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A new 2nd line to Vancouver

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Old
04-20-2012, 08:29 AM
  #1
GoTeamDom
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A new 2nd line to Vancouver

The Canucks' offense goes as far as the Sedins and their PP will take them.

Sure, Kesler put up 40g once, but he is not a sniper by any means. And he's also not a playmaker. I also think he would benefit from a change in scenery, and the Canucks can replace his defense and face offs by committee. The Canucks have tried for the last 3 years to find wingers to complement him with no luck. Time to try something new.

The Task: Build the Canucks a new second line.

Assume that Vancouver undergoes a 2011-Flyers type off-season and decides to trade (at least) the entire 2nd line for more consistent offensive upside. Aside from Daniel Sedin, the Canucks do not possess any pure snipers on the team. This is an organizational black hole.

Assume Vancouver builds around a core of Henrik, Daniel, Higgins, Kassian, Hansen and Lapierre; on defense, untouchables are Hamhuis, Bieksa and Gragnani ( but seriously). Salo will probably be back too.

Must Go:
Kesler
Raymond

Additional Assets:
Booth
Schneider
Ballard
Alberts
1st


Will cost you, but may be available:

Edler
Burrows
Tanev

Desirable pieces around the NHL:
- Scoring power forwards (JvR, Ryan, Benn, Neal, etc)
- Young, offensive centres (Johansen, Seguin, Kane, Kane, Hodgson )

Undesirable pieces around the NHL:
- Aging second-tier stars
- One-hit wonders
- Kadri, Bozak, Lupul


EDIT:


For a visual guide, here are what I consider "locks" for 2012/13 (for this exercise at least):

Sedin-Sedin-_____
____ - ______ - _____
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
______ - Malholtra - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
____ - Salo
Gragnani - _____

Luongo

Edler, Burrows and Tanev most likely returning. Higgins could also be elevated to the 2nd line or Burrows brought down there as well.


Last edited by GoTeamDom: 04-20-2012 at 08:48 AM.
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04-20-2012, 08:38 AM
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HiddenInLight
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Maybe something around Roy + for Kessler? Two centers who can put up points, both pretty good defensively and at the dot, both need a change of scenery....

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04-20-2012, 08:45 AM
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SoupNazi
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I enjoyed the last line of the "undesirable" section.

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04-20-2012, 08:50 AM
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GoTeamDom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
I enjoyed the last line of the "undesirable" section.


Just so Leafs fans can play along, I actually do think Kessel would be a very good fit in Van playing with the Sedins

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04-20-2012, 09:08 AM
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Tiranis
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Maybe something around Roy + for Kessler? Two centers who can put up points, both pretty good defensively and at the dot, both need a change of scenery....
Roy is signed for only one more year, is older and not as good as Kesler so the + would have to be substantial for Vancouver to even listen.

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04-20-2012, 09:18 AM
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Pointteen
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Roy is signed for only one more year, is older and not as good as Kesler so the + would have to be substantial for Vancouver to even listen.
Buffalo has a good handful of draft picks this year. Take advantage of them.

I can't believe I am posting in a fix the Canucks thread, but its looking like the reasons I don't like you guys (Kesler, Luongo and Lapierre) are mostly gonna be gone.
Sign Alex Semin if he makes it to UFA status. He would be a perfect secondary scoring threat. I know all about him and I am encouraging a 'rival' team to improve.
So long as you have him on a line with someone who works as hard as Higgins does. Its too bad Jason Blake sucks as a hockey player because he has that amazing work ethic that could rub off on him.

Actually, Roy a first round pick seem like a decent start.

What about Raymond for Clowe as a base trade? Add to whichever side because I don't know about value on Raymond. Raymond and Booth for Clowe and a midround draft pick?
Semin Roy and Clowe as a second line is unreal. It also allows you to keep Edler and solid depth.

I feel like I just committed a crime.

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04-20-2012, 09:22 AM
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Vancouver wants NOTHING to do with Derek Roy, not what they need! Kesler will being going nowhere either, if anything Canucks brass will attempt to get more of a playmaking winger like Parise and trade Booth.

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04-20-2012, 09:24 AM
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Pointteen
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
Vancouver wants NOTHING to do with Derek Roy, not what they need! Kesler will being going nowhere either, if anything Canucks brass will attempt to get more of a playmaking winger like Parise and trade Booth.
wouldn't that result in cap hell?

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04-20-2012, 09:25 AM
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I hear Scott Gomez would like to finish his career in Vancouver

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04-20-2012, 09:30 AM
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Falconator
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wouldn't that result in cap hell?
How so? Booth makes $4.2 mil, Mason Raymond will gone, there's enough cap space right there to sign Parise. When the Canucks get knocked out this year there'll be some changes for sure!!

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04-20-2012, 09:35 AM
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a deal involving Pleks for Kessler as the main parts with some picks thrown in there??

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04-20-2012, 09:35 AM
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GoTeamDom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointteen View Post
Buffalo has a good handful of draft picks this year. Take advantage of them.

I can't believe I am posting in a fix the Canucks thread, but its looking like the reasons I don't like you guys (Kesler, Luongo and Lapierre) are mostly gonna be gone.
Sign Alex Semin if he makes it to UFA status. He would be a perfect secondary scoring threat. I know all about him and I am encouraging a 'rival' team to improve.
So long as you have him on a line with someone who works as hard as Higgins does. Its too bad Jason Blake sucks as a hockey player because he has that amazing work ethic that could rub off on him.

Actually, Roy a first round pick seem like a decent start.

What about Raymond for Clowe as a base trade? Add to whichever side because I don't know about value on Raymond. Raymond and Booth for Clowe and a midround draft pick?
Semin Roy and Clowe as a second line is unreal. It also allows you to keep Edler and solid depth.

