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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XI

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04-25-2012, 03:15 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I hadn't read any of the 30 Thoughts for a while so I went back over some of the old ones. From the March 26 article...

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04-25-2012, 03:53 PM
  #227
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Another interesting "30 Thoughts" tidbit. From the April 11 version and his thoughts on the different award winners...

Quote:
SELKE TROPHY: David Backes. Runners up: Ryan Callahan, Mike Fisher, Patrice Bergeron, Claude Giroux. Also considered: Pavel Datsyuk, Brooks Laich, Joe Pavelski, Brandon Sutter.
I know I'm part of the "Brooks Laich is Overpaid" Fan Club, so maybe I'm a little biased, but I didn't see a top 10 defensive forward out there this year. I was very surprised at his advanced stats though. He was 18th in the league in Corsi Rel QoC at even strength. The one area he really struggled in this season was FO%. Only 47.6%. That definitely needs improvement.

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04-25-2012, 04:41 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Another interesting "30 Thoughts" tidbit. From the April 11 version and his thoughts on the different award winners...


I know I'm part of the "Brooks Laich is Overpaid" Fan Club, so maybe I'm a little biased, but I didn't see a top 10 defensive forward out there this year. I was very surprised at his advanced stats though. He was 18th in the league in Corsi Rel QoC at even strength. The one area he really struggled in this season was FO%. Only 47.6%. That definitely needs improvement.
Kesler not in the top 10? was his season that bad

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04-25-2012, 04:46 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Another interesting "30 Thoughts" tidbit. From the April 11 version and his thoughts on the different award winners...


I know I'm part of the "Brooks Laich is Overpaid" Fan Club, so maybe I'm a little biased, but I didn't see a top 10 defensive forward out there this year. I was very surprised at his advanced stats though. He was 18th in the league in Corsi Rel QoC at even strength. The one area he really struggled in this season was FO%. Only 47.6%. That definitely needs improvement.
I can't speak to stats or no fancy book learning, but Laich does not strike me as a good defensive player. He tries hard, but his hockey smarts aren't good. I think Perreault and Johansson are better defensive players.

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04-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #230
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I can't speak to stats or no fancy book learning, but Laich does not strike me as a good defensive player. He tries hard, but his hockey smarts aren't good. I think Perreault and Johansson are better defensive players.
Since when has the Selke meant anything about being a good defensive player?

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04-26-2012, 12:11 AM
  #231
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About HunterHockey, tough to dispute that this version of the Caps team looked more effective, more disciplined than any of BB's teams.

Although.. tbh, I don't think I can ever be a fan of this kind of hockey. It bores me to tears. I think there's a lot to be grateful to Hunter for showing, especially to the players themselves, that they CAN win big games from the defense. But I wouldn't want Hunter back.. just anything but a 1-4, I can't take a season of it, lol.

If, however, Caps do continue to play this way.. raises the question, what the hell do they need Ovi for? Trade him for a king's ransom, get a couple of tough skilled 4-5m players instead, keep Semin for the deadly wristers.. seems it would be more effective.

I'm not saying it's wrong to not play Ovi much -- if this works, it works -- but if he can't (learn to) be effective in this system, that's too much money on a guy that's gonna play 15 mins a night and has to be shielded. I know he draws away the best D (for now), but that just still seems way too much money for what Ovi brings/can bring in a system like this. At least based on the evidence so far.. maybe Hunter/Ovi will be able to adjust something.. or maybe Kuz can come over next year and alter the equations


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04-26-2012, 12:16 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
I can't speak to stats or no fancy book learning, but Laich does not strike me as a good defensive player. He tries hard, but his hockey smarts aren't good. I think Perreault and Johansson are better defensive players.
Well, I dunno about that, I don't really recall Laich with any bad turnovers/reads -- and there's not a lot of Caps that I could say the same about.. more like I don't think he's outstanding at anything, doesn't have the speed or the physicality to create or take away a lot of space. His versatility and consistency make him a pretty good 3rd liner, I guess.. just gets paid too much for that..

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04-26-2012, 12:21 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
About HunterHockey, tough to dispute that this version of the Caps team looked more effective, more disciplined than any of BB's teams.

