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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XI

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Old
04-23-2012, 01:10 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
there is a difference between alzner being put in the lineup for a game 7 where montreal was playing rope a dope and the puck was in their end 75% of the game and orlov going in when the caps are playing rope a dope and the puck is in their end all the time.
What's that, Orlov might be on for every goal against? Oh wait that's Wideman's job.

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04-23-2012, 01:16 PM
  #77
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Also Wisniewski is becoming underrated. He's physical as hell, has decent puckmoving abilities and one of the best point shots in the league. His defense is also not nearly as bad as people would have you believe. If put with a fast defensive guy like Tyutin or Alzner his defensive lapses are pretty much a non-issue. A 4.25 million defenseman on most teams which translates to about 5.5 mil in Columbus. I'd take him over Wideman in a second.

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04-23-2012, 01:17 PM
  #78
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Yeah but he was FORCED in due to an injury to Poti. This is a situation where there are better options.

Yes Wideman has sucked. But he's still a vet and has the poise/confidence to make up for it this game. It would not shock me at all for him to come up big and show us the "good" parts of his game that he has displayed before.

Orlov is greener than Alzner was that year in terms of NA exposure. Don't force feed your youth. Orlov isn't ready...just like he wasn't ready for his shootout attempt. He will be too excited in my mind.
His poise hasn't been to great. He has been on the ice for all of the Bruins goals until game 5 according to various tweets. The Caps defense has been to laid back in terms of offense while the Bruins defense is not afraid to make an offensive play which is why I would love to see Orlov in the lineup. It would throw off the Bruins game.

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04-23-2012, 01:33 PM
  #79
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D-Men TOI for Game 6



Wideman 24:20 total 6:03 PP
Alzner 19:01
Hamrlik 19:01
Carlson 17:48 :41 PP
Green 13:41 :48 PP
Erskine 8:03 :47 PP

John Erskine had 1 less second of Power Play time than Mike Green and 7 more seconds than John Carlson. That's crazy.

Understand the risk of putting Orlov in but, think his speed vs. that of Erskine can only help, not too mention we have not been getting any offense out of our d except for Green's goal yesterday whereas the Bruins D is contibuting big time. Just would like to see a different look. Heck sit Aucoin and go with 7 d-men.

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04-23-2012, 01:34 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
His poise hasn't been to great. He has been on the ice for all of the Bruins goals until game 5 according to various tweets. The Caps defense has been to laid back in terms of offense while the Bruins defense is not afraid to make an offensive play which is why I would love to see Orlov in the lineup. It would throw off the Bruins game.
the reason you will not see orlov in the lineup is specifically because hunter does not want the defensemen involved in the offense. its not that green, wideman and carlson can't. they are instructed not to.

the reason the bruins defense is encouraged to jump into the offense is because the capitals system does not threaten them if they come in deeper. all hunter cares about is if they shoot that its from outside.

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04-23-2012, 01:37 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
D-Men TOI for Game 6



Wideman 24:20 total 6:03 PP
Alzner 19:01
Hamrlik 19:01
Carlson 17:48 :41 PP
Green 13:41 :48 PP
Erskine 8:03 :47 PP

John Erskine had 1 less second of Power Play time than Mike Green and 7 more seconds than John Carlson. That's crazy.
those numbers are not correct. not entirely anyway. add the sh time in

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04-23-2012, 01:41 PM
  #82
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I'm amazed Wideman has defenders. At least when he was scoring you could justify his roster spot, but right now he does nothing other than allow goals. Playing Orlov over him isn't all that difficult a decision imo.

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04-23-2012, 01:43 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
those numbers are not correct. not entirely anyway. add the sh time in
Oh I know they don't have the SH time in there. My concern is addressing the excessive use of Wideman on the PP in particular. At the very least 50/50 his PP minutes with Green and that would bring his numbers down to a total TOI in the 21 minute range (still too much imho) and bring Green's up to 16 minutes. But the Erskine PP numbers are just incomprehensible.

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04-23-2012, 01:43 PM
  #84
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One's a UFA, one's not. Also, it could be argued that Suter's the better fit and the better all-around defenseman.
Ahh...

With Weber's RFA status, can't we throw an offer-sheet his way? I know it's kind of looked down upon in the NHL, but Nashville has been playing games w. this guy for years. He'll probably get another 1 year tender from Nashville anyways. Oh well.

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04-23-2012, 01:52 PM
  #85
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Ahh...

With Weber's RFA status, can't we throw an offer-sheet his way? I know it's kind of looked down upon in the NHL, but Nashville has been playing games w. this guy for years. He'll probably get another 1 year tender from Nashville anyways. Oh well.
Weber is making $7.5M this year and I can't imagine he's going to get a pay cut. In order for the offer to be big enough to keep Nashville from matching, they are probably up in the 4 1st rounder compensation range. Suter will cost less from a salary standpoint and the Caps can keep the draft picks.

