Petersburg) would be much better in his eyes than being in North America.

I will be utterly shocked if he doesn't come to The Blues this summer. If, somehow, he DOESN'T come this season, if he were to NOT come the following season, you would have to scrape me off the floor with a spatula.

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05-20-2012, 02:22 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
This paragraph in your post stands out for two reasons.

1. Tarasenko might never come over to St. Louis. The loss would be manifold, but two highlighted aspects are not having Tank's skills and that David Rundblad is now in Ottawa's system.

The loss of Tarasenko would also mean that some fans will lose interest and clamor for Armstrong's head, although internally I am sure they think of it as a risk worth taking.

2. That the KHL is in operation is mind-blowing due to all of the points made by meatwagon and all of the others that he didn't mention. This could be a two-part exposé in Harper's Magazine examining the conflated interests of Russian social, corporate and political cultures and the question might start to become a little more elucidated. The KHL appears to be unsustainable and that might very well have to do with how it is currently structured and funded. I want to know more.
While it's technically possible that Tarasenko never comes over, it's very, very unlikely. There are a good number of Russians who tried to make it in the NHL and failed (as there are tons of Canadians, Americans, Swedes, Finns, etc. who fit in that category as well) but I went back a number of drafts and there isn't a single Russian who at least didn't try to make it in N.A. By all accounts, it sounds fairly likely that Tarasenko will sign with the Blues soon but if he doesn't, I still think it's very, very likely he eventually does. He says his dream is to play in teh NHL and even his dad is for him taking his gave to the NHL. Regarding Rundblad, he's a prospect for Phoenix now. Ottawa traded him for Kyle Turris earlier this season. I personally would still make the trade of Rundblad for the pick used to acquire Tarasenko.

Regarding the finances of the KHL, it's pretty well established that a lot if not most of the teams are propped up by very rich owners willing to sustain losses, usually from big oil money. From what I understand, the stars get paid quite well there but the overall payrolls still aren't anywhere near the size of NHL teams. If some of the owners there are starting to not want to prop up the league with continuous losses anymore, then yeah, I could see some problems there in terms of some of the teams surviving and also in terms of the salaries they'd be able to pay going forward. This really doesn't have much at all to do with Tarasenko though but I'm sure you can find more discussion about it on the KHL board.

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05-20-2012, 02:46 PM
  #334
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@Robb_K:

After he announced last summer that he'd stay in Russia I have consistently posted here that Tarasenko will be on the Blues roster 100% and have never posted an opinion different from that.

I'm just having a little fun while we wait for the signing. HF Boards is all about "what if".

RE: KHL

I just need to read more about it. I don't know know enough about it, but do know that it is extremely complex and is interwoven with thousands of years of culture.


Last edited by ChicagoBlues: 05-20-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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05-20-2012, 03:45 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
This paragraph in your post stands out for two reasons.

1. Tarasenko might never come over to St. Louis. The loss would be manifold, but two highlighted aspects are not having Tank's skills and that David Rundblad is now in Ottawa's system.

The loss of Tarasenko would also mean that some fans will lose interest and clamor for Armstrong's head, although internally I am sure they think of it as a risk worth taking.

2. That the KHL is in operation is mind-blowing due to all of the points made by meatwagon and all of the others that he didn't mention. This could be a two-part exposé in Harper's Magazine examining the conflated interests of Russian social, corporate and political cultures and the question might start to become a little more elucidated. The KHL appears to be unsustainable and that might very well have to do with how it is currently structured and funded. I want to know more.
Rundblad is now in Phoenix's system

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05-20-2012, 03:57 PM
  #336
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Just on KHL:

No one is trying to hide that they are losing money. Everyone also realizes that successful business, such as NHL weren't build in a few years. They are also very loud about the Plan that was put forward to eventually make money, and the current losses are openly attributed as infrastructure investment (stadiums, marketing, health control and so on).

A good indication is a country wide plan and execution in progress to improve the grassroots of hockey such as public rinks, junior hockey leagues, amateur hockey leagues and so on. Thus raising the overall public awareness of hockey and slowly emerging as countries (several) #1 sport.

And yes, they are losing money, but not as much as people think. Salaries are lower, taxes are lower and thousands of people go to games, watch TV and buy merchandise. Things are on the right track towards sustainability.

This is why you will find many Russian fans on this forum, not just myself, optimistic about the future of Russian hockey.

As for Tarasenko- it's a win win situation. If he goes to NHL - great experience! If he stays - great for the country!


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05-20-2012, 04:51 PM
  #337
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Rundblad is now in Phoenix's system
Oh yeah! The Kyle Turris trade. Thanks.

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05-21-2012, 08:20 AM
  #338
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if not mentioned..

Quote:
Генеральный менеджер СКА Алексей Касатонов заявил агентству "Р-Спорт", что полной ясности относительно будущего форвардов Владимира Тарасенко и Виктора Тихонова в армейской команде пока нет, но обоим клуб сделал предложение продолжить карьеру в Санкт-Петербурге.
google
Quote:
General Manager of SKA Alexei Kasatonov said the agency "R-Sport", that complete clarity about the future of forwards Vladimir Tarasenko and Viktor Tikhonov in the army command yet, but both the club made ​​an offer to pursue a career in St. Petersburg.
http://www.rsport.ru/hockey/20120521/598172060.html

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05-21-2012, 01:52 PM
  #339
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So it looks like SKA offered Tarasenko a contract. While I don't quite get how SKA is the team that offered him a contact since I thought it was finally determined that his KHL rights went back to Sibir, I don't think it really matters all that much as Tarasenko was going to have the choice to sign in the KHL or with the Blues regardless. If one of the Russian posters can explain how SKA can offer him a contract even though his rights are held by Sibir (something similar to an offer sheet in the NHL?) that would be greatly appreciated though.