Although.. tbh, I don't think I can ever be a fan of this kind of hockey. It bores me to tears. I think there's a lot to be grateful to Hunter for showing, especially to the players themselves, that they CAN win big games from the defense. But I wouldn't want Hunter back.. just anything but a 1-4, I can't take a season of it, lol.

If, however, Caps do continue to play this way.. raises the question, what the hell do they need Ovi for? Trade him for a king's ransom, get a couple of tough skilled 4-5m players instead, keep Semin for the deadly wristers.. seems it would be more effective.

I'm not saying it's wrong to not play Ovi much -- if this works, it works -- but if he can't (learn to) be effective in this system, that's too much money on a guy that's gonna play 15 mins a night and has to be shielded. I know he draws away the best D (for now), but that just still seems way too much money for what Ovi brings/can bring in a system like this.
He didn't just draw away the best D. He drew away the Norris-winning monster top pairing to play against such offensive stars as Laich and Brouwer. Every shift, every game. Tonight, that's 15 minutes Chara and Seidenberg couldn't play against any other Caps. That means that a former 100 point scorer is playing against 2nd pairing D. Ovechkin, Laich, and Brouwer also wore down Chara and Seidenberg with their hitting. Make no mistake; that was the checking line, not Hendricks, Beagle, and Chimera. And the only way to get your checking line out consistently against the opponent's top defensemen is either to have home ice advantage every game, or to have Ovechkin.

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04-26-2012, 12:29 AM
  #234
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I think Ovechkin's performance in this series is becoming the most underrated playoff series performance of all time

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04-26-2012, 12:32 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
He didn't just draw away the best D. He drew away the Norris-winning monster top pairing to play against such offensive stars as Laich and Brouwer. Every shift, every game. Tonight, that's 15 minutes Chara and Seidenberg couldn't play against any other Caps. That means that a former 100 point scorer is playing against 2nd pairing D. Ovechkin, Laich, and Brouwer also wore down Chara and Seidenberg with their hitting. Make no mistake; that was the checking line, not Hendricks, Beagle, and Chimera. And the only way to get your checking line out consistently against the opponent's top defensemen is either to have home ice advantage every game, or to have Ovechkin.
$9,500,000.00

Sorry, I understand what you're saying, but I cannot wrap my mind around a supposedly generational player (or whatever, close enough) used primarily as a decoy to wear down opposite team's best D, Norris or not, for 15 mins a game, or whatever it was.

It worked, fine. But if that's the case, it seems to me that 9.5m could be spent better differently. There just has to be a way..

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04-26-2012, 12:35 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
$9,500,000.00

Sorry, I understand what you're saying, but I cannot wrap my mind around a supposedly generational player (or whatever, close enough) used primarily as a decoy to wear down opposite team's best D, Norris or not, for 15 mins a game, or whatever it was.

It worked, fine. But if that's the case, it seems to me that 9.5m could be spent better differently. There just has to be a way..
He also led the team in points in the series while doing it.

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04-26-2012, 12:45 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
He also led the team in points in the series while doing it.
Well what I am saying is maybe the Caps could trade/sign say Ovi and Laich (15m) for a couple of 7m guys that would collectively have just as many points and would be better defensively.

Would you rather have Ovi-Laich-Brouwer, or I dunno, for the sake of argument Parise-Kesler-Brouwer (and probably money left over to upgrade the D..?). Especially if Caps are gonna play disciplined defensive hockey going forward?

I realize it's unlikely, but I think it's an interesting question.

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04-26-2012, 12:52 AM
  #238
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its typical. the laich hate group sees something like this 30 thoughts mention of laich for the selke and what follows is laich bashing and elliot bashing and selke bashing. after this past boston series where the game crew or the studio crew or both are praising brooks laich, the eye rolling around here must be heavy.

could it be that experts see laich's game as strong and it actually is?:

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04-26-2012, 06:09 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
its typical. the laich hate group sees something like this 30 thoughts mention of laich for the selke and what follows is laich bashing and elliot bashing and selke bashing. after this past boston series where the game crew or the studio crew or both are praising brooks laich, the eye rolling around here must be heavy.

could it be that experts see laich's game as strong and it actually is?:
I think a lot of people see that he's a solid player but are too ******** over his salary, which is about $2 milllion too high for what he offers.

