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Hank bashing needs to STOP

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:10 PM
  #151
ck20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
Quote the 200 times I've said Hank is the best NYR player this series.

You don't even understand the argument. It's been about Hank vs Anderson in this series.

This conversation has been impossible. I've never said Hank is a problem. I've affirmed over and over that he isn't.

Scoring goals on Anderson is the problem.

oh. my. god.
You're saying he has to outplay Anderson. Which he has every game. The Sens as a team are outplaying the Rangers as a team though. You keep saying Hank has been outplayed by the Sens, which affirms that you think Hank is the only person on this team, but in reality it's the entire rest of the team that is being outplayed. Hank is giving us stellar play night-in and night-out and keeping us in every game until the bitter end.


You don't understand what you're trying to argue.

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04-22-2012, 04:10 PM
  #152
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Many of u guys automatically label any slightly negative comments as hank bashing.

Why is he not subjected to the slightest criticism like every one else on the team?

Is he worth the $7 mio salary cap hit?

You all sound as though he's played a perfect series. He has not eve played better than Anderson. He's overrated. Has he even won a Vezina?

Somehow, he's credited with single handedly winning games for us but the suicide blocking system doesn't get the credit it derserves in helping him achieve what he's achieved. His teammates sacrificed their lives and limbs for his stats. I bet Anderson would have just as good stats if he has guys blocking a million shots in front of him

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Old
04-22-2012, 04:11 PM
  #153
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This thread is like bait for my ignore list.

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04-22-2012, 04:15 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Many of u guys automatically label any slightly negative comments as hank bashing.

Why is he not subjected to the slightest criticism like every one else on the team?

Is he worth the $7 mio salary cap hit?

You all sound as though he's played a perfect series. He has not eve played better than Anderson. He's overrated. Has he even won a Vezina?

Somehow, he's credited with single handedly winning games for us but the suicide blocking system doesn't get the credit it derserves in helping him achieve what he's achieved. His teammates sacrificed their lives and limbs for his stats. I bet Anderson would have just as good stats if he has guys blocking a million shots in front of him
Ladies and gentlemen, the perfect example of a stat watcher.

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04-22-2012, 04:18 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
This thread is like bait for my ignore list.
I ignore threads that are intentionally trolling. This is well reasoned, and I've kept the conversation on topic, despite the slew of attempts to strawman my argument. I haven't flamed a single player, have dealt with the substance of the posts against me, plead for relevance in the argument, posted links to relevant information, no ad hominem attacks no inflammatory posts about NYR team members
,
If I'm the ignore bait cause for you in this thread, than I assume you haven't bothered to read anything I've posted and are taking offense at perceived slights.


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04-22-2012, 04:25 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
You're saying he has to outplay Anderson. Which he has every game. The Sens as a team are outplaying the Rangers as a team though. You keep saying Hank has been outplayed by the Sens, which affirms that you think Hank is the only person on this team, but in reality it's the entire rest of the team that is being outplayed. Hank is giving us stellar play night-in and night-out and keeping us in every game until the bitter end.


You don't understand what you're trying to argue.
hint: This isn't a conversation of assessing blame. Hank can play outstanding and still get outplayed by another goalie. Understand that that statement is not a paradox, and we can proceed.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
You're saying he has to outplay Anderson. Which he has every game. The Sens as a team are outplaying the Rangers as a team though.
I have time to address this point, which is actually the heart of the convo. Ok, I linked a shot chart for 3 games, and NHL video replays. The chances for both teams seem to be mostly from the outside. I can find no clear evidence while watching the games, reviewing the shot charts, or watching highlights, that Hank is dealing with substantially higher quality goal scoring chances than Anderson. Why do you believe he is, and would you mind providing proof?


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04-22-2012, 04:43 PM
  #157
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"Scoring Chance" or "Quality Scoring Chance" isn't an official NHL stat and it's subjective. Trying to make an argument with some little chart that shows where a shot or shots were taken from doesn't take into account: the velocity of the shot, defenders screening the goalie or attempting to block the shot, or the opposition's players that might or might not be screening the goalie. There is no quantifiable way to make an argument, factually, for or against who is facing the highest quality of shots other than drawing your own conclusions.

