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Old
04-22-2012, 05:29 PM
  #1
SoupNazi
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Howard

I'm curious as to what everyone thinks his value is, contract-wise, since he'll be free agent after next season?

Anyone else think Holland might try to bring a veteran in to challenge Jimmy to (a) be better, and (b) perhaps as a plan B if Howard asks for too much money?

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04-22-2012, 05:30 PM
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I think Jimmy knows he is solid, but also knows his role and that he may not be a starter on a lot of other teams.

I am hoping Kenny can extend him for ~4 years at $3.5-3.75 range

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04-22-2012, 05:34 PM
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We saw how good he was prior to getting hurt the first time this year. He never seemed to get back to that top form. I still think he's under-appreciated here. Rinne is a top 3-5 goalie in the game and he played at damn near all-world level. Howard can play at an elite level...I just don't think we saw it post injury. I'd like to see him fresh next year and if he can regain his top form before we get the wandering eye for another guy.

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04-22-2012, 05:39 PM
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icKx
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Hard to know which is the real Howard to be honest. Last year his regular season was 'meh,' though he played his ass off in April and May. But both times he's had a great regular season he was somewhat of a disappointment in the playoffs.

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04-22-2012, 05:48 PM
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Harding would be better than Howard if he signed here.

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04-22-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icKx View Post
Hard to know which is the real Howard to be honest. Last year his regular season was 'meh,' though he played his ass off in April and May. But both times he's had a great regular season he was somewhat of a disappointment in the playoffs.
It's the wearing thing. When he is having a great year, that means we are ginving too much shots to him and the team in front is not playing great. He will get exhausted and/or injured.

Getting a decent back-up that can share the load is the key. Keeping Howard fresh throughout the season, he will turn to diamond the the playoffs.

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04-22-2012, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
It's the wearing thing. When he is having a great year, that means we are ginving too much shots to him and the team in front is not playing great. He will get exhausted and/or injured.

Getting a decent back-up that can share the load is the key. Keeping Howard fresh throughout the season, he will turn to diamond the the playoffs.
That's what I'm thinking. Jimmy isn't the type of goalie like Rinne that can play 70 games. He's proven that he's best playing about 50 games or so.

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04-22-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icKx View Post
Hard to know which is the real Howard to be honest. Last year his regular season was 'meh,' though he played his ass off in April and May. But both times he's had a great regular season he was somewhat of a disappointment in the playoffs.
How was he a disappointment in the playoffs this season? He played more than well enough to give the Wings a chance to win each game. He can't score goals.

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04-22-2012, 06:14 PM
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5m is the max I'd pay any goalie.

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04-22-2012, 07:00 PM
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Why does Howard "need" to be better?

6th in GAA, 10th in SV%, 5th in wins

And those are with him missing time, coming back, missing more time, etc. He was top 5 for the majority of the season before those injuries came up. I'm not a fan of signing goalies for more than 3-4 years, so give him that with about 3.25 per; probably more. Sounds fair to me, especially if we get a decent backup to compliment him.

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04-22-2012, 07:29 PM
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Niemi's deal is probably the benchmark for Howard's next deal at this point. Niemi won a Cup but wasn't particularly good doing it and has had a terrible playoff and an ok playoff since then, with some pretty good regular seasons. Howard has had a mediocre regular season and two really good ones, and has had a couple ok playoffs and a really good playoff, but hasn't made a conference final.

Factor in inflation and you're probably looking at around $4 mil a year for Howard. I don't know if that's what either side is thinking but Niemi is a decent comparable right now. He certainly can't claim to be more accomplished than Thomas, Miller, Ward, Kiprusoff, or any of the other $5 mil+ goalies. Yet he's certainly more accomplished than Crawford ($2.7m), Lehtonen ($3.55m), Anderson ($3.2m), and Price ($2.75m).

The other guy besides Niemi that Howard might point to as a comparable is Hiller at $4.5 mil, as he's only got 13 games of playoff experience and his regular season record isn't any better than Howard's. So I'll say if they do an extension this summer it ends up somewhere in the 4 year, $4-4.5 mil/yr range. If they wait until either midseason or after next season, all bets are off. You never know what might happen in that time to affect his value either positively or negatively.

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04-22-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
I think Jimmy knows he is solid, but also knows his role and that he may not be a starter on a lot of other teams.

I am hoping Kenny can extend him for ~4 years at $3.5-3.75 range
Statistically, he'd be a starter on most teams. He had excellent rankings around the league in terms of GAA, SV, Wins, even with his injury.

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04-22-2012, 07:35 PM
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Statistically, he'd be a starter on most teams. He had excellent rankings around the league in terms of GAA, SV, Wins, even with his injury.
I agree, but think some of his success in the league so far throughout his career can be attributed to that fact that he is a Wing. Just off the top of my head, he wouldve never gotten a shot in Vancouver, Boston, Minnesota, LA, Nashville, Calgary, Washington, Carolina, Buffalo, Rangers, New Jersey, and I'm sure I missed a few. I love Jimmy, huge fan, I just don't think that other teams would've given him a legitimate shot at being a starter, and I'm hoping his next contract reflects his loyalty/thanks to the Wings. Basically wishful thinking.

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04-22-2012, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
That's what I'm thinking. Jimmy isn't the type of goalie like Rinne that can play 70 games. He's proven that he's best playing about 50 games or so.
He played 63 games in 09-10 and was fantastic. He played 63 games last year and was average. He played 57 games this year and was fantastic again up until the point where he had the injuries.

