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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XI

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04-25-2012, 08:01 AM
  #201
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really? conference finals losing is still losing. caps have been to a conference finals and a stanley cup finals. they are still choking dogs without a cup.

this is why there is talk of blowing that team up and firing the coach. they failed. they have been one of the two or three best teams in the league for a pile of seasons and they have never gotten past the conf finals.

yea, its better than boudreau, but thats it. if boudreau had beaten the pens and lost in the conference finals, the caps would still be chokers.
I don't know what you mean by "recent long term" in your previous post, but the Sharks have won 4 playoff series the past 2 years. The Caps have 1 after having even better regular season records.

You make it sounds like each #1 seed that doesn't make the SCF is a choking dog. If you don't think that having won the series against Montreal after having a 3-1 series lead or beating the Pens after a 2-0 series lead or not getting swept by the Bolts wouldn't have lessened the chokers rep, I don't know what to tell you.

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04-25-2012, 08:07 AM
  #202
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I don't know what you mean by "recent long term" in your previous post, but the Sharks have won 4 playoff series the past 2 years. The Caps have 1 after having even better regular season records.

You make it sounds like each #1 seed that doesn't make the SCF is a choking dog. If you don't think that having won the series against Montreal after having a 3-1 series lead or beating the Pens after a 2-0 series lead or not getting swept by the Bolts wouldn't have lessened the chokers rep, I don't know what to tell you.
if you think the sharks are a successful organEYEzation, thats up to you. they have been the best team in the league or best in the west. in recent years. how long has it been now that san jose has been an elite team? their rep is playoff fail. they made it to the conf finals and failed and have now fallen back.

the caps historical playoff rep is hideous. making the finals didnt change that. the sharks making two wcf's in a row and losing didnt change their rep either.

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04-25-2012, 08:22 AM
  #203
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if you think the sharks are a successful organEYEzation, thats up to you. they have been the best team in the league or best in the west. in recent years. how long has it been now that san jose has been an elite team? their rep is playoff fail. they made it to the conf finals and failed and have now fallen back.

the caps historical playoff rep is hideous. making the finals didnt change that. the sharks making two wcf's in a row and losing didnt change their rep either.
Another wonderful leap of 'logic'. I said the Caps would gladly trade their playoff success for the past several seasons for those of the Sharks and that it would help ease the choker rep for the Ovechkin-era Caps.

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04-25-2012, 09:00 AM
  #204
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ive said this before on different levels, but isnt bringing in a significant contributor to the recent long term in san jose just perpetuating the playoff fail that is the capitals?
Yes it is. Not a good idea to trade for anyone on the Sharks.

Fact is that we need more of the "win" mentality and players who have tasted it...not players with a poor reputation of losing when the chips are on the line. We got too many of those already.

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04-25-2012, 09:09 AM
  #205
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Trading one set of #fail for another?

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04-25-2012, 10:35 AM
  #206
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yea, but....sj hasnt failed. theyve been to the wcf twice

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04-25-2012, 10:53 AM
  #207
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Yes it is. Not a good idea to trade for anyone on the Sharks.

Fact is that we need more of the "win" mentality and players who have tasted it...not players with a poor reputation of losing when the chips are on the line. We got too many of those already.
Don't agree. I'm one that thinks guys that haven't won are hungrier.

Keep in mind Ray Bourque never won a Cup in Boston. Would that have kept you from trading for him if given the opportunity?

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04-25-2012, 11:00 AM
  #208
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Don't agree. I'm one that thinks guys that haven't won are hungrier.

Keep in mind Ray Bourque never won a Cup in Boston. Would that have kept you from trading for him if given the opportunity?
iirc colorado had recently won a cup with the same core of players as the bourque cup team. they didnt have a shortage of winners on that team.

completely different set of circumstances.


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04-25-2012, 11:06 AM
  #209
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was bourque cup the first colorado cup or had not that team and most of those player already won one?
First year in Colorado and first Cup. Then they Sharked it up in 3 of the next 4 years in the WCF.

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04-25-2012, 11:12 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
First year in Colorado and first Cup. Then they Sharked it up in 3 of the next 4 years in the WCF.
you do realize there's a difference between a team that wins a cup than loses in the conference finals 3 straight years and then wins another cup and a team that losses to a lower seed in the 1st or 2nd round for 6 straight years then loses in the wcf twice and then loses in the first round? right?

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04-25-2012, 11:13 AM
  #211
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yea, but....sj hasnt failed. theyve been to the wcf twice
How many teams have had multiple conference finals appearances since the lockout? Pens, Wings, Flyers, Canes, Ducks, and Sharks.