This Ottawa blog, the 6th sens, for example has Ottawa leading in "Scoring Chances" 51-41 (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/hoc...coring-chances) through the first three games by reasoning of where the shot(s) were taken from on the ice. Like I said, however, there are various factors that aren't taken into consideration here.

It can't be factually argued that Anderson has played "better" or "as good as" Lundqvist or vice-versa. It's a matter of opinion. It -CAN-, however, be argued that the Senators have played better (as evidenced by their lead in the series, their superior face off %, their superior puck possession, their more goals for and less against, their more shots for and less against, etc...) than the Rangers have.

Bottom line: this is a team sport and our team is losing because of our TEAM game and not because our goalie isn't playing as well as theirs. It's close, but IN MY OPINION, Lundqvist has been the better goalie and has faced the more difficult shots, made the better saves, and has had more bodies in front of him than Anderson has.

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04-22-2012, 04:44 PM
  #158
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I agree based on:

1)5 goals in the last 4 games for the offense

I disagree because:

1) He never has been a CuJo, he never ever stole us a series and now might have one stolen. Not what I expect.

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04-22-2012, 05:05 PM
  #159
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Last night was a good example, Hank lets in a pretty soft goal and then shuts the doors afterwards. It was a lucky goal for the Sens and if he makes the save there, his play would have led us into OT where we still might have won the game if someone decided that they wanted to actually try to put the puck in the net instead of throwing it at Anderson from **** locations and hoping for a lucky bounce. Lundqvist was good last night and has been good all series long, the guys playing in front on him need to step it up or else Hank will be leading them onto a golf course.

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Old
04-22-2012, 05:27 PM
  #160
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I don't think that was a soft goal. It was a tricky play by Stone and a great release of a shot by Spezza in pretty close.

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04-22-2012, 05:31 PM
  #161
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Spezza scoring from the circle isn't a soft goal. As it wouldn't be on the other end if Gaborik scored from that spot. Simply an elite shooter scoring a goal.

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04-22-2012, 05:32 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Many of u guys automatically label any slightly negative comments as hank bashing.

Why is he not subjected to the slightest criticism like every one else on the team?

Is he worth the $7 mio salary cap hit?

You all sound as though he's played a perfect series. He has not eve played better than Anderson. He's overrated. Has he even won a Vezina?

Somehow, he's credited with single handedly winning games for us but the suicide blocking system doesn't get the credit it derserves in helping him achieve what he's achieved. His teammates sacrificed their lives and limbs for his stats. I bet Anderson would have just as good stats if he has guys blocking a million shots in front of him
This "suicide blocking" system you speak of. I hope you realize that the Rangers didn't implement it by accident. Tortorella is a damn good coach in this league, as was Renney who played a similar, collapsing system for the Rangers. You know why it exists? To play to the Rangers strength, which is their defense, in particular, their GOALTENDER. The more the play is kept to the outside, the more scoring chances are decreased, for both teams. The more scoring chances are decreased, the outcome of the game comes down to which goalie is going to blink first. And it's rarely Lundqvist.

If the Rangers had anything better than sub-par offensive ability, they would play a more open system to create more chances for themselves, and to take zone time away from the opponent. Problem is, that if you take this Ranger team, and put them in a game of trading chances back and forth, there is no way on planet earth that they are going to outscore teams with a lineup of exactly one natural goal scorer on it. Tortorella/Renney are not dunces and therefore have had the Rangers playing the only way that their roster can win a lot of games, and that's by playing a style that eliminates the open ice, eliminates lanes, knocks chances down, and relies on Henrik Lundqvist to slam the door on just about everything he sees. Which he did. All the way to a first place finish in the Eastern Conference in the same division as the likes of Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and New Jersey, on a team with exactly one player who can score a goal not by virtue of hard work and system play.