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04-26-2012, 06:22 AM
  #240
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Great upset win played by Hunter style hockey, but does this hinder improvements for next year?

Schultz, Wideman/Green, Aucoin, Ward - STAY??

Vokoun, MP, Erksine, Halpern - OUT??

Just thoughts after the series win, which was a good thing, but could mean we might see some of these players back that should not be back.

Thoughts?

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04-26-2012, 06:34 AM
  #241
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significant outstanding recently, but Ward has, thus the love for Ward and the hating on Laich.

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04-26-2012, 07:17 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Dr John Carlson View Post
I think a lot of people see that he's a solid player but are too ******** over his salary, which is about $2 milllion too high for what he offers.
i dont see him as overpaid. he is not remotely overpaid by almost twice.

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04-26-2012, 07:19 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
its typical. the laich hate group sees something like this 30 thoughts mention of laich for the selke and what follows is laich bashing and elliot bashing and selke bashing. after this past boston series where the game crew or the studio crew or both are praising brooks laich, the eye rolling around here must be heavy.

could it be that experts see laich's game as strong and it actually is?:
I didn't say Laich is a bad player. I said I didn't see a top 10 defensive performance from him this season and I've always thought his new contract was overboard.

Where in the world did you see any Elliotte bashing? There's no need to make stuff up even though it fits your purposes. Let your arguments stand on their own merit.

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04-26-2012, 07:26 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by fsnoles98 View Post
Great upset win played by Hunter style hockey, but does this hinder improvements for next year?

Schultz, Wideman/Green, Aucoin, Ward - STAY??

Vokoun, MP, Erksine, Halpern - OUT??

Just thoughts after the series win, which was a good thing, but could mean we might see some of these players back that should not be back.

Thoughts?
yea, i was pretty sure there were some hoping they would lose because there might be deeper carnage in the roster and maybe even a coach and gm change. you pretty much say it straight out.

personally, nothing that happened yesterday effected the off season. vokoun was not coming back. neuvirth showed enough last season as the starter and holtby in the playoffs enough to confirm that vokoun was not coming back.

aucoin is aucoin and might be earning a job outside the organEYEzation with his playoff game, but not inside it.

if wideman and/or green or semin are in mcphee's plans for next season or not, nothing about the boston series changes that.

ward was never going anywhere unless he demanded a trade.

bottom line is this basic group of players have won first round series before. i dont think george mcphee or ted leonsis look at this current bunch the way you are. "a great upset" as if the caps had no right to even compete for that series. they consider this a cup contender that lost its way. their expectations go far beyond winning a first round series. if they get smoked in round two, the reaction wil be the same as it was last season. an increase in pressure to move the program beyond the second round of the playoffs.


Last edited by txpd: 04-26-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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04-26-2012, 09:14 AM
  #245
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Can't help but feel that 90% of Laich's selke acclaim is from his honest effort, tire changing, good canadian boy image.

There simply isn't enough in his game to back it up.

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04-26-2012, 11:02 AM
  #246
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The trade that really needs to happen:Carlin for Donaldson!


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04-26-2012, 11:41 AM
  #247
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I know he draws away the best D (for now), but that just still seems way too much money for what Ovi brings/can bring in a system like this.
He will continue to draw the best defense for the prolonged future. Remember Knuble's 1000th game against Nashville? Nashville didn't match Suter-Weber against Ovie, and Ovie burned them for a highlight goal.

Granted, Semin had an even better goal (against Weber) for added awesome.

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04-26-2012, 12:24 PM
  #248
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I'd like to see Hunter transform Ov into a more complete player, similar to what NJ did to Kovalchuk

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04-26-2012, 12:26 PM
  #249
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I just want Ovie scoring like he used to. Then I couldn't care less if he were more complete.

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04-26-2012, 12:34 PM
  #250
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He also led the team in points in the series while doing it.
And brutal hits against the Bs.

Ovechkin's hitting ..I don't understand why its not mentioned more.

The guy always lures the top pairing of the other team..the other team MUST gameplan for him no matter what...he puts a SERIOUS beatdown physically on the other team.

Ovechkin would have scored far more in the series had we been trailing more b/c thats when we open things up a bit and throw him out there every other shift. We just happened to be tied or winning most of the time.

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