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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XI

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Old
05-03-2012, 01:38 AM
  #376
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Originally Posted by fsnoles98 View Post
Any issues with trading Semin and Schultz for a Crosby shooter-Tooder??
Yeah! Who needs winning the first round?

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05-03-2012, 01:39 AM
  #377
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Can't believe some people wouldn't want Kelly

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05-03-2012, 10:33 AM
  #378
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Can't believe some are inquiring about 3rd line centers.

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05-03-2012, 10:35 AM
  #379
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Swapping out Laich for Kelly means getting a substantially better player for less money. Unless we're moving Laich out purely for cap space in pursuit of Suters and Parises not replacing him with Kelly makes the team worse.

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05-03-2012, 10:45 AM
  #380
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Kelly isn't "substantially" better than Laich and not replacing him with Kelly doesn't make this team worse. I'm not even a Laich fan, but that's plain dumb logic.

If they were to dump Laich's salary, we have in-house candidates for #3C, use his salary for a #2C.

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05-03-2012, 11:05 AM
  #381
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pierre mcguire is apparantly a serious enough general manager figure that earns regular final round interview and consideration for open positions. you'd think he must have a pretty good idea of what a good hockey player looks like.

he consistantly praises brooks laich and his game. yet around he its mostly the opposite.

i am cool with adding kelly, but i think mcphee thinks he has better than that already with 21

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Old
05-03-2012, 11:13 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
pierre mcguire is apparantly a serious enough general manager figure that earns regular final round interview and consideration for open positions. you'd think he must have a pretty good idea of what a good hockey player looks like.

he consistantly praises brooks laich and his game. yet around he its mostly the opposite.

i am cool with adding kelly, but i think mcphee thinks he has better than that already with 21
Pierre gets too fixated on man-crushes, and plays them up too much for the sake of narratives. Wouldn't take his praise as gospel, nor do I think his work as a GM would necessarily reflect the same ideals as his on-air persona.

That said, Laich doesn't deserve as much flak as he gets. I'd wager he'd get a lot less if he weren't so beloved by outside media members, actually. People feel the need to compensate for overzealous narratives by being harsh.

As for Kelly, I'd love to bring him in. Play Laich on the wing (2LW), Kelly at 3C, MoJo/Perreault/outside acquisition (depending on who's available and how you want to spend the money) at 2C. Prefer Laich as a winger especially if he's not going to dominate on faceoffs.

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05-03-2012, 11:19 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Kelly isn't "substantially" better than Laich and not replacing him with Kelly doesn't make this team worse. I'm not even a Laich fan, but that's plain dumb logic.

If they were to dump Laich's salary, we have in-house candidates for #3C, use his salary for a #2C.
As a 3C, Kelly is far better than Laich, to the point where a 3rd line with Kelly on it could be a series-winning strength. He is faster. He is stronger on the puck. And, most importantly, and he is far, far smarter, which is key as we can see with Alzner. He doesn't make those dumb decisions Laich makes game in and game out. There's a reason Neil-Kelly-Ruutu dominated the Penguins in the first round the year and he has been excellent for Boston in their cup run.

We signed Laich to be a versatile top 6 presence but he's clearly not cut out for it on this team. Kelly is a much better fit for the role Laich ended up taking. Would cost less too. No shame admitting it.

Only way I can see not going after Kelly is if we max out going after Suters and whatnot and keep Beagle on the 3rd line, which is fine though I'd prefer him on a very good 4th line instead.

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05-03-2012, 11:20 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
pierre mcguire is apparantly a serious enough general manager figure that earns regular final round interview and consideration for open positions. you'd think he must have a pretty good idea of what a good hockey player looks like.

he consistantly praises brooks laich and his game. yet around he its mostly the opposite.

i am cool with adding kelly, but i think mcphee thinks he has better than that already with 21
Would Laich happen to be a hard working canadian boy from a small city in a remote province?

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05-03-2012, 11:25 AM
  #385
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I'd wager he'd get a lot less if he weren't so beloved by outside media members, actually. People feel the need to compensate for overzealous narratives by being harsh.
Yup. A push-back is required to balance out the ridiculous praise he gets. Not just from the media, but from the majority of people here. When every other new poster's first post is some moronic **** about Laich being the rightful captain of the Capitals, a lot of negativity is necessary.

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05-03-2012, 11:37 AM
  #386
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As a 3C, Kelly is far better than Laich, to the point where a 3rd line with Kelly on it could be a series-winning strength. He is faster. He is stronger on the puck. And, most importantly, and he is far, far smarter, which is key as we can see with Alzner. He doesn't make those dumb decisions Laich makes game in and game out. There's a reason Neil-Kelly-Ruutu dominated the Penguins in the first round the year and he has been excellent for Boston in their cup run.

We signed Laich to be a versatile top 6 presence but he's clearly not cut out for it on this team. Kelly is a much better fit for the role Laich ended up taking. Would cost less too. No shame admitting it.