The common factors in his two great seasons? He played almost every single game when he was rolling. Check it out:

2009-10: After taking the reins on October 24th, he didn't go more than 4 days without playing. He was great that year.

2010-11: He starts out in a rotation with Osgood while he was dealing with a sore back. Then he starts 14 in a row and wins 11. Then for some reason, Babcock decides to give Osgood 5 of the next 15 starts and Howard gets out of whack. Babcock then comes to his senses, never plays Osgood again, and Howard finishes the season on a 17-10-2 run.

2011-12: Babcock decides he's going to keep Howard "fresh" and play Conklin a lot early in the season. Howard gets 5 starts in the first 21 days of the season, and struggles. Babcock finally recognizes Conklin is a train wreck and Howard starts 40 of the next 45 games from October 28th through February 4th. He goes 28-11-1 / .923 / 2.01 with 4 shutouts in that stretch. Then he breaks his finger and misses some games. When he comes back, he has a groin issue. He's in and out of the lineup and the finish is not great, though the wheels have come off the whole team by then so it's not all his fault.

Based on his NHL history to date, Howard is much better when he's playing every night and only gets a game off every 3 or 4 weeks. If they're smart, they'll start him 70 times next year and see how he does. My hunch is if he's healthy all year and plays 70 games, the Wings will be in good shape standings-wise and his numbers will be really good.

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04-22-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
How was he a disappointment in the playoffs this season?
Well I dunno, the Erat play was facepalm-inducing.

Quote:
He played more than well enough to give the Wings a chance to win each game. He can't score goals.
This team was prone to brain-farts and breakaways all season and Howard handled them extraordinarily; that was the whole reason I started the 'Howard for Vezina' thread on the main board.

I'm a huge fan but he had a lackluster series. Howie was very ordinary, and for most of the year he had the look of a top-3 goaltender. Not solely blaming him for the early exit but that's "somewhat disappointing".

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04-22-2012, 10:11 PM
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Wonder if Kenny will try and make a move to get Miller... not sure what I would think about that.

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04-22-2012, 11:02 PM
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Wonder if Kenny will try and make a move to get Miller... not sure what I would think about that.
If they're going to move the kind of assets it would take to get Miller, they're way better off trying to get a scoring forward instead. Howard is cheap for another year and he's not the problem.

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04-22-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
I agree, but think some of his success in the league so far throughout his career can be attributed to that fact that he is a Wing.
Were you watching in the first 30% of the season when he almost single-handedly kept Wings alive in the standings?

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04-22-2012, 11:41 PM
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Were you watching in the first 30% of the season when he almost single-handedly kept Wings alive in the standings?
This!

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04-23-2012, 12:26 AM
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Were you watching in the first 30% of the season when he almost single-handedly kept Wings alive in the standings?
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Originally Posted by datsykiandeke View Post
This!
Yep, and I loved it! He has the ability (as he showed this year, statistically) that he can be one of the leagues best. I just hope he remembers who recognized his abilities and gave him a chance to be the #1, because there are a lot of other teams who probably didn't think too highly of him, and passed him over or didn't give him a second look. He wasn't supposed to be this good, he has surpassed all expectations. I just am hoping he/Kenny stays in line with the affordable goaltending logic.

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04-23-2012, 12:43 AM
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I think all but two goals were just brutal defensive giveaways where Howard had almost no time to react to the shot.

He wasnt great, but he wasnt bad. For 2.5 million dollars, i dont feel like we got less than what we bought.

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04-23-2012, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
I think Jimmy knows he is solid, but also knows his role and that he may not be a starter on a lot of other teams.
LMAO man, internet fans are free comedy. The guy is one of the most talented goalies in the league. Our breakdowns and lazy play weren't his fault.

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04-23-2012, 02:54 AM
  #23
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I'm a pretty big fan of tandems. Riding the hot hand, so to speak.

So I'd like the Wings to bring in somebody that can actually push Howard and steal some games. Maybe Vokoun will reconsider this year? Looks like he's been replaced by the new kid!

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04-23-2012, 03:21 AM
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I'm very confident in Howard. The TEAMS are doing well in the post-season. Wings haven't had good enough skaters the last couple of years.

Vancouver had good goaltending in the series with LA and still lost in 5. Lundqvist has been really good yet the Rangers are on the verge of elimination. Thomas and the Bruins are in game 7. Miller was so bad early in the season that his team didn't even make the playoffs(he was only one of the reasons though).

The name of the goaltender isn't important come playoff time, he just has to be good enough as long as the team does its part. Some of the teams that are doing well have Anderson, Theodore, Elliott and Smith in goal. I feel like Howard is a goaltender that rarely lets his team down and I didn't think he did in these playoffs either.

However, I'm not saying they should sign Howard for life and be done with it. A contract in the range of Niemi's and Hiller's perhaps, but closer to $4M than $5M. Servicable amount of years, 4 maybe. But they should bring in a servicable backup, one that is hungry for more and not just happy to get a paycheck and play every once in a while. I believe that a backup that pushes the starter to earn his games is what you ultimately want.

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04-23-2012, 04:30 AM
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We're seeing more proof that you don't need a superstar goalie anymore. Thomas I think in time will be the exception, but look at Fleury and Niemi. The game is changing. Fleury is overrated and always has been. Good but overrated, and Niemi is a total joke. He's an AHLer on most nights. You need to have an overall team effort nowadays. Some of the games best goalies are being knocked out or are about to be, and total team-made goalies are still around.

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