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Sens @ Rangers - Game 5

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Old
04-22-2012, 10:36 AM
  #576
Graves94
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
He is, big time.

Torts has been out-coached all year when it comes to a team who doesn't play in to Torts' hands. The two biggest weaknesses he has as a coach are a.) as soon as a line starts slumping or the team has a bad game, he throws the lines in to turmoil and fails to return them to their prior state afterwards. I could understand shaking things up in a bad game, but put the damn lines back together the next game. Not to mention his shake-ups almost never work because when he mixes things up he tends to throw 3rd and 4th liners who might be having a good game defensively, on the second and 1st lines. However these guys still couldn't score to save a burning orphanage. He relies way too much on guys who can only be relied on not to let the other team score, versus helping themselves score. There is not enough top-6 talent on this team to do what he does, effectively.

Then b.) he has ZERO ability to adapt to the other team's system or game when his own isn't working or he is being out-coached. He is so stubborn it is beyond frustrating. He's like a child sitting there with his plastic mallet trying to smash that square peg in a round hole. Like people were saying last night, he'd rather take the 1-2 goal loss that is a "pat yourselves on the back for effort" rather than go for the gutsy moves that could put his team up, or match what the other team is bringing.

Yeah they were getting shots on Anderson last night, but how many of them were good shots of those 40? Five, ten? Ten would be generous. The team pre-March was moving the puck the best I've seen in years most nights. They were brilliant 5 on 5 at times, especially against teams his system works well on. Where has that team gone? That team was never really there against Ottawa in the regular season and it's not now. People say the regular season doesn't matter, playoffs are different, but Ottawa is proving sometimes it is the same, and one of the biggest reasons for that is because John "Safe is death" Tortorella is letting it be the same.

He could be a great coach if he would just learn to take risks or adapt to the situation. "Playing our game" is fine, but when "your game" consists of blown leads, letting the other team sniff comebacks even in a win, and relying on Brian Boyle to score all your GWG, you need to play a new game.

If John comes out in game 6 and changes how he handles Ottawa and makes a statement win, then does the same in game 7, win or lose, I will probably be less inclined to say he needs to go. The Capitals sat on Boudreau far too long with their first and second round exists which were very much him being out-coached a majority of the time. The Rangers should not do the same. This team is young, and has some potential. Fix the lack of offense, fix the face-offs, and if John doesn't want to learn to change what isn't working, fix him too.
I agree with most of what you've stated.

I believe the Rangers are a .500 team from the all star break, and most of the team looks gassed. He over plays a lot of guys, and in the end, it comes back to bite you.

Rangers have had problems all year with speedy, creative offensive teams (Ott, Pitt, Mtl...), and nothing has been done to address/counter this during the year and now in the playoffs. Our biggest edge against Ottawa was supposed to be our physical play, but after game 1 Ottawa adapted, and we now how they began Game 2. MaClean put in Carkner and Konopka, and the message was sent, and they've played great for them ever since, especially Konopka.

The PP looks terrible, and sucks the life out of the team, gets the crowd out of the game, and boosts the oppositions confidence. It is inexcusable to have the same breakout play, and the patty cake passing in the offensive zone. Get guys going to the net and shoot the puck and hope for screens, deflections, tip-ins and rebounds.

Effort wise, I thought we played our best game of the series last night, but made life way to easy for Anderson. I agree when you say that out of the 40+ shots last night, maybe 5-7 were prime scoring chances, and that is not acceptable for a team playing at home, in a crucial playoff game. We should be getting that many great scoring chances per period.

I think Hagelin's return will benefit Gaborik and Richards, and hopefully will energize the team. Boyle's loss will/can be huge, especially since he's been our best face off guy so far, and has taken almost 40% of the draws for us.

Finally, I'm encouraged by the fact that Karlsson and Gonchar look tired/worn down, and have not been a factor in the past few games. We must continue to hit them, but not go out of our way like we did last night on several occasions on other players, and create an odd man rush the other way.

Trying to stay positive...

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04-22-2012, 10:43 AM
  #577
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NO , that I'd BS . if Torts balls matched his surly chip on his shoulder attitude he would have one of his players goad Konopka into fights . I'll take the trade off of their best FO man off the ice for Rupp or BICK .
same goes for Neil .
Right now Torts the pig headed arrogant CLOWN is getting ASS REAMED by Maclean .
He should be fired and bring in a coach and a few players who can make a pass tape to tape and have a shoot first score mentality .
The 6 goalie system is an EPIC FAIL .