Only way I can see not going after Kelly is if we max out going after Suters and whatnot and keep Beagle on the 3rd line, which is fine though I'd prefer him on a very good 4th line instead.
My point is why are people concerned with a #3C when we have top 6 issues and top 4 D issues. #3C is a secondary issue, especially when we have guys who can fill in that role(Perreault, Eakin, Beagle, etc.). Again, if management wants to dump Laich I'm all for it, but his salary could be better used for a true top 6 player or a top 4 D.

Your over-glorification of Kelly is hilarious and GMGM won't go after Suter, I think people should get that in their heads. Its not a given he'll even make it to FA anyways.

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05-03-2012, 12:01 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
My point is why are people concerned with a #3C when we have top 6 issues and top 4 D issues. #3C is a secondary issue, especially when we have guys who can fill in that role(Perreault, Eakin, Beagle, etc.). Again, if management wants to dump Laich I'm all for it, but his salary could be better used for a true top 6 player or a top 4 D.

Your over-glorification of Kelly is hilarious and GMGM won't go after Suter, I think people should get that in their heads. Its not a given he'll even make it to FA anyways.
Because people are concerned with improving the team, and not settling for nothing less than the perfect fit.

I don't think Kelly's the best available fit at center for the Caps this summer (Jokinen is), but he's up there.

Kelly is a far better player than Perreault, Eakin, Beagle, etc.

Laich/Johansson-Kelly is a much better option for the 2C/3C than Laich/Johansson-Perreault/Eakin/Beagle.

Why are people so up in arms over a player that will improve the team?

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05-03-2012, 12:09 PM
  #388
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GM will NEVER move Laich. He thinks Brooksie walks on water. Suggesting 21 in trades is silly.

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05-03-2012, 12:28 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Because people are concerned with improving the team, and not settling for nothing less than the perfect fit.

I don't think Kelly's the best available fit at center for the Caps this summer (Jokinen is), but he's up there.

Kelly is a far better player than Perreault, Eakin, Beagle, etc.

Laich/Johansson-Kelly is a much better option for the 2C/3C than Laich/Johansson-Perreault/Eakin/Beagle.

Why are people so up in arms over a player that will improve the team?
Yes and those opposed to signing a #3C aren't for improving the team. I don't know that he'll be the perfect fit, management needs to determine the direction of the team. If they're going to proceed with Hunter Hockey, then Kelly should fit well. Then again how about a guy like Ovechkin who will be out of place? Does management need to tailor a system around the franchise player or hope he develops enough to be compatible with the system. Probably the latter, but it's not a given he'll ever be.

Not up in arms by any means, but there are many variables. I'd like to think the top 6 less Ovechkin and Backstrom can be overhauled before inquiring about a #3C. Likewise for a top 4 less Alzner and Carlson.

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05-03-2012, 02:28 PM
  #390
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My point is why are people concerned with a #3C when we have top 6 issues and top 4 D issues. #3C is a secondary issue, especially when we have guys who can fill in that role(Perreault, Eakin, Beagle, etc.). Again, if management wants to dump Laich I'm all for it, but his salary could be better used for a true top 6 player or a top 4 D.

Your over-glorification of Kelly is hilarious and GMGM won't go after Suter, I think people should get that in their heads. Its not a given he'll even make it to FA anyways.
You improve whatever you can. A killer 3rd line can do as much for us in the playoffs as a killer 2nd line. It was the case for the Ducks in 07 and the Bruins last year. Remember Bergenheim-Moore-Downie by any chance? Hell, our 3rd and 4th lines have been huge so far. Chimera-Kelly-Brouwer and Hendricks-Beagle-Ward? That kind of playoff moxie could be a very real asset especially if we're gonna continue with hunterhockey.

And I'm not saying anything about Kelly that isn't true. 29 points in 68 career playoff games as a stone hands shutdown center who has given everyone playing against him fits. He's a small step below Mike Fisher as a player. He would be a much better fit as a 3rd line center than Laich. I don't see how that's even debatable given the players at hand. He's much better on faceoffs. He's faster. He's as consistent at making intelligent defensive decisions as I anyone out there. Probably the best defensive 3rd liner out there who isn't a 2nd-line-center-on-another-team type.

And to improve at the top 6 and top 4... you need a player you could slot into there who would be an improvement. Who is available really beyond Suter, Parise and Stuart (who would most likely cost way more than he's worth and is pretty overrated)? Kostitsyn? I'd be all for trading for a long term solution like Plekanec, but Kelly is a fairly straightforward move that improves the team. We could probably get away with betting on Orlov becoming a legitimate top 4 defenseman by next year's playoffs and getting a solid vet like Salvador as far as defense goes. It's optimistic but at the same time you can tell Green has not recovered yet and Orlov has that very real potential.

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05-03-2012, 02:39 PM
  #391
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I'd look more at skill sets that are needed and go from there rather than fix on a particular player. If Hunter stays they need to address the forwards more than anything in adding players that are either very poised or strong on the puck.

Given the trust placed in Beagle this playoffs, I think they'd be more in the market for either a 2C or 4C and not a 3C. I don't think Kelly would shift Laich over to wing. Beagle isn't a true two-way 3C but particularly if Hunter stays he is the sort of grind-it-out player that fills a role.

