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Vladimir Tarasenko Discussion Thread (III) -- NHL bound (Filed with NHL)

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Old
04-22-2012, 11:29 PM
  #26
MattyMo35
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Is it possible Hitchcock saw a different skillset in Russell than the one Nikitin has? And that those skills would give a specific look to the Blues defensive unit that would allow the team to play the same system no matter who was out there? This is within the realm of possibility, right?
It's well within the realm of possibility. Like I said, I think it's all nonsense. It just worries me that one of the only Russian players on the roster got shipped out of town almost immediately upon his arrival. It's almost certainly a coincidence, but that doesn't stop me from noticing it. It's just who I am.

Edit: I meant it was a coincidence that he's Russian, not that he was traded almost immediately to the team that Hitch used to coach. I don't think there's any denying that Hitch had a major hand in that trade.

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04-22-2012, 11:34 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
It's well within the realm of possibility. Like I said, I think it's all nonsense. It just worries me that one of the only Russian players on the roster got shipped out of town almost immediately upon his arrival. It's almost certainly a coincidence, but that doesn't stop me from noticing it. It's just who I am.

Edit: I meant it was a coincidence that he's Russian, not that he was traded almost immediately to the team that Hitch used to coach. I don't think there's any denying that Hitch had a major hand in that trade.
There's no denying it, true. But Hitch wants his back end shaped in a very specific way, and Russell was the perfect guy for that. Nikitin had struggled here because of communication issues, but he still doesn't fit the mold of the slick PMD that hitch wanted. He knew what he had in Russell and wanted to make the trade. Same thing happens if it's Nick Brown there instead of Nikitin.

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04-22-2012, 11:38 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
It's well within the realm of possibility. Like I said, I think it's all nonsense. It just worries me that one of the only Russian players on the roster got shipped out of town almost immediately upon his arrival. It's almost certainly a coincidence, but that doesn't stop me from noticing it. It's just who I am.

Edit: I meant it was a coincidence that he's Russian, not that he was traded almost immediately to the team that Hitch used to coach. I don't think there's any denying that Hitch had a major hand in that trade.
There is no doubt that the trade was all Hitch. He knew Russell well from his time in Columbus, and knew our problems well and thought he could help. Other than Nikitin, there aren't really many others that could would have been realistic to move for him.

Plus, let's not forget that Grachev has had his chances under Hitch as well.

This isn't directed at you, but I could maybe understand people thinking that a coach has a problem with Euro players in general, but just one nationality? That is insane.

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04-22-2012, 11:51 PM
  #29
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What coach in the NHL implements a system and then says, "ok, fine, do whatever you want" with a player who doesn't play within that system? "My way or the highway" is pretty meaningless.

Take a look at Chris Stewart. Stewart makes mistakes, but has only been healthy scratched for one game. He still gets the kind of minutes Riha gave Tarasenko.

It's interesting how one guy is a great coach (Riha) and the other guy (Hitchcock) is some uncompromising dictator who ruins young players, especially Russians.

No coach says that....but other coaches are far less heavy handed than Hitchcock. It's likely that Hitchcocks "my way or the highway" philosophy didn't bring the best out of Nikitin, and the Blues let a solid player slip through their system.

Other coaching styles implement a system based on the strenghts and weaknesses of the players available to them. Imo, this less rigid system is generally better for player development

Its "Let's build a team around what we do best" vs "This is what I want, conform or get out"

Like I said, there is no right or wrong way.

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04-22-2012, 11:53 PM
  #30
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Correlation without causation. In this case, it's not even real correlation. It's coincidence. By openly writing that you can't overcome an irrational worry it legitimizes terrible logic and perpetuates the cycle. Now the next person reads it and thinks, wait, there's some "thing" with Hitchcock and Russians? Food for thought.

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04-22-2012, 11:55 PM
  #31
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Funny how Perron and Oshie said that they had more freedom in the offensive zone when Hitchcock became coach.

All the negative talk about Hitch is really getting old.