Again, I've never said they haven't had their fair share of chokes, but they've made it a lot further than the Caps have recently. You sure can be obtuse when you need to be to justify your opinions.

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04-25-2012, 11:36 AM
  #212
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How many teams have had multiple conference finals appearances since the lockout? Pens, Wings, Flyers, Canes, Ducks, and Sharks.

Again, I've never said they haven't had their fair share of chokes, but they've made it a lot further than the Caps have recently. You sure can be obtuse when you need to be to justify your opinions.
the pens wings canes and ducks all won cups. the flyers generally perform in the playoffs up to their seeding but ultimately fail. the sharks have consistantly underperformed their seeding.

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04-25-2012, 11:38 AM
  #213
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Apparently we live in a world where Marleau and Pavelski aren't worth acquiring because they don't have rings, but Mike Green is a crucial part of the caps past, present and future playoff "success".


Last edited by BrooklynCapsFan: 04-25-2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old
04-25-2012, 11:54 AM
  #214
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Bourque never won a cup..thats true..but w the Bs they never had a history of choking. They would have won a couple cups if it weren't for the Oilers in their heyday. No one was beating that team.

Guys like Marleau and Thornton are a different animal. They haven't been as bad as people make them in the playoffs but they do come from a team with a history full of choke.

We don't have enough players (Colorado vs Bourque example) that have won to integrate them.

Some teams (like Detroit) can take in retreads/rejects/problems/mental cases/choke mentality and assimilate them into their winning culture. We have no culture of winning so if we absorb a player like that it will only bring us down further.

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04-25-2012, 12:00 PM
  #215
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Carlson was one of the players the Canucks targeted for Hodgson.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

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04-25-2012, 12:01 PM
  #216
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No thanks.

But I would've been a lot closer to a yes at the time than I am now.

But still, no.

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04-25-2012, 12:01 PM
  #217
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is there a cup winning lead minutes defenseman available that the caps could get to replace mike green? i'd be for it.

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04-25-2012, 12:03 PM
  #218
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is there a cup winning lead minutes defenseman available that the caps could get to replace mike green? i'd be for it.
Pavel Kubina?

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04-25-2012, 12:07 PM
  #219
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i wonder how many that wanted mcphee to make the hodgson deal would have parted with carlson? not me

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04-25-2012, 12:15 PM
  #220
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Carlson was one of the players the Canucks targeted for Hodgson.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html
I don't watch a lot of west coast hockey, but is Kyle Clifford held in the same regard as players like Kassian, Carlson, and Gudbranson?

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04-25-2012, 12:21 PM
  #221
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Seriously, why would Marleau want to go anywhere? After 15 successful years with a top 5 franchise, Marleau immediately becomes the historic face of the franchise as soon as he retires..Other than GM and head coach, he can pretty much pick any level of involvement/position that he wants with the Org - till death do them part.

He likely becomes their first retired jersey (other than 99).

I used to live in SJ, and given Marleau money, could not conceive why he would ever want to leave such a wonderful area..even if he has to deeply discount his final contract to make it a soft landing.

Pavelski is a different story - well worth an overpayment, and just what we need, IMO.

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04-25-2012, 12:22 PM
  #222
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I don't watch a lot of west coast hockey, but is Kyle Clifford held in the same regard as players like Kassian, Carlson, and Gudbranson?
That struck me as weird, as well.

He's a decent guy to target if you want more size and physicality in your bottom 6. But at the cost of Hodgson? That's nuts. He's like the West Coast version of Matt Martin.

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04-25-2012, 12:25 PM
  #223
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Ya, Clifford stuck out to me as well.

Carlson had a tough year but I think other than a few bozos on this board, nobody gave up on him. He has looked excellent through 6 games of the playoffs and I fully expect him to have a bounce back regular season next year. He's a keeper and should be part of any "core."

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04-25-2012, 01:18 PM
  #224
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Kings fans ****ing love Clifford. Not saying that he's worth Hodgson, but he's probably worth more than most of us give him credit for.

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04-25-2012, 03:13 PM
  #225
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I hadn't read any of the 30 Thoughts for a while so I went back over some of the old ones. From the March 26 article...

Quote:
On a Pittsburgh team stacked with stars, a couple opponents say the real key is Marc-Andre Fleury. The Penguins do give up chances, and Fleury prevents disaster. "Oh, he's really good," said one scout. "No rebounds. He's in total control and gives up nothing." You saw what happened in Ottawa Saturday night when he sat. Brad Thiessen is improving and talented, but not at Fleury's level.

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