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05-03-2012, 03:36 PM
  #392
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mcphee has been comfortable moving his regular season 4line parts into a toi position much higher in the playoffs. gordon and bradley in the past for instance.

if the caps had a kelly at 3c that could be slammed between ward and knuble rather than aucoin, i wonder if that line would not all but replace the 2nd or 1st line in many of these games.

that said, i think mcphee is looking for a top 6 winger. i think he will end up being content with a healthy nicky, a growing johansson, brooks laich and beagle as his primary 4.

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05-03-2012, 04:50 PM
  #393
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mcphee has been comfortable moving his regular season 4line parts into a toi position much higher in the playoffs. gordon and bradley in the past for instance.

if the caps had a kelly at 3c that could be slammed between ward and knuble rather than aucoin, i wonder if that line would not all but replace the 2nd or 1st line in many of these games.

that said, i think mcphee is looking for a top 6 winger. i think he will end up being content with a healthy nicky, a growing johansson, brooks laich and beagle as his primary 4.
Given how Ward and Knuble have been playing and that Kelly is far superior to Aucoin playing that style, honestly I would not have minded if they ate up more EST if they could just cycle it all day, tire out the opposition and score lucky goals. Have them cycle for 2 minutes, have the dead tired opposition ice the puck, then put SOB on for the ensuing faceoff. There's only so many timeouts a team can take.

McPhee will probably go for a winger this year, should be far easier to get Kostitsyn than a legitimate center. Hopefully Laich as a top 6 C ends.

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05-10-2012, 02:44 PM
  #394
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Using Holmgren's predicted $69M cap number, a roster using only players under the organization's control next season:

FORWARDS
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m)
Stanislav Galiev ($0.683m) / Mathieu Perreault ($1.500m) / Troy Brouwer ($2.350m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.825m) / Jay Beagle ($0.750m) / Cody Eakin ($0.638m)
Mattias Sjogren ($0.900m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Karl Alzner ($1.285m) / John Carlson ($3.500m)
Roman Hamrlik ($3.500m) / Mike Green ($5.000m)
Jeff Schultz ($2.750m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
John Erskine ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Braden Holtby ($0.638m)
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m)
BUYOUTS
Tyler Sloan ($0.233m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $54,490,683; BONUSES: $400,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $14,509,317

Plenty of cap space for major additions, especially if they go cheaper at the 6/7 D (Schultz/Erskine).

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05-10-2012, 02:46 PM
  #395
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Yikes... We definitely need Semin back. That lineup lacks so much offense.

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05-10-2012, 02:46 PM
  #396
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Half of that will end up going to Semin...then I'll be vomiting in the corner.

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05-10-2012, 03:05 PM
  #397
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That second line won't cut it. Good news is the cap space. I am ok with bringing Semin back. I think he has really improved under Hunter. Is he a $6.7M player? Probably not. But hey, it's the Caps.

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05-10-2012, 03:18 PM
  #398
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It's going to be really hard to find a disinterested winger capable of 50 points and an even lower pace in the postseason for under $7 million.

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05-10-2012, 03:21 PM
  #399
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I would better form it like

FORWARDS
Alex Semin (6.7m max) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m)
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Mathieu Perreault ($1.500m) / Troy Brouwer ($2.350m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.825m) / Jay Beagle ($0.750m) / Cody Eakin ($0.638m)
Mattias Sjogren ($0.900m) / Stanislav Galiev ($0.683m)


Then it's clear we need to upgrade centermen again =)

MP is a bit weak for the task. Laich is a bit overpayed for his capabilities. Both are not ideal. What we really need there is Plekanec or somebody of the same class.

Imagine

MJ-Backis-Semin
OV-good2C-Grinder1 (Brouwer/Ward)
Chimera-Beagle-Grinder2
Hendricks-?-Eakin (Sjogren? Halpern?)

I mean come on! Laich isn't getting it done. I feel more calm about other grinders with the puck on their blade in our zone. Somehow. Brooks show flashes of offensive game and got some significant points this post-season but he isn't on par with what we need as OV's centerforward. I think it's pretty clear now.

So is MP I guess. Johansson and Kuznetsov are question marks (while being theoretical center depth). What's left? Nothing in the system.

OK. We can also try to make it like that:

Laich/MJ-NB-Semin
OV-?-MJ/Laich
Chimera-Beagle-Brouwer
Hendricks-Eakin-Ward

and then we're keeping Laich. But we all know Laich's got some serious trade value with his long contract and reputation. He's perfect aim for somebody if we are trading for upgrade.

DEFENSEMEN
Karl Alzner ($1.285m) / John Carlson ($3.500m)
Roman Hamrlik ($3.500m) / Mike Green ($5.000m)
Jeff Schultz ($2.750m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
John Erskine ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Braden Holtby ($0.638m)
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m)

this part is ok as is I guess. until the deadline at least.

Still I can't stop myself from suggesting trades for Tyutin (Schultz's upgrade) and for Radulov (hahahaha!)

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05-10-2012, 03:21 PM
  #400
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It's going to be really hard to find a disinterested winger capable of 50 points and an even lower pace in the postseason for under $7 million.
I think Penner is available.

Though he doesn't fall under the 'lower pace in the postseason' criteria.

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