How someone can use the Rangers' style of play as fuel to CRITICIZE Lundqvist is absolutely beyond me. Their style of play is dependent on Lundqvist routinely winning games for that team almost by himself, which he does with unparalleled regularity in the sport, and instead youre writing that any NHL goalie, including Craig Anderson of all people, could do the same thing? I'll let you in on an outsiders secret. Every fan of every other NHL team would love to test your "Craig Anderson can be just as good as Lundqvist on the Rangers" theory out in real life next season.

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04-22-2012, 06:08 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, the perfect example of a stat watcher.
1-7 in OT playoffs..makes $7 million a year

I guess these stats don't matter.

Oh I forgot, if it wasn't for him we wouldn't even be in the playoffs.

It's funny how no one says anything about the $7 mil..I bet none of you guys even knew he's making $7 mil..lol

We kill gabby and ritchie once in a while for how much they make and how they should play given their salaries..but oh not the "king"..he deserves every penny

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04-22-2012, 06:14 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
1-7 in OT playoffs..makes $7 million a year

I guess these stats don't matter.

Oh I forgot, if it wasn't for him we wouldn't even be in the playoffs.

It's funny how no one says anything about the $7 mil..I bet none of you guys even knew he's making $7 mil..lol

We kill gabby and ritchie once in a while for how much they make and how they should play given their salaries..but oh not the "king"..he deserves every penny
$6.8 million cap hit. Every hardcore Ranger fan knows the cap hits for most players on the team. No need to criticize people for not knowing that stuff. You just come off foolish. For a man who has carried the Rangers to the post season numerous times, it is well worth it.

$7.5 million for a single goal, and $6.7 million for a single goal from a former Conn Smythe winner is NOT cutting it. As much as Lundqvist is the face of the franchise, with the two contracts Richards and Gaborik signed, each are of equal importance to the teams success. This year, they're the ones not getting it done. Period. So, they do deserve the criticism.

That said, I'm not one of the people who think we should trade Gaborik. Gaborik scored 41 goals, and was our second best player after Lundqvist all season. If it wasn't for Gaborik, we wouldn't have won the Conference. That said, I expected a lot more from him in the post season. Lundqvist met my expectations in the post season. Gaborik hasn't.

And now I can firmly state I think Richards was a bust in his first season. Scored plenty of big goals throughout the season, potted 67 points (sub par season), and hasn't scored a big goal in the post season.

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04-22-2012, 06:15 PM
  #165
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Well, to be fair, Lundqvist didn't sign a 50 year contract like some of these other goalies. Bryzgalov is really making $10,000,000.00 this year and Luongo made $10,000,000.00 last year. How do those two look compared to Henrik?

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04-22-2012, 06:45 PM
  #166
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Well, I never thought opining that I think Hank is overrated would prompt such lengthy responses from an islander fan..maybe he never saw Billy smith or chico play in their hey days and is used to their current crappy goaltending. Wonder if he knows who drafted Montoya?

Anyway, I hope we come back and win this thing.

And of course I would be foolish to not think that we all know as a franchise, we have only come back from a 3-2 deficit only once ('94 with Ritcher).

If we come back, Hank will have at least one same stat as Richter (oops, I forgot - stats are not for watching).

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04-22-2012, 07:02 PM
  #167
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I think Hank is outplaying Andy. We are talking two goalies both having a phenomenal series. Look at the numbers. I think that as good as Andy was yesterday, Hank made the harder saves to keep the Rangers in it.

The group of 12 forwards are the players responsible for being behind. Really, if anything the defense has proven itself moving forward for next year. The forwards...not so much. Series isn't over yet, I can see this going 7. But, a lot of players are experiencing how difficult it is to play when there are expectations. Reminds me of the years when we had a lot of stacked players...Hossa, Alfie, Havlat, Heatley, Spezza, etc...in 05-06 and we lost. Players have to learn how to deal with expectations.

I have a feeling that Richards will be a key tomorrow night, either in a good way or bad way. The Conn Smythe winner will have to lead tomorrow.

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04-22-2012, 07:06 PM
  #168
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Some of the responses by some of you guys really, really make me wish/hope that Lundqvist will finally do something he should have done maybe a season or two ago: Ask for a trade.

And I wouldn't blame him.