Hopefully we'll hear something later this week.

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05-21-2012, 01:56 PM
  #340
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his rights are held by SKA. Your info about Sibir is wrong. Sibir can offer him contract as well (he is RFA) but Sibir´s offer has to be higher than SKA´s + Sibir would pay money to SKA (if Tarasenko signed with Sibir). This "money" depends on Tarasenko´s salary (some %).

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05-21-2012, 05:21 PM
  #341
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So it looks like SKA offered Tarasenko a contract. While I don't quite get how SKA is the team that offered him a contact since I thought it was finally determined that his KHL rights went back to Sibir, I don't think it really matters all that much as Tarasenko was going to have the choice to sign in the KHL or with the Blues regardless. If one of the Russian posters can explain how SKA can offer him a contract even though his rights are held by Sibir (something similar to an offer sheet in the NHL?) that would be greatly appreciated though.

Hopefully we'll hear something later this week.
If I recall correctly, SKA worked out a deal after they were knocked out to attain his RFA rights.

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05-21-2012, 07:33 PM
  #342
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i'm not a blues fan, but I really really hope he comes over. I see him being an electric NHLer for the next 15 years easily

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05-22-2012, 02:31 PM
  #343
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Not that this is a particularly good read, but the Tarasenko article at STLToday is about a worthy subject.

How good is he?

The usual journalists and other (ahem), but none of them really say very much except Wheeler. It seems they are not sure about Tarasenko, as are none of us really.

But I think Tarasenko will score from the start. His puck handling skills and bullishness will translate nicely.

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05-22-2012, 04:12 PM
  #344
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Not that this is a particularly good read, but the Tarasenko article at STLToday is about a worthy subject.

How good is he?

The usual journalists and other (ahem), but none of them really say very much except Wheeler. It seems they are not sure about Tarasenko, as are none of us really.

But I think Tarasenko will score from the start. His puck handling skills and bullishness will translate nicely.
All that article showed was their collective lack of understanding of what Tarasenko is. Only Wheeler seems to get that we're talking about an elite winger here with potential to be a dominant force in the way none of the Blues other forwards can. This board is way more familiar with Vlad and would have done a much better job putting it in perspective.


And the wind....it whispers.....Tarasenko.

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05-22-2012, 06:02 PM
  #345
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All that article showed was their collective lack of understanding of what Tarasenko is. Only Wheeler seems to get that we're talking about an elite winger here with potential to be a dominant force in the way none of the Blues other forwards can. This board is way more familiar with Vlad and would have done a much better job putting it in perspective.


And the wind....it whispers.....Tarasenko.
HF often goes overboard when rating players, especially their own prospects, and unlike some of us (myself included), these reporters don't want to come off as fanboys. That said, I don't think you're wrong here.

I actually don't mind the tempered opinions on him. It keeps the pressure off him a little — a good thing considering everything else he'll need to adjust to when he does come over. I'd rather have him come in with lukewarm press than having scribes tout him as the next Malkin.

If he shows up to camp in good shape and shows his stuff, THEN we can cue the "Russian Jesus" media hype.

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05-23-2012, 12:26 AM
  #346
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HF often goes overboard when rating players, especially their own prospects, and unlike some of us (myself included), these reporters don't want to come off as fanboys. That said, I don't think you're wrong here.
I actually don't mind the tempered opinions on him. It keeps the pressure off him a little — a good thing considering everything else he'll need to adjust to when he does come over. I'd rather have him come in with lukewarm press than having scribes tout him as the next Malkin.

If he shows up to camp in good shape and shows his stuff, THEN we can cue the "Russian Jesus" media hype.
I find their hesitancy to commit to an opinion hilarious(it's cool, no one should have asked them anyway). Not trying to pick on them here, just thought it was funny.

There will be no slowing the hype train this time(I can't even say his name without feeling like I have super powers!)

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05-23-2012, 10:39 AM
  #347
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The only reason I've been coming to the boards lately is to check this thread. Make an announcement big boy We're all waiting to hear, one way or another...

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05-23-2012, 10:45 AM
  #348
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I have a gut feeling that if he hasn't signed with us by now, he is hesitant to do so. I think we will have to wait another 2 years and he'll cross post Olympics. I hate saying that as I think he is ready now but obviously he is having a tough time pulling the trigger on an NHL deal, with that said he has been offered a SKA deal and hasn't signed that either. In a perfect world for Vova he would go back to Sibir but that looks out of the question right now.

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05-23-2012, 10:50 AM
  #349
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I'm thinking the same thing unfortunately. I assume we'd be hearing SOMETHING if this deal was anywhere close. Army is sneaky, but not that sneaky.

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05-23-2012, 11:39 AM
  #350
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I have a gut feeling that if he hasn't signed with us by now, he is hesitant to do so. I think we will have to wait another 2 years and he'll cross post Olympics. I hate saying that as I think he is ready now but obviously he is having a tough time pulling the trigger on an NHL deal, with that said he has been offered a SKA deal and hasn't signed that either. In a perfect world for Vova he would go back to Sibir but that looks out of the question right now.
I think the contract is taking a while because Army is trying to sign Lehtera and Tarasenko.

It takes time to work out some of the rookie bonuses. They will sign him to the ELC max and we can all go back to prepping a Tank statue outside of the STC

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