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04-23-2012, 12:23 AM
  #32
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No doubt Nikitin is a solid player, but its not like we got back a 3rd rounder and a bag of pucks. Personally, I prefer Russel's skill set on the third pairing over N64's.

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04-23-2012, 01:27 AM
  #33
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I said Tarasenko can definitely thrive under Hitchcock. Show me where I said Hitchcock will be a problem for Tarasenko.


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-24-2012 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Getting things back on topic
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04-23-2012, 01:32 AM
  #34
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I said Tarasenko can definitely thrive under Hitchcock. Show me where I said Hitchcock will be a problem for Tarasenko.
The topic is Tarasenko. Why would you claim Hitchcock is a my way or the highway coach if it bore zero relevance to Tarasenko?

Do you still think it's likely that Hitchcock's "my way or the highway" attitude had any impact whatsoever on the Nikitin trade? Do you understand why I would read that and not think much of your argument?

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04-23-2012, 01:51 AM
  #35
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so....any guesses on what Tarasenko's favorite subject in school was?

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04-23-2012, 02:01 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Do you still think it's likely that Hitchcock's "my way or the highway" attitude had any impact whatsoever on the Nikitin trade? Do you understand why I would read that and not think much of your argument?

Did Hitchcock have a hand in trading Nikitin?


If so, he decided not to develop a young player with an obvious skill-set (imo, a skill set better than Russell's) , but rather trade him for a player he knew conformed to HIS defensive system.

If this isn't the definition of "my way or the highway", I don't know what is.

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04-23-2012, 02:02 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
so....any guesses on what Tarasenko's favorite subject in school was?
Goal Scoring 101

Edit: my favorite quote from Tarasenko (or at least close to it): "If I have chance to pass puck or score goal, I think I score goal."

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04-23-2012, 02:15 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Did Hitchcock have a hand in trading Nikitin?


If so, he decided not to develop a young player with an obvious skill-set (imo, a skill set better than Russell's) , but rather trade him for a player he knew conformed to HIS defensive system.

If this isn't the definition of "my way or the highway", I don't know what is.
Yeah, nice try. This what you actually said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
It's likely that Hitchcocks "my way or the highway" philosophy didn't bring the best out of Nikitin

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04-23-2012, 02:17 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by wilco5886 View Post
Goal Scoring 101

Edit: my favorite quote from Tarasenko (or at least close to it): "If I have chance to pass puck or score goal, I think I score goal."
i loved that quote too

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04-23-2012, 02:25 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Yeah, nice try. This what you actually said:
Hitchcock DID NOT bring the best out of Nikitin. Nikitin was sent on the highway to Columbus before being given the opportunity to even shine for Hitchcock.

Prove me wrong

That's right "my way or the highway"

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04-23-2012, 02:34 AM
  #41
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Hitchcock DID NOT bring the best out of Nikitin. Nikitin was sent on the highway to Columbus before being given the opportunity to shine for Hitchcock.

Prove me wrong

That's right "my way or the highway"
Ah, so my point stands, then. Not actually knowing the circumstances or rationale of the Nikitin trade, you made one up to push your unsupported argument.

So ... are you going to provide a single reason why you brought this whole line of argument into the thread about Tarasenko? You claim it has nothing to do with Tarasenko. Or is your refusal to answer repeated challenges on this point a concession that the point was to argue that Hitchcock could be bad for Tarasenko?

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04-23-2012, 02:56 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Hitchcock DID NOT bring the best out of Nikitin. Nikitin was sent on the highway to Columbus before being given the opportunity to even shine for Hitchcock.

Prove me wrong

That's right "my way or the highway"
Nikitin was gone before Hitch got here with his play on the ice. Hitch wanted a player in Russell that would be the perfect compliment for Polak.

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04-23-2012, 11:37 AM
  #43
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so....any guesses on what Tarasenko's favorite subject in school was?
Awkward rap!

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04-23-2012, 01:18 PM
  #44
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Quote:
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Hitchcock DID NOT bring the best out of Nikitin. Nikitin was sent on the highway to Columbus before being given the opportunity to even shine for Hitchcock.

Prove me wrong

That's right "my way or the highway"
Nikitin didn't thrive or shine under Payne either. How does that fit your theory? Does Payne hate Russians too?

It's nearly impossible to "prove you wrong" when all you have is a theory. Nobody can prove your theory wrong just as you can't prove that the opposite line of thinking is wrong.

I only skimmed a lot of the recent posts so pardon me if I get what some have said is wrong or exactly where people stand on things but I personally don't see a problem at all with Tarasenko playing for Hitchcock. I think the "he hates Russians" thing is way overblown. To me, he doesn't like lazy players and both Filatov and Zherdev were lazy. Both players have also failed to stick with other organizations. Zherdev also failed in Philly and in NY and Filatov with Ottawa. Do coaches in those organizations also hate Russians? After returning to his KHL team, Filatov was sent to that team's Jr team and even there, where he was vastly more talented than his peers, he was benched for not giving enough effort. His Russian coach said he was just going through the motions and that if he wasn't going to try, he was going to go with the kids who got the team that far in the first place (Filatov was added very late in the season for the Jr playoffs).

It's not Hitch. Columbus drafted a couple of talented but lazy players who happened to be from Russia. They've both failed to stick in various NHL orgs. Besides, while Hitch may have been a hard-ass in the past there have been numerous reports of him talking about his change in philosophy in the last couple of years and it's pretty clear that this is a much mellower Hitch than what one might expect from his reputation. I don't foresee any problems with Hitch and Tarasenko. Tarasenko is very talented but also plays a NA type of game and most importantly, seems to be a very hard worker, is respectful, doesn't have a huge head, seems very coachable and simply does what he's told. It spoke a lot to his character IMO that he didn't say a single negative thing publicly when we was reduced to 4th line minutes after getting traded to SKA.

One final thing. This topic came up quite a bit early on in Hitch's tenure and the Blues beat writer said that the "Hitch hates Russians" thought was nonsense. No offense but I'll take the word of the guy who is with the team everyday over a bunch of theories and assumptions.

That said, I think this thread has gotten a little too adversarial in nature and a few here need to tone it down. Play nice.

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04-23-2012, 01:33 PM
  #45
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1. Prove me wrong about Hitchcock "my way or the highway-ing" Nikitin out of St. Louis whereby denying him the opportunity to thrive.....
Chris Stewart is still here. He's a young player struggling in this system. I think Nikitin's days were numbered before the coaching change, and Hitchcock already knew what he had in Russel (who's been great in the playoffs so far).

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04-23-2012, 02:46 PM
  #46
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My opinion is that Tarasenko will be here in the summer and will stay to play in St. Louis next season and beyond. He has nothing to prove in the KHL. I would not put stock in much of the press coming out about his status. And Strickland?


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-24-2012 at 01:08 AM. Reason: Getting things back on topic
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04-23-2012, 03:29 PM
  #47
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Tarasenko is unlikely to make a decision until after the KHL playoffs are over.


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-24-2012 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Getting things back on topic
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04-23-2012, 04:09 PM
  #48
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Tarasenko is unlikely to make a decision until after the KHL playoffs are over.
until the World Championships are over

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04-23-2012, 05:27 PM
  #49
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until the World Championships are over
Yeah...something like that.

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04-24-2012, 01:39 AM
  #50
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I just edited this thread from 4 pages down to 2. Think about that for a moment.

This thread (and its predecessors) have proven to be an invaluable resource for those who have come to this forum from around the world hoping to learn about or discuss Tarasenko. With that in mind, let's keep the conversation ON Tarasenko.

This is NOT an all-purpose thread for discussing Hitchcock, Hitchcock and Russians, other posters, forum discipline, or any of the many other things that have already been discussed in the first 100 posts of this thread.

Any subsequent discussion fixated exclusively on the topics of Hitchcock, Hitchcock and Russians, etc. is subject to deletion and further discipline at the discretion of the moderators. You have been warned.

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