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04-23-2012, 02:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the reason you will not see orlov in the lineup is specifically because hunter does not want the defensemen involved in the offense. its not that green, wideman and carlson can't. they are instructed not to.

the reason the bruins defense is encouraged to jump into the offense is because the capitals system does not threaten them if they come in deeper. all hunter cares about is if they shoot that its from outside.
Carlson has been the only one imo who has added offense from the backend. He created a scoring chance on Thomas, crashed the net and got pushed into Thomas, and was called for a crap penalty. The Caps do need to care about the Bruins D getting involved because The B's are changing their game to outmatch the Caps. The Bruins defenders are shooting the puck wide to create rebound opportunities for the forwards crashing the net, which is one thing they emphasized they needed to do to score on Holtby and it has worked. Now its Hunters turn to step up and develop a new plan that would catch the Bruins off guard: let Green play the way he gets paid the big bucks to play by creating more offense. Green's offensive production is down because Hunter doesn't know how to utilize him. Green's defensive game has increased a lot and in my opinion Green has been our best Dman, and the Green-Hamrlik pair has been our best D-pairing

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04-23-2012, 02:46 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Oh I know they don't have the SH time in there. My concern is addressing the excessive use of Wideman on the PP in particular. At the very least 50/50 his PP minutes with Green and that would bring his numbers down to a total TOI in the 21 minute range (still too much imho) and bring Green's up to 16 minutes. But the Erskine PP numbers are just incomprehensible.
really? to me seeing 6 on the ice to start every pk was as great a concern as seeing green on the bench during power plays

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04-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Carlson has been the only one imo who has added offense from the backend. He created a scoring chance on Thomas, crashed the net and got pushed into Thomas, and was called for a crap penalty. The Caps do need to care about the Bruins D getting involved because The B's are changing their game to outmatch the Caps. The Bruins defenders are shooting the puck wide to create rebound opportunities for the forwards crashing the net, which is one thing they emphasized they needed to do to score on Holtby and it has worked. Now its Hunters turn to step up and develop a new plan that would catch the Bruins off guard: let Green play the way he gets paid the big bucks to play by creating more offense. Green's offensive production is down because Hunter doesn't know how to utilize him. Green's defensive game has increased a lot and in my opinion Green has been our best Dman, and the Green-Hamrlik pair has been our best D-pairing
i'd bet you that carlson got an earful for charging the net that time and taking a penalty only made it worse.

think about how infrequently you have seen caps defensemen either in the middle of the ice or playing below the circles. carlson has not created any more offense than green or wideman or hamrlik or alzner. its all been minimul

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04-23-2012, 03:39 PM
  #89
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I think if you take out/replace the weak links of Wideman and Schultz, the defense is fine. Not perfect -- nothing ever is, but good enough to compete.

I don't have a lot hopes for Suter, simply because there's 30 teams interested in him, and McPhee has never seriously pursued a big time d-man in the past. If he somehow lands him, ok, that'll be a whole other ballgame, but it looks too unlikely for me to really consider.

Green is up for debate if it were up to me. He's played decent in this series, but is 5.25m+ a good price for a good transition guy that is fragile, does not excel in his own end, and brings (at this point) no offense? Especially if the return could be significant? I would have to say no... but I have a feeling that the Caps will bring him back, as well..

So Alzner-Carlson, Hamrlik-Green, Orlov-?, Erskine.

I'm guessing they'd go for another Hamrlik-type vet player. Those guys are always available in the offseason. And you know, I'd be fine with that. Alzner-Carlson look all grown up, I'm not sure you need a star vet to lead the way anymore. Wouldn't hurt, but not necessary. As long as the money is wisely spent elsewhere, I think the Caps can win with this defense.

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04-23-2012, 03:47 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
I think if you take out/replace the weak links of Wideman and Schultz, the defense is fine. Not perfect -- nothing ever is, but good enough to compete.

I don't have a lot hopes for Suter, simply because there's 30 teams interested in him, and McPhee has never seriously pursued a big time d-man in the past. If he somehow lands him, ok, that'll be a whole other ballgame, but it looks too unlikely for me to really consider.

Green is up for debate if it were up to me. He's played decent in this series, but is 5.25m+ a good price for a good transition guy that is fragile, does not excel in his own end, and brings (at this point) no offense? Especially if the return could be significant? I would have to say no... but I have a feeling that the Caps will bring him back, as well..

So Alzner-Carlson, Hamrlik-Green, Orlov-?, Erskine.

I'm guessing they'd go for another Hamrlik-type vet player. Those guys are always available in the offseason. And you know, I'd be fine with that. Alzner-Carlson look all grown up, I'm not sure you need a star vet to lead the way anymore. Wouldn't hurt, but not necessary. As long as the money is wisely spent elsewhere, I think the Caps can win with this defense.
Salo, Rosival, Spacek, Gill (shudder), Martinek, and Aucoin would all fit that profile.

I'd be fine with a 1-year deal for any of them (sans Gill), I suppose, if they miss out on Suter.

My preference would be to explore trade options first, and then try to sign one of (in order of preference) Jackman, Stuart, Garrison, Zanon, Allen, or Carle.


Last edited by NobodyBeatsTheWiz: 04-23-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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04-23-2012, 04:17 PM
  #91
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Salo, Rosival, Spacek, Gill (shudder), Martinek, and Aucoin would all fit that profile.

I'd be fine with a 1-year deal for any of them (sans Gill), I suppose, if they miss out on Suter.

My preference would be to explore trade options first, an they try to sign one of (in order of preference) Jackman, Stuart, Garrison, Zanon, Allen, or Carle.
Yeah you end up rolling the dice a bit with vets that are on the backslope of their careers. The only positive impression that I have of that first group of guys was Martinek, I remember him playing well against the Caps.. but just looked at his Corsi stuff.. not impressive. The second group is more legit -- ply them with Schultz

Another thing that's interesting.. With high-expectation teams like Sharks and Canucks getting bounced early again, you see at least the fanbase turn on (usually) excellent 2Cs like Pavelski and Kesler. Of course it doesn't mean at all that the GMs feel that way, but it could be an indication that some big pieces could be pried loose. Doubt that the Caps would make a strong play, but potentially they certainly have some pieces -- 1sts, MJ, Laich, Green..

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04-23-2012, 04:46 PM
  #92
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i think you need to reevaluate green. there is no offensive game for caps defensemen to play right now. you can only evuate his game right now based on his own zone and his pk work. i'd say that he has exceled in his own zone in these playoffs.

that said, if the caps plan to play this kind of hockey from here out, i see no reason to pay any defenseman $5m plus. the skill that earns green his money is not in the game plan. its wasted money.

i would trade him if this is the style they remain. i'd let wideman go too. i wouldnt bother spending the money on suter.

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04-23-2012, 05:58 PM
  #93
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Thoughts on cashing in on SJS's speculated firesale? I would consider this offseason a win if we can get Pavelski in so we can finally have a legitimate 2C.

As far as defense is concerned, I have a feeling that we'll be seeing Spacek in DC next year.

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04-23-2012, 06:08 PM
  #94
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why would sj trade pavelski?

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04-23-2012, 06:08 PM
  #95
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I don't buy for a second that we'll see a San Jose (or Vancouver) fire sale. Just fan-generated talk.

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04-23-2012, 06:26 PM
  #96
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I'd be shocked if Wideman gets anything north of 4. This series is exposing all of his warts.
Yeah a subpar playoff series really killed Wisniewski's value last offseason...

--EDIT--

Apparently I am piling on with this argument.

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04-23-2012, 06:30 PM
  #97
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that said, if the caps plan to play this kind of hockey from here out, i see no reason to pay any defenseman $5m plus. the skill that earns green his money is not in the game plan. its wasted money.
You could say the same about Ovechkin's lack of two-way game. Their whole organizational approach is rather sad and wasteful.

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04-23-2012, 06:32 PM
  #98
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You could say the same about Ovechkin's lack of two-way game. Their whole organizational approach is rather sad and wasteful.
This. If Hunter hockey is management's intention moving forward, OV is misplaced.

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04-23-2012, 07:18 PM
  #99
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well if our season ends on Wed night and we have to start thinking about next year.

Out:
Shultz - trade or minors . hopefull but he will be hard to move w the bad contract
Ward - same as above
Wideman- UFA
Knuble - UFA
Halpren - like him but no place for him it seems
Vokoun - no room for hurt old goalie

Maybe:
Green - RFA but i seem him back
Semin - UFA he could leave for more money but i think he stays
MP- gonna get a handsome raise, is he worth the money
Hamrlik - 1 year left on his contract. Prolly back
Kunzsetov - I think comes to NHL this year
Eakin - should be ready for a full NHL season
Rookie - with 2 1st rounders maybe a Rookie makes the team

Locks:
Ovechkin
Backstrom
Brooks
Mojo
Brouwer
Chimera
Beagle
Carlson
Alzner
Orlov
Nuevy
Holtby

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04-23-2012, 07:51 PM
  #100
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well if our season ends on Wed night and we have to start thinking about next year.

Out:
Shultz - trade or minors . hopefull but he will be hard to move w the bad contract
Ward - same as above
Wideman- UFA
Knuble - UFA
Halpren - like him but no place for him it seems
Vokoun - no room for hurt old goalie

Maybe:
Green - RFA but i seem him back
Semin - UFA he could leave for more money but i think he stays
MP- gonna get a handsome raise, is he worth the money
Hamrlik - 1 year left on his contract. Prolly back
Kunzsetov - I think comes to NHL this year
Eakin - should be ready for a full NHL season
Rookie - with 2 1st rounders maybe a Rookie makes the team

Locks:
Ovechkin
Backstrom
Brooks
Mojo
Brouwer
Chimera
Beagle
Carlson
Alzner
Orlov
Nuevy
Holtby
Tend to agree for the most part. I think you will see one of Green/Wideman back. MP should not be paid anymore then a 3-4th line center in the NHL. Great year, but not sold on one year wonders. I hate to say, but I think Ward is a lock with his contract. I don't want to see Schultz, Halpy, Knubs,next year. There has to be better out there. Also, yes Holtby has been Great, but a little uneasy of going into a season with Neuvy and him as the only 2.

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