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04-22-2012, 07:18 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Many of u guys automatically label any slightly negative comments as hank bashing.

Why is he not subjected to the slightest criticism like every one else on the team?

Is he worth the $7 mio salary cap hit?

You all sound as though he's played a perfect series. He has not eve played better than Anderson. He's overrated. Has he even won a Vezina?

Somehow, he's credited with single handedly winning games for us but the suicide blocking system doesn't get the credit it derserves in helping him achieve what he's achieved. His teammates sacrificed their lives and limbs for his stats. I bet Anderson would have just as good stats if he has guys blocking a million shots in front of him
Good Post.. Hanks seems to walk on water on these boards. There is no credit given to the players and the system they are using which is a defensive shut down system.

However, Hank is having a real good series and so is Anderson. It just seems Anderson is making the clutch save at the clutch moment right now. The series is not over. Hank can create his legacy in these playoffs right now. It should be an interesting game 6.


Last edited by msv957: 04-22-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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04-22-2012, 08:33 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
... Again if you're quoting me to engage, the point of my argument is that Hank needs to steal this series for us. Because IMHO Anderson is stealing this series for the Sens. Their offense is not overwhelming. Their defense is lackluster. Our offense is out-to-lunch, and my contention is that that's largely due to Anderson's play.
So while our offense is out to lunch, dumb mistakes are being committed all over the ice and our defense is getting exposed way more than our loss of offense covers for, Hank is supposed to steal the series by himself? The "goalie x steals the series" seems to have gotten to some heads, because it isn't as simple as that. It's never as simple as that. Maybe for Hasek, but that's about the only one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
The butterfly is a stance that requires the goalie to be there, in stance, awaiting the shot. Not moving as the puck is fired, which produces holes.

Goalies avoid being beat up high from that range by staying tall, and being out, challenging the shot and thereby cutting off the upper angles to the net… forcing a shooter to find a hole between the arms and the body.

Lundy plays deep which allows him some phenomenal late reaction saves. That play he should've challeneged and been in butterfly before the shot got to him. Spezza's only options were 5 hole and short side.
Seems someone didn't remember the criticism from earlier years because Lundqvist played too much of a butterfly, getting exposed up high, because he played exactly like you think he should. Have you seen where the Sens have tried to shoot this series? Up high, because they know he's damn near unbeatable down low.

Breaking down a play in slow-mo is so much easier than reacting within a second, isn't it? If Hank would've gone down in the butterfly before the shot and Spezza would've roofed it, I guarantee you would be in here complaining he got exposed up high and that he should've expected it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
I couldn't have said it better myself. In the game 4 OT goal, he did exactly that and it beat him high on the glove side. If he had moved out a bit, it would've hit him.

He was the right guy at the right place and leveraged his popularity to become the highest paid goalie in the league. He had the benefits of Renney's trap and torts suicide blocking system his entire career. And yet, he still can't win an OT playoff game in his last 7 tries.

He's overrated, average or slightly above average at best. I can't see how we can win the Cup with him.
Beat up high? But according to the guy you seem to agree so much with, he should be down in the butterfly already? Turris shot was hard, accurate and screened. Just because it was an OT goal, it doesn't make it any less true. How nice it would be if our team scored on a great shot once and then instead of releasing it like Scott Gomez.

If we were to wait for the teams we've dressed in these years to score in OT in the playoffs, they would still be playing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Many of u guys automatically label any slightly negative comments as hank bashing.

Why is he not subjected to the slightest criticism like every one else on the team?

Is he worth the $7 mio salary cap hit?

You all sound as though he's played a perfect series. He has not eve played better than Anderson. He's overrated. Has he even won a Vezina?

Somehow, he's credited with single handedly winning games for us but the suicide blocking system doesn't get the credit it derserves in helping him achieve what he's achieved. His teammates sacrificed their lives and limbs for his stats. I bet Anderson would have just as good stats if he has guys blocking a million shots in front of him
You seem to miss something fundamental. If a shot is blocked, it doesn't reach the net. It doesn't count as a goalie save. We have blocked a ton of shots. Yet, how can Lundqvist have faced more shots than Anderson? Shouldn't he have faced way less to make your argument true? We have consistently been outplayed this series. Shot blocking doesn't pad stats, it decreases them, because when an attempted blocked shot gets through and hits the net (and we try to block everything, not selectively), chances are good it will be deflected, screened or both. It may help to win games, but it sure as hell isn't padding any goalie stats, more of the opposite. Shot blocking doesn't stop breakaways and oddman rushes either, which was pretty apparent in game 5 and has been in this series.

It takes heart to block shots. It takes heart and skill to win the Cup, this team lacks one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Well, I never thought opining that I think Hank is overrated would prompt such lengthy responses from an islander fan..maybe he never saw Billy smith or chico play in their hey days and is used to their current crappy goaltending. Wonder if he knows who drafted Montoya?...
Or maybe because even rival fans realize how ridiculous this thread is, because they have personally experienced less than stellar goaltending and know what they're comparing with? Just a food for thought.


This thread (or more of the need for it) is embarrassing and makes this entire board a laughing stock. The "spoiled NYR fans" fuel is growing by the day.


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04-22-2012, 08:35 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
1-7 in OT playoffs..makes $7 million a year

I guess these stats don't matter.

Oh I forgot, if it wasn't for him we wouldn't even be in the playoffs.

It's funny how no one says anything about the $7 mil..I bet none of you guys even knew he's making $7 mil..lol

We kill gabby and ritchie once in a while for how much they make and how they should play given their salaries..but oh not the "king"..he deserves every penny
Not worth the 7 mill?

Please, go take your trolling somewhere else.

Give me a break.

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04-22-2012, 08:36 PM
  #172
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As a Flyers fan, i gotta tell you i find it really crazy that folks would even consider bashing Hank ! I wish we had him in Philly....If for some reason your club was to get eliminated i am sure the media and some fans will start the lunacy about how hank can't win in the playoffs blah blah blah.....I guess controversy is what some folks thrive on ? And at times they like to make up the controversy ! Hank is one heck of a goalie !
This. I saw the title of this thread in the Atlantic division area and was astonished. In 2007 I knew Hank would be the next great one (with Brodeur's time running out)...and he is. He is that good. 29 teams in the NHL would salivate at the chance to have him. I love Bryz, he became my fave goalie in 07, but come on...there's only one Hank, I hate it, but it's true.


Last edited by FlyersMania2: 04-22-2012 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Ipad auto correct fail
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04-22-2012, 08:39 PM
  #173
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this is a worthless thread glad i didnt read anything, anyone against henrik is a complete and utter ****in moron. get your head out of ur ass cant hold him responsible for giving up 1 or 2 goals when the team in front of you cant even score 1 FREAKIN GOAL. get your eyes checked

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04-22-2012, 08:54 PM
  #174
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I just find it so funny how all the Hank bashers right now are claiming he just "hasn't made that big save". Or he needs to "carry" us.

Big save? Oh yeah, I forgot none, not like he didn't make 3 breakaway saves after our incompetent D gives up TO after TO just last night.

"Carry us"? Sure, he does, which he's doing right now. Without Hank this series is over already so please, don't give me that BS. 1.78 GAA and over 94% SV yet he's not playing well enough. What else does he need to do? Post SO after SO? As a 1 seed, that shouldn't be needed....or for any other goalie.

What goalie right now would have us in a better spot right now? Please tell me, i'd love to hear.

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04-22-2012, 08:55 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
I just find it so funny how all the Hank bashers right now are claiming he just "hasn't made that big save". Or he needs to "carry" us.

Big save? Oh yeah, I forgot none, not like he didn't make 3 breakaway saves after our incompetent D gives up TO after TO just last night.

"Carry us"? Sure, he does, which he's doing right now. Without Hank this series is over already so please, don't give me that BS. 1.78 GAA and over 94% SV yet he's not playing well enough. What else does he need to do? Post SO after SO? As a 1 seed, that shouldn't be needed....or for any other goalie.

What goalie right now would have us in a better spot right now? Please tell me, i'd love to hear.
I concur we should be taking it out on Brandon Prust.

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