I feel like I just committed a crime.
Thanks for the input.

I think Raymond is seeing a down year and will bounce back to 20g/50pt range again. I have always thought that if he had a chance to play with an elite playmaker (Crosby, Thornton, Krejci) on a game-in, game-out basis that he could be a solid 30+ goalscorer. He's basically Dupuis of the West.

Raymond for Clowe would be a good trade, probably have to send a pick to SJS to balance things out.

The problem with your 2nd line above is that the Canucks actually get older. Ideally, the Canucks' 2nd line (or at least parts of it) would eventually emerge as the new #1 as the Sedins eventually settle into 2nd line production when they are 35+.

I'd be more comfortable if at least one of the new 2nd line were on a rookie or 2nd deal.

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04-20-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
How so? Booth makes $4.2 mil, Mason Raymond will gone, there's enough cap space right there to sign Parise. When the Canucks get knocked out this year there'll be some changes for sure!!
I assumed the Canucks were right at the cap and signing Parise would put you guys in a bad spot for trading, but I guess if you get Parise then who cares what the return is for Booth or Raymond

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04-20-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
Vancouver wants NOTHING to do with Derek Roy, not what they need! Kesler will being going nowhere either, if anything Canucks brass will attempt to get more of a playmaking winger like Parise and trade Booth.
I love Parise, but he's a scoring winger.

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04-20-2012, 09:41 AM
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Pointteen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoTeamDom View Post
Thanks for the input.

I think Raymond is seeing a down year and will bounce back to 20g/50pt range again. I have always thought that if he had a chance to play with an elite playmaker (Crosby, Thornton, Krejci) on a game-in, game-out basis that he could be a solid 30+ goalscorer. He's basically Dupuis of the West.

Raymond for Clowe would be a good trade, probably have to send a pick to SJS to balance things out.

The problem with your 2nd line above is that the Canucks actually get older. Ideally, the Canucks' 2nd line (or at least parts of it) would eventually emerge as the new #1 as the Sedins eventually settle into 2nd line production when they are 35+.

I'd be more comfortable if at least one of the new 2nd line were on a rookie or 2nd deal.
Ah, I was thinking short term. I'd have you guys as cup favourites again if those lines worked out well.
Sam Gagner is young... Haha

that takes every ufa off of the table. What about Kesler for Zajac? Or is he pushing the age limit?

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04-20-2012, 09:47 AM
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Lecavalier for Luongo then make minor changes after that.

Keep Kesler as your #3, Lappy to the 4th line (you don't have scoring depth with a guy like Lappy as your #3 pivot).

Flip Lecavalier to Montreal for Plekancecs if you want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
How so? Booth makes $4.2 mil, Mason Raymond will gone, there's enough cap space right there to sign Parise. When the Canucks get knocked out this year there'll be some changes for sure!!
Your not trading Booth for picks and prospects. A 4.2 million dollar salary with injury issues will surely get salary back in return and it's not going to be good salary either. Tallon effectively replaced Booth this year with a comparable offensive production and completely removed his salary for next year. He was only able to pull it off because he found a trading partner who had high expectations and was slow out of the gate. The same task is much more difficult during the offseason.


Last edited by vipernsx: 04-20-2012 at 10:01 AM.
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Old
04-20-2012, 09:56 AM
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This is actually a really hard thing to do...

One thing I REALLY liked from the last game though was Booth with the Sedins. I definitely want to see that line together again, so I'm not ready to give up on Booth yet.

The problem is with Kesler, if he gets dealt who is going to center the 2nd. I'd be willing to see Schroeder, but thats my opinion and it's not a popular one. So essentially you need to trade Kesler and get a center back in return... which is likely not to happen (atleast not a center of the quality people would want).

THEREFORE, you'd likely need to trade another valuable asset to get that 2C... Like Edler.
But then if you trade Edler, that opens up a whole other hole on Defense.

And if you do end up finding a 2C, you need to find a winger for him hah.

But here's an attempt, and obviously it would include so many things to happen it wont ever happen. But hopefully the values would be close...

To Pittsburgh: Edler
To Vancouver: Staal

To Tampa Bay: Luongo
To Vancouver: Det 1st, Connolly
(I'm going to believe that SFY is going to see what alot of HF people refuse to see about Luongo, he WAS SFY's Olympic goalie afterall).

To Calgary: Vancouvers 1st and Detroits 1st (From TB), Mason Raymond
To Vancouver: Jay Bouwmeester

To Toronto (If Galchenyuk is gone already): Ryan Kesler
To Vancouver: 5th overall, Colborne, Franson

To Philly: 5th Overall, Sauve
To Vancouver: JVR



Sedin - Sedin - Booth
JVR - Staal - Burrows
Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen
Malhotra - Lapierre - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Bouwmeester - Franson
Ballard - Tanev

Schneider
Backup



Whew...

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04-20-2012, 09:58 AM
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I wouldn't mind a Sam Gagner, but I am very doubtful that Edmonton or Vancouver would be interested in trading with each other. Too much bad blood between front offices, let alone division rivalries.

Zajac is a nice player, but his ceiling isn't as high as I would like. I would be more interested in Henrique+ from the Devils if Kesler was going the other way.

Similarly Stepan+ is also a deal I would consider, or Schenn/Simmonds if the Flyers want a reversal on the Richards trade

Moving forward, like 3-5 years from now, it would be nice if Kassian would develop into a top-6 forward, and I feel that is what GMMG thinks as well.

I am not going to say Kassian is the next Lucic, but I see him peaking as a Scott Hartnell type, industrious top-6, 55 pt player.

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04-20-2012, 10:03 AM
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GoTeamDom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaRider View Post
T
To Toronto (If Galchenyuk is gone already): