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Old
05-08-2012, 07:35 PM
  #76
keppel146
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Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
Eh....I'm not so sure. If you look at the team the Devils have...it's comprised of a LOT of old guys...

If they don't win the cup, staying there because they were close wouldn't be very logical.
yeah especially if he wants to do a somewhat long term deal, they really dont have that much young talent. i think the wild are a much better option

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05-08-2012, 08:59 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by keppel146 View Post
yeah especially if he wants to do a somewhat long term deal, they really dont have that much young talent. i think the wild are a much better option
Don't let Jersey fans hear you say that.

Kovalchuk, Larsson, Tedenby and Merril automatically make their future brighter than ours. Nevermind Granlund, Brodin, Larsson, Hackett, Koivu, or any other player. Jersey has a better future than us. They deserve Parise.

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Old
05-08-2012, 09:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Don't let Jersey fans hear you say that.

Kovalchuk, Larsson, Tedenby and Merril automatically make their future brighter than ours. Nevermind Granlund, Brodin, Larsson, Hackett, Koivu, or any other player. Jersey has a better future than us. They deserve Parise.
Are you trying to use reverse psychology here?

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05-08-2012, 09:42 PM
  #79
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Are you trying to use reverse psychology here?
No, just reposting the logical posts that most Devils fans spout when Parise is mentioned as coming to Minnesota. I've seen it in quite a few places. They seem to think their future is genuinely better than ours. I laugh at that.

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Old
05-08-2012, 10:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
No, just reposting the logical posts that most Devils fans spout when Parise is mentioned as coming to Minnesota. I've seen it in quite a few places. They seem to think their future is genuinely better than ours. I laugh at that.
There's a super easy response when any Devil's fan says that.

"Who's your starting goalie 2 years from now? I've forgotten..."

We have what? 3, 4 possible answers to that? (lets see... Harding: maybe. Hackett: the easy front-runner. Kuemper: our NA long-shot Our 2-3 Euro prospects)...

They have zero.

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05-09-2012, 12:10 AM
  #81
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You act like its really necessary to bring up a goalie in your system. I would say that goalies are one of those positions that unless you have brought up a stud you can easily jump into the free agent market and pick up a decent one to get you through and hey they might just end up playing well like smith, brian elliot and dwayne roloson the other year. The very elite goaltenders like Rinne and Lundqvist play well year after year but other less elite goalies seem to have up and down years. So unless you have brought up a true stud which you probably won't know until they are into their late 20s I would say picking up spare parts works just fine.

Saying that, a goalie for the future is probably the least of Parise's concerns. I would want great skaters around me. And yes some of their core is aging (Elias, Sykora, Zubrus, Zidlicky, Brodeur) and that could lead him to want to switch things up at the end of this year. I would say that is the only thing we have on NJ.

I really wish we could have made the playoffs this year. We would have been able to draw free agent much better imo if we had. But hopefully our strong start showed teams we have potential to win and we just need a little more.


Last edited by Randy BoBandy: 05-09-2012 at 03:58 AM.
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Old
05-09-2012, 02:16 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
You act like its really necessary to bring up a goalie in your system. I would say that goalies are one of those positions that unless you have brought up a stud you can easily jump into the free agent market and pick up a decent one to get you through and hey they might just end up playing well like craig anderson, brian elliot and dwayne roloson the other year. The very elite goaltenders like Rinne and Lundqvist play well year after year but other less elite goalies seem to have up and down years. So unless you have brought up a true stud which you probably won't know until they are into their late 20s I would say picking up spare parts works just fine.

Saying that, a goalie for the future is probably the least of Parise's concerns. I would want great skaters around me. And yes some of their core is aging (Elias, Sykora, Zubrus, Zidlicky, Brodeur) and that could lead him to want to switch things up at the end of this year. I would say that is the only thing we have on NJ.

I really wish we could have made the playoffs this year. We would have been able to draw free agent much better imo if we had. But hopefully our strong start showed teams we have potential to win and we just need a little more.
Look at the soon-to-be-finished round of the playoffs.

LA: Quick - in the system
STL: Halak (traded for to be an established goalie) and Elliot (good, but not good enough)

Pho: Smith - a big surprise, but look at his coach...
Nash: Rinne - in the system

NJ: Broduer - in the system for 2 decades
Phi: Tried to buy a goalie, and he's a head case

NYR: Lundqvist - in the system
Wash: Holtby - the fact they're as far as they are proves my point better than any other example I could come up with. *THIRD* string goalie in the system...

So, of the last 8 teams, you've got one example that fits your argument, one that's open to arguement in STL and 6 that fit my argument. Not very compelling...

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Old
05-09-2012, 03:56 AM
  #83
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I am just saying there are capable backups available that can do quite a good job. Not to mention it seems very hard to peg who the next great goalie is going to be for a certain team. Diamonds in the rough pop up much more in goaltending than in any other position.

You say we are stacked with Goalie prospects compared to the Devils. Who cares, they are prospects and if I have learned anything from the way things work for Wild hockey, prospects bust and it happens a lot. Sure Hackett has seemed good in what like 10 NHL games but he could easily end up being a journey man backup. He is a long way from becoming a NHL starting goalie and the others are even farther away.

A few free agents from the past couple seasons just demonstrate that you can find solid goaltending in free agency. Elliot had the best stats from the regular season. Then there is Smith, Niemi, Theodore, Vokoun who all played pretty dang good this year. Hedberg also played lights out when he was allowed to play this year in Martys absence. In short I am sure the Devils will find an adequate goalie once Marty is gone.

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:14 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
I am just saying there are capable backups available that can do quite a good job. Not to mention it seems very hard to peg who the next great goalie is going to be for a certain team. Diamonds in the rough pop up much more in goaltending than in any other position.

You say we are stacked with Goalie prospects compared to the Devils. Who cares, they are prospects and if I have learned anything from the way things work for Wild hockey, prospects bust and it happens a lot. Sure Hackett has seemed good in what like 10 NHL games but he could easily end up being a journey man backup. He is a long way from becoming a NHL starting goalie and the others are even farther away.
I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of seeing this argument:

1) Wild prospects are worthless because they're prospects and 'could bust'

2) Prospects for other teams are amazing certainties

3) NHL 4th liners are better than prospects because they're NHLers

Seriously, people need to get off the Riseborough kool-aid.

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05-09-2012, 09:23 AM
  #85
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IMO Devils show two things:

1. Don't underestimate the importance of quality players throughout the lineup. They might only have a couple star forwards, but they can roll all their lines and D pairings with solid guys who can play the game.

2. You have to build from the defense out. That starts with your defensive scheme (coaching and players who buy in) and quality defenders who aren't inept with the puck, etc.

IMO Parise will probably re-sign. Kovalchuk locked in, their best players are younger guys, they'll find a new goalie and be competitive.

Focus on Suter. We need some strong defensemen on this team. Gilbert is a good second pairing guy, Scandella might be a second pairing guy, Brodin can be a top four defenseman, we'll have to draft a good defenseman with some offensive instincts, but gotta try and bring in at least one really strong two-way defenseman. Enough with these borderline AHL jokers like Falk, Prosser, and Kampfer. Get some NHL'ers in here.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:13 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of seeing this argument:

1) Wild prospects are worthless because they're prospects and 'could bust'

2) Prospects for other teams are amazing certainties

3) NHL 4th liners are better than prospects because they're NHLers

Seriously, people need to get off the Riseborough kool-aid.
Ya since that was my argument. I responded to a post that said we have 3 great goalie prospects and the devils have 0 so we are better off. 1. Never did I say our goalie prospects are worthless. I mentioned goalies don't always have as smooth of transition as expected when looking at their previous work in lower levels so are goalie prospects are hardly for sure things. So yes they might bust, not everyone makes the show thats just how it is. 2.Never mentioned any other teams prospects, just that I am sure the Devils will have a few quality goalie options lined up once Brodeur goes down just like we think we do when Backstrom is gone. 3. Okay actually read my posts. 4th liners are never even mentioned and I am not talking about trades or even skaters. I am talking about goalies.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:29 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
Ya since that was my argument. I responded to a post that said we have 3 great goalie prospects and the devils have 0 so we are better off. 1. Never did I say our goalie prospects are worthless. I mentioned goalies don't always have as smooth of transition as expected when looking at their previous work in lower levels so are goalie prospects are hardly for sure things. So yes they might bust, not everyone makes the show thats just how it is. 2.Never mentioned any other teams prospects, just that I am sure the Devils will have a few quality goalie options lined up once Brodeur goes down just like we think we do when Backstrom is gone. 3. Okay actually read my posts. 4th liners are never even mentioned and I am not talking about trades or even skaters. I am talking about goalies.
Maybe you should be the one actually reading your posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patp14
Who cares, they are prospects and if I have learned anything from the way things work for Wild hockey, prospects bust and it happens a lot. Sure Hackett has seemed good in what like 10 NHL games but he could easily end up being a journey man backup. He is a long way from becoming a NHL starting goalie and the others are even farther away.
Yes, I extrapolated the rest of the argument as typically presented, but had you bothered to think before posting that would have been pretty obvious. You're making the argument that the Wild are automatically worthless in net because their prospects will (not might but will) bust.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:42 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Focus on Suter. We need some strong defensemen on this team. Gilbert is a good second pairing guy, Scandella might be a second pairing guy, Brodin can be a top four defenseman, we'll have to draft a good defenseman with some offensive instincts, but gotta try and bring in at least one really strong two-way defenseman. Enough with these borderline AHL jokers like Falk, Prosser, and Kampfer. Get some NHL'ers in here.
DING DING DING...