Shot blocks may help decide the score but last I checked GOALS ARE ALL THAT COUNTS

FIRE TORTS
FIRE SATHER

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04-22-2012, 10:53 AM
  #578
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Game 1 should have set the tone for the series. They were physical, dictated the play, looked confident, and played with intensity.

Instead it was Game 2 that ended up setting the tone for the series. They took the lead in the 3rd with Boyle's goal and played flat after that. It seems like the subsequent game-tying goal and OT winner by the Sens not only deflated them in that game, but for the rest of the series. If not for Hank's stellar play in Game 3, they probably would have lost that game, and it was a foregone conclusion that they would blow the lead in Game 4. Last night, they seemed to have accepted the fact that they weren't going to score on Anderson, and didn't really screen him or crash the net or do what was necessary to throw him off his game with any consistency.

I'm a little concerned about this team's mental toughness and their ability to overcome adversity. The next game will be very telling.

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04-22-2012, 11:07 AM
  #579
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Lay down the law

Send this line up over to Paul Mac
Rupp Bickel Prust
Scott ?
Neil and KONOPKA are winning this series not Karlsson and SPEZZA .
Deal with it
TORTS = most over rated coach in history .
In their prime
Bulin
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Dan Boyle
Modin
Brad
With andreychuck etc won the cup I coulda coached that team

Torts sucks

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04-22-2012, 11:21 AM
  #580
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If this offense doesn't wake up tomorrow, we're cooked plain and simple.

Ottawa crowd will be going nuts. Hagelin will be booed mercilessly. The Rangers better come out with fire.

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04-22-2012, 11:22 AM
  #581
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Neil has been a much larger factor in this series than any of our tougher players. Like him or not--it's true and it speaks to the mix of talent and grit it takes to win a championship. You can't just rely on out skilling other teams.
That is really the point, isn't it? The fact of the matter is that it is not Karlson or Spezza that the Rangers have no answer for, it is Neil. The Rangers do not back down and will fight anyone and will play physical with anyone. BUT they do not have an answer when the game turns outright nasty. The team is very physical and tough, but they have no mean streak at all.

And that is where they are being outdone. Neil and Knopka are playing nasty and mean. And the Rangers clean game is not working.

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04-22-2012, 11:23 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
With andreychuck etc won the cup I coulda coached that team

Torts sucks
REALLY? I mean REALLY?

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04-22-2012, 11:26 AM
  #583
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I like Tortorella when he came on board, a few years back, but his coaching style leaves alot to be desired. So many of you guys hit the nail on the head your posts about him.

He has been exposed. Sullivan is useless. They both should be fired for their total inability to coach a powerplay for the past 3-4 seasons. It's absolutely unacceptable!

Frankly i don't see Torts going anywhere soon. Management is going to bring him the "horses" he needs. We have the goaltending, we have a good young defense. We need scoring and a Powerplay and we'll address those issues this offseason.

I'm not going to say im not dissapointed, but I knew this year we weren't contenders. NOT GOOD if we don't make it out of the first round, but its all on Torts if you ask me. Give Krieder a full camp, bring in another scorer and a Puck moving, shooting defenseman and
we'll be in good shape!

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04-22-2012, 11:29 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Game 1 should have set the tone for the series. They were physical, dictated the play, looked confident, and played with intensity.

Instead it was Game 2 that ended up setting the tone for the series. They took the lead in the 3rd with Boyle's goal and played flat after that. It seems like the subsequent game-tying goal and OT winner by the Sens not only deflated them in that game, but for the rest of the series. If not for Hank's stellar play in Game 3, they probably would have lost that game, and it was a foregone conclusion that they would blow the lead in Game 4. Last night, they seemed to have accepted the fact that they weren't going to score on Anderson, and didn't really screen him or crash the net or do what was necessary to throw him off his game with any consistency.

I'm a little concerned about this team's mental toughness and their ability to overcome adversity. The next game will be very telling.
Again, here is where i see this coach being TOO large of a personality within the structure of this team's identity. You hear all year long how the rangers have been "buying" in to what torts is selling. great, but for better or worse. The rangers just stay in their system whether they are winning or losing and that's bothered me for the past several seasons under torts.

Players are too afraid to have an identity on the ice and come out of themselves. Part of the issue is we just have the tools to do that.
maybe to a certain degree Tortorella knows that.

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04-22-2012, 11:33 AM
  #585
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This isnt about hockey anymore. Thats just the mask we put on it. But you can put any mask on this. This now comes down to who has bigger balls, and who wants it more..until now that has proven to be Ottawa. I dont care what seed you are or who is on your team. And if the Rangers want it more than Ottawa they will win the remaining two games. LGR!!!!!!!!

