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Vladimir Tarasenko Discussion Thread (III) -- NHL bound (Filed with NHL)

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05-13-2012, 02:48 PM
  #201
Celtic Note
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Google Translate:

Head coach of Russia Zinetula Bilyaletdinov confirmed that the team to participate in the World Cup in 2012 will join forwards Alexander Ovechkin and Alexander Semin, and explained why the forward Vladimir Tarasenko remained outside of the application for the tournament.


- What's with Vladimir Tarasenko? He spent a week in Stockholm, but did not hit the bid, and in fact considered a rising star. For him, it will be a serious blow.

- This young man still have a lot to learn. And we should understand that the World Cup is a completely different level. And for such a competition [he] should be prepared. Tarasenko was not in shape to participate in matches.

- You are upset?


- I just do not understand what it is connected [to]. I think that for Tarasenko [it] is a good lesson.

- But it was in your hands for nearly three weeks. It was impossible to bring [the] level [up] (fitness)?

- But it's not my job - to pull level [the level up]. He should arrive in the national team prepared. We have tried, of course, but it did not work - quoted Bilyaletdinov "All Sports".
I find this interesting. If it is true, then hopefully it is a wakeup call for Tarasenko. If it is political bias, then hopefully it is a motivating factor for him to come over to the Blues.

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05-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #202
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Bilyaletdinov is lucky to have Malkin. Without him Russia would be an average team. I mean Popov and Perezhogin have more points than Datsyuk. Why? Because they play with Malkin, and Dats - with Kuznetsov and Kulemin.

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05-13-2012, 02:51 PM
  #203
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The coach is clearly angry and punitive and wants to shame the kid publicly. So either Tarasenko fell radically out of shape at age 20 in about three weeks or something else is going on.

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05-13-2012, 03:01 PM
  #204
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To put it anther way, a 20 year old who has repeatedly talked about a passion for playing for his country was unrdeemably ("we tried" but there was nothing that could be done, he was too far gone) out of shape in the span of three weeks. And the coach wants to be on record saying how immature Tarasenko is ("a lot to learn").

A kid, by the way, who utterly dominated the just finished playoffs, far more than Kuznetsov. Kuznetsov signs a KHL extension, he's a second liner. Tarasenko doesn't sign, he's immature, out of shape and needs to grow up. But there are no politics involved.

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05-13-2012, 03:30 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
To put it anther way, a 20 year old who has repeatedly talked about a passion for playing for his country was unrdeemably ("we tried" but there was nothing that could be done, he was too far gone) out of shape in the span of three weeks. And the coach wants to be on record saying how immature Tarasenko is ("a lot to learn").

A kid, by the way, who utterly dominated the just finished playoffs, far more than Kuznetsov. Kuznetsov signs a KHL extension, he's a second liner. Tarasenko doesn't sign, he's immature, out of shape and needs to grow up. But there are no politics involved.
It does seem extremely strange. Perhaps Siberian can provide some info. to us - he seems more reliable than some other posters on here.

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05-13-2012, 03:33 PM
  #206
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I agree that it seems very hard to take what the coach is saying at face value, given the circumstances.

As always, though, thanks to those who go out of their way to bring information to this thread so that it might be shared with others. It's appreciated.

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05-13-2012, 03:34 PM
  #207
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Politics exists in everything even in our professional sports leagues. My sister's husband played in the big leagues for ten years and the stories I could tell you would take me a pretty long time. It's very discussing the way people project their agendas onto innocent participants but that's human nature. It's going on right here in this thread because ultimately people want to be right.

Tarasenko probably won't make any announcement about next year until after the WC out of respect.

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05-13-2012, 08:43 PM
  #208
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The gist of what Bilyaletdinov's saying is that Tarasenko has not prepared himself to perform at a higher level.

Original interview:
Link: http://allhockey.ru/news/123209/


People can have their 'theories', BUT despite dominating the KHL, its hard to ignore the fact that Tarasenko has played very poorly for the National Team all year. (2 assists in 12 games, 14 shots on goal, -1). Its not like what Bilyaletdinov is saying is coming out of left field.


Last edited by Zine: 05-14-2012 at 02:03 AM.
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05-13-2012, 09:39 PM
  #209
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Don't forget Bilyaledtinov coached in the NHL (assistant for Winnipeg and Phoenix).

Last week he praised the NHL to high heaven.....everything from individualized player training, organization, attention to detail, etc.
Link: http://allhockey.ru/news/122498/ Someone with a KHL agenda wouldn't be caught dead saying that.

Bilyaledtinov is a coach with a 'hard on' for committment, veteran players and defensive oriented hockey. I mean the guy has managed to turn Nikolai Zherdev into a semi-respectable 2 way team player.



Speculation on my part, but Tarasenko may have let success go to his head, and thought he'd win a roster spot by just showing up.
I would loved to see Tarasenko at WC; but like Bilyaledtinov said, he's still a young guy with a lot to learn about preparation and bringing your "A" game every shift.
It sucks, but this set back could be a good learning experience for Tarasenko.


Last edited by Zine: 05-14-2012 at 01:51 AM.
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Old
05-13-2012, 11:26 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman11 View Post
Politics exists in everything even in our professional sports leagues. My sister's husband played in the big leagues for ten years and the stories I could tell you would take me a pretty long time. It's very discussing the way people project their agendas onto innocent participants but that's human nature. It's going on right here in this thread because ultimately people want to be right.

Tarasenko probably won't make any announcement about next year until after the WC out of respect.
I agree that, to some point, we have to take care of ourselves, but there is a juncture where it goes from self survival to exploitation. I believe you are speaking more towards the exploitation portion of the equation. Honestly I have seen and believe that there enough good people out there to say that it is not human nature to exploit others. However, I would say that a good many people will act on their own behalf no matter how large of a disservice it is to others. In other words, IMO, it is more common practice rather than human nature. (Maybe I am being too specific and philosophical).

I also have to agree that people tend to want to be right, even if they are merely giving their opinions.
We often formulate our hypothesis based on preconceived notions and interpretations from secondary sources, which are highly susceptible to bias. I think this is especially the case with Tarasenko. We have defended him so much that if/when something comes into question regarding his potential or likelihood of playing with the Blues, e automatically defend him. Whether that is right or wrong, I can't say. It might even be that it isn't right or wrong...i.e. it just is what it is.

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05-14-2012, 03:13 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
The gist of what Bilyaletdinov's saying is that Tarasenko has not prepared himself to perform at a higher level.

Original interview:
Link: http://allhockey.ru/news/123209/


People can have their 'theories', BUT despite dominating the KHL, its hard to ignore the fact that Tarasenko has played very poorly for the National Team all year. (2 assists in 12 games, 14 shots on goal, -1). Its not like what Bilyaletdinov is saying is coming out of left field.
The whole team did suck. And stopped to suck when Malkin came. Without him we would still keep sucking. Sure Tarasenko wasn't better than most of guys. But he wasn't worse. And considering that Bykov was fired because "his team didn't have young players", what are we seeing now? Yeah, young players are still out of the team, others aren't better, and if not Malkin, we would be an average team with the most boring tactics since I don't remember what time.

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05-14-2012, 06:13 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
I agree that, to some point, we have to take care of ourselves, but there is a juncture where it goes from self survival to exploitation. I believe you are speaking more towards the exploitation portion of the equation. Honestly I have seen and believe that there enough good people out there to say that it is not human nature to exploit others. However, I would say that a good many people will act on their own behalf no matter how large of a disservice it is to others. In other words, IMO, it is more common practice rather than human nature. (Maybe I am being too specific and philosophical).

I also have to agree that people tend to want to be right, even if they are merely giving their opinions.
We often formulate our hypothesis based on preconceived notions and interpretations from secondary sources, which are highly susceptible to bias. I think this is especially the case with Tarasenko. We have defended him so much that if/when something comes into question regarding his potential or likelihood of playing with the Blues, e automatically defend him. Whether that is right or wrong, I can't say. It might even be that it isn't right or wrong...i.e. it just is what it is.
Red, I do believe you're talking out of your ass.

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05-14-2012, 08:58 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
To put it anther way, a 20 year old who has repeatedly talked about a passion for playing for his country was unrdeemably ("we tried" but there was nothing that could be done, he was too far gone) out of shape in the span of three weeks. And the coach wants to be on record saying how immature Tarasenko is ("a lot to learn").

A kid, by the way, who utterly dominated the just finished playoffs, far more than Kuznetsov. Kuznetsov signs a KHL extension, he's a second liner. Tarasenko doesn't sign, he's immature, out of shape and needs to grow up. But there are no politics involved.
I think you've nailed this, Nines...


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05-14-2012, 09:00 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Bilyaledtinov is a coach with a 'hard on' for committment, veteran players and defensive oriented hockey.
So, Russia's answer to Mike Keenan, then?

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05-14-2012, 09:16 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
The whole team did suck. And stopped to suck when Malkin came. Without him we would still keep sucking. Sure Tarasenko wasn't better than most of guys. But he wasn't worse. And considering that Bykov was fired because "his team didn't have young players", what are we seeing now? Yeah, young players are still out of the team, others aren't better, and if not Malkin, we would be an average team with the most boring tactics since I don't remember what time.
This makes me long for the 1980s Soviet ice hockey teams with the beautiful skating and constant puck cycling like a double windmill to the net.

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05-14-2012, 09:35 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Red, I do believe you're talking out of your ass.
I figured it wouldn't be a popular comment, but honesty isn't always well received.

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05-14-2012, 09:57 AM
  #217
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I figured it wouldn't be a popular comment, but honesty isn't always well received.
I was joking, it's a movie quote. lol

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05-14-2012, 11:04 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
The whole team did suck. And stopped to suck when Malkin came. Without him we would still keep sucking. Sure Tarasenko wasn't better than most of guys. But he wasn't worse. And considering that Bykov was fired because "his team didn't have young players", what are we seeing now? Yeah, young players are still out of the team, others aren't better, and if not Malkin, we would be an average team with the most boring tactics since I don't remember what time.
I feel that's pretty telling.

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05-14-2012, 11:27 AM
  #219
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Tarasenko has been playing in the KHL for quite some time now, since " The Tank " was 17 years old. A boy playing with men in the KHL. Come on man... It's time to cross the pond to the NHL with the St. Louis Blues.

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05-14-2012, 11:57 AM
  #220
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I was joking, it's a movie quote. lol
Which movie?

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05-14-2012, 12:18 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
He's out of shape? LOL...Just keep on trash talking idiot, he's a dominant player and you're mad he's leaving the Motherland.

I guess you visit every practice of Team Russia and watched every Tarasenko game this season? That "dominant" player was just terrible for the national team that plays tight defensive hockey, entirely different from his clubs. Bilyaletdinov is a big NHL fan as well. You'd better get at least some information before you embarass yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
And considering that Bykov was fired because "his team didn't have young players", what are we seeing now?

Bykov was fired because he was hated by entire Russian hockey community after his (Zakharkin's, to be entirely correct) arrogant comments, because he couldn't control players who saw him as a buddy not as a coach, because his coaching was at "let's play hockey men!" level, because the team SUCKED more and more. He actually played very young Tarasenko and Kulikov, invited Burmistrov for the 2011 WC.

If Bill says that Tarasenko wasn't ready to play at World Championship level, you gotta believe him. Maybe he really wasn't physically ready (he's built as a very big guy and maybe had some excessive weight), but I think that Bilyaletdinov's remark referred to Vova not being able to play his game. Maybe the reason was indeed thinking too much of himself after a great season, maybe he was frustrated because his team wasn't that good. Maybe just tired. Any way, it's better to be put to Earth this way (not being selected for the national team and having a lot of time to prepare yourself for the next season) than to come over, not make the Blues and waste time in the AHL.

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05-14-2012, 02:18 PM
  #222
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I think there is a bit of reaching going on with the "Anti-Tarasenko" schtick.

I think, at the most, the reason why Kuznetsov was picked over Tank is not because the Russian authority wants to screw over Tank and show him that he would not play in the Olympics...rather that they have a more vested interest in a player which has committed to play in a very good hockey league that guarantees the ability to be in every major international tournament and remains a local selling point for the KHL and hockey in Russia.

Ascribing malice to this situation I think is a misrepresentation of what is actually true.
Although, frankly, if I hear one more time how poorly Tarasenko played in international tournaments I am going to start posting stats which show that none of the youth played worth a salt the entire time.

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05-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #223
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Which movie?
The Shawshank Redemption.

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05-14-2012, 02:39 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
The Shawshank Redemption.
Flew right over my head. Can't believe I would miss a quote like that.



As for Tara, either way this really played out should be good for the kid. If he didn't play well, then he knows he better bust butt in the off season.

If it was political, then more of a reason to get to the NHL soon.

Personally, I think the kid will learn a few "Perron lessons" when he gets over here. I do however think he will adjust quicker than Perron in a lot of ways.

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05-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #225
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And to Acallabeth...Yes, I did see quite a bit of his games. Not all, but over 50%. A lot of the posters on here watched him with live streams. He didn't play well for the national team, big deal. Lots of players have bad tournaments. If the team selection was based only on merit, he wouldn't be the only skill player to be cut. Arguing that they haven't been doing whatever it takes to keep him in Russia is just...well...an interesting opinion and I'll leave it at that. We're talking about a country that players used to have to defect from to play in the NHL. They don't have to go to such actions now, but Russia is still known for strong handing whoever they can if they benefit from it.


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