Although, I'll be happy when Kampfer turns into a decent blue liner in a few years, but he is a few years out.

Throw Spurgeon in your AHL jokers list and we'll be on the same page.

I wouldn't be opposed to running with Brodin, Scandella and Gilbert in our top four, but that is only three players. Spurgeon would be great for a bottom pairing... but if he is your "Lidstrom"...

Your team is sorta effed.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:54 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Maybe you should be the one actually reading your posts:



Yes, I extrapolated the rest of the argument as typically presented, but had you bothered to think before posting that would have been pretty obvious. You're making the argument that the Wild are automatically worthless in net because their prospects will (not might but will) bust.
Okay I shouldn't have singled out the Minnesota Wild as having a lot of busts because many teams have busts year after year as well sorry.

But come on I'm just being realistic about our prospects. I didn't say they are all going to bust but that we shouldn't be so confident our goalie options are that much greater than the Devils. You are exaggerating my statements but whatever I am sure you know what I meant to say better than I do.

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Old
05-09-2012, 12:13 PM
  #90
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Spurgeon to me is a good third pairing guy. Falk, Prosser, and Kampfer were all decent third pairing guys sometimes, and terrible at others.

Actually I forgot about Stoner, I'd take him over any of those three. He's a good third pairing guy too, just has health issues. But I'd have him and Spurgeon and one of those three guys above as the 7th guy to fill in when Stoner is hurt.

Suter-Scandella
Brodin-Gilbert
Spurgeon-Stoner

Would be ideal.

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Old
05-09-2012, 12:15 PM
  #91
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Spurgeon to me is a good third pairing guy. Falk, Prosser, and Kampfer were all decent third pairing guys sometimes, and terrible at others.

Actually I forgot about Stoner, I'd take him over any of those three. He's a good third pairing guy too, just has health issues. But I'd have him and Spurgeon and one of those three guys above as the 7th guy to fill in when Stoner is hurt.

Suter-Scandella
Brodin-Gilbert
Spurgeon-Stoner

Would be ideal.
I think i just got a hypothetical Defense boner.

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Old
05-09-2012, 12:32 PM
  #92
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Spurgeon to me is a good third pairing guy. Falk, Prosser, and Kampfer were all decent third pairing guys sometimes, and terrible at others.

Actually I forgot about Stoner, I'd take him over any of those three. He's a good third pairing guy too, just has health issues. But I'd have him and Spurgeon and one of those three guys above as the 7th guy to fill in when Stoner is hurt.

Suter-Scandella
Brodin-Gilbert
Spurgeon-Stoner

Would be ideal.
I'd mix it around a little...

Suter - Gilbert
Brodin - Scandella
Spurgeon - Falk/Prosser

If no Suter...

Gilbert - Scandella (worked well together at the end of March)
Brodin - Oduya
Spurgeon - Falk/Prosser

Simply put, I figure Stoner walks.

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Old
05-09-2012, 01:45 PM
  #93
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I've already put the thoughts of Suter and Parise completely out of my mind. I don't even consider signing them a possibility. I think it'll be another free agency of little to no signings of any significance.

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05-09-2012, 02:03 PM
  #94
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I just expect this team to be a complete, dismal failure in every way. That way, if they manage to not be a disaster, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

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05-09-2012, 02:05 PM
  #95
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I just expect this team to be a complete, dismal failure in every way. That way, if they manage to not be a disaster, it'll be a pleasant surprise.
Why being so negative?

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05-09-2012, 02:06 PM
  #96
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Seen the team lately?

I don't like the core players, don't trust the coach, and am sick of watching them lose enough to be a laughing stock but not enough to get a high draft pick.

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05-09-2012, 02:16 PM
  #97
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Seen the team lately?

I don't like the core players, don't trust the coach, and am sick of watching them lose enough to be a laughing stock but not enough to get a high draft pick.
I don't have time to be negative. Every moment spent in a negative mood is spent wasted. Life is too short to be miserable.

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05-09-2012, 02:24 PM
  #98
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I don't have time to be negative. Every moment spent in a negative mood is spent wasted. Life is too short to be miserable.
Our sunshine and lollipop stock doesn't get replenished until the day of the draft. Oh well.

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05-09-2012, 02:31 PM
  #99
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Our sunshine and lollipop stock doesn't get replenished until the day of the draft. Oh well.
Why get worked up over something you cannot change? Don't like how the team is playing? Cool. Instead of ranting and raving, go do something you enjoy.

Guess I just have a different perspective.

I still hope/expect the team to sign Parise AND Suter. Don't like it? Don't care.

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Old
05-09-2012, 02:34 PM
  #100
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I'm not negative about everything. Just the team. When I see them have some sustained success, I'll start to believe again.

Keep in mind, I'm a born and raised Minnesota sports fan. I've been trained to expect failure, since 1991.

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