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04-22-2012, 11:34 AM
  #586
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If the Rangers had a competent powerplay, this series is over in 5 at most.

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04-22-2012, 11:38 AM
  #587
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^ this
Our players play scared of getting yelled at . Screamers for coaches dont work .
Maclean is playing Torts like a fiddle .
Torts is being exposed for what he is an over rated Tyrant with a Napolean complex who wasn't talented enough or big enough to play big time hockey . He is not a tactician or a teacher . He is a taskmaster . OTT has rallied around Macleans attitude and respect the fact he's BEEN IN A FEW PLAYOFF WARS and understands what they going through .
Their rookie a few hours out of juniors played PP . Ours after beating OTT entire team up the ice and getting one of our best chances sat for almost 17 min after that ? Maclean probably told his kid to go out and have fun and play your game . Out kid playing like he's afraid big bad midget clown torts will yell at him .

ALL YOU TORTS APOLOGISTS WAKE UP HE IS ONCE AGAIN BRING OUT COACHED

ANY ONE COULD HAVE COACHED BOLTS TO A TITLE WITH THAT SQUAD OF ALL STARS AND HALL O FAMERS TO BE

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04-22-2012, 11:39 AM
  #588
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Sullivan might leave the Rangers to coach the Flames this summer anyway which I'm fine with. Perry Pearn ran a better PP than him.

The Rangers problem is the bottom 6 gritty guys don't score enough. I love Feds/Prust but they play too many minutes and don't produce enough offense this year.

This team needs to bring in guys like David Jones and maybe talk to San Jose about Ryan Clowe this offseason.

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04-22-2012, 11:42 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post

ANY ONE COULD HAVE COACHED BOLTS TO A TITLE WITH THAT SQUAD OF ALL STARS AND HALL O FAMERS TO BE
Sorry, but you lose immediate credibility when you say stuff like the above. You can't take away a title from the coach or the players because of the roster. If anything, as a Rangers fan, you should realize that an "all star hall of fame" roster guarantees NOTHING. Not even a playoff spot. Plenty of evidence around here to prove that.

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04-22-2012, 11:52 AM
  #590
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Thing is they were all stars mostly who came up together not past their prime mercenairies .

Dan Boyle , BR ,ST LOUIS , and LECAV , plus khabibulin in his prime and add a vet like Dave Andreychuk .... Yeah these were not a roster of mercenaries .....

Wake up I don't care about reg season Torts system is failing . His refusal to answer the bell against maclean set the tone for their impending elimination

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04-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #591
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I like Tortorella when he came on board, a few years back, but his coaching style leaves alot to be desired. So many of you guys hit the nail on the head your posts about him.

He has been exposed. Sullivan is useless. They both should be fired for their total inability to coach a powerplay for the past 3-4 seasons. It's absolutely unacceptable!

Frankly i don't see Torts going anywhere soon. Management is going to bring him the "horses" he needs. We have the goaltending, we have a good young defense. We need scoring and a Powerplay and we'll address those issues this offseason.

I'm not going to say im not dissapointed, but I knew this year we weren't contenders. NOT GOOD if we don't make it out of the first round, but its all on Torts if you ask me. Give Krieder a full camp, bring in another scorer and a Puck moving, shooting defenseman and
we'll be in good shape!
I read somewhere that torts was a pp specialist. I laughed and closed the article

I really agree that this is gonna be a disappointing year. again.

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04-22-2012, 12:05 PM
  #592
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Torts after our last Reg. Season game:

"This team here, the New York Rangers, can beat any team in this league. We're just looking forward to getting started in the playoffs."

Oh really, Torts? Well...they'd better start playing like it.

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04-22-2012, 12:06 PM
  #593
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Well I like Torts as a coach but I think Sullivan should go. They need to bring in a guy who is tactically strong.
Aka we need a plan 'b'. What do we do if the cycle play isn't working?

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04-22-2012, 12:07 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Thing is they were all stars mostly who came up together not past their prime mercenairies .

Dan Boyle , BR ,ST LOUIS , and LECAV , plus khabibulin in his prime and add a vet like Dave Andreychuk .... Yeah these were not a roster of mercenaries .....

Wake up I don't care about reg season Torts system is failing . His refusal to answer the bell against maclean set the tone for their impending elimination
2003-4 Red Wings, for example: Chelios, Draper, Hasek, Holmstrom, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Hudler, Kronwall, McCarty, Joseph, and Brett Hull. Bunch of light weights.

2003-4 Flyers, Scrubs like Recchi, LeClair, Amonte, Roenick, Gagne, Primeau, Zhamnov, Desjardins, Comrie, Sharp, Seidenberg, Burke.

Yeah, you know, I don't know why they even bothered having the playoffs that year. Should've just given TB the Cup and forgotten about it. Clearly, there was no competition.

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04-22-2012, 12:08 PM
  #595
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Well I like Torts as a coach but I think Sullivan should go. They need to bring in a guy who is tactically strong.
Aka we need a plan 'b'. What do we do if the cycle play isn't working?
What i dont understand is the fact that Sully is doing most of the talking and speaking to the players. Torts is only yelling at them. Sullivan's system fails. Honestly if I was anyone important I'd be asking Keenan to come back. that's just my opinion. But i think coaching needs to be improved and or shaken up

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04-22-2012, 12:08 PM
  #596
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I read somewhere that torts was a pp specialist. I laughed and closed the article

I really agree that this is gonna be a disappointing year. again.
he was that is how he got his first head coaching job in the NHL...
when he came to coach NYR he said in an interview, "...the head coach needs to run the pp cuz he needs to know who his best players are..."

in a recent interview on behind the bench he said "...schoeny runs the pp..."

if torts was controlling the pp i think it would be better...but we will never know

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04-22-2012, 12:11 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Lay down the law

Send this line up over to Paul Mac
Rupp Bickel Prust
Scott ?
Neil and KONOPKA are winning this series not Karlsson and SPEZZA .
Deal with it
TORTS = most over rated coach in history .
In their prime
Bulin
ST Louis
Dan Boyle
Modin
Brad
With andreychuck etc won the cup I coulda coached that team

Torts sucks
I guess I could have coached all those Canadien, Penguin and Red Wings teams that Scotty Bowman won his 10 cups with as well.

I also guess that our pop gun offense, our overpaid "stars"not producing, no traffic in front of Anderson and no crease clearing defensemen have absolutely nothing at all to do with us being 1 game away from elimination either?

Perhaps we should rehire ****** Tom Renny since he'll be available soon after the Oilers fire him!

Deal with reality; put the blame where it squarely belongs dude.
We're just not that good and we overachieved the entire regular season!

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04-22-2012, 12:14 PM
  #598
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Sorry, but you lose immediate credibility when you say stuff like the above. You can't take away a title from the coach or the players because of the roster. If anything, as a Rangers fan, you should realize that an "all star hall of fame" roster guarantees NOTHING. Not even a playoff spot. Plenty of evidence around
here to prove that.
Aren't you the guy concerned about counterfeit jerseys ?
Yeah credibility you should watch WWF

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04-22-2012, 12:14 PM
  #599
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Leave it for Kenny Holland make sense

Quote:
“We'll explore the free-agent market, we'll move in two or three kids, we'll explore trades at the draft, like we always do. But at the end of the day, this (salary-cap) system is about methodically doing your work.
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index...._wings_17.html

You can't make wholesale changes. The Rangers have nearly $48M committed for next season. The NHL wants to lower the % given to the players. The Rangers have $40M committed(which doesn't include some of the young players signed to entry level deals with a $1M plus cap hits) for 13-14. 9 players signed. So many key young players will be entering free agency. Management will look to lower the cap or at the very least flatten it out at the current level for the foreseeable future. Some people here believe the cap will continue to increase at current levels. $39M. $44M. $50.3M. $56.7M. $56.8M. $59.4M. $64.3M. $71M cap number in June? The NHL will not have a $90M-$100M cap at the end of the next CBA.

The Rangers should stay the course. Wait until the CBA is settled. Its not like the NHL season will be starting in October. There is so much work to do with not enough time to get a new deal by September.

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04-22-2012, 12:15 PM
  #600
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We don't have the horses to have a good PP . We have a hard enough time scraping together one unit that operates at a little over 10 % success rate . Without a PP and no depth up front we are ripe to lose this series...and I can live with that in all honesty . It is a learning curve and quite possibly it has showed us that we need some upgrades or an infusion of sorts of some new blood . A couple of Foligno type players to replace AA and Dubi would be a start .


Winning in the playoffs...is how teams are measured and we have some guys that just do not measure up and they certainly are spread though out our top 12 guys up front . We need 5 new faces up front and it is pointless having 4 fighters on a team if the coach won't utilize them when they are needed and a message needs to be sent or responded to . Obviously our coach and GM are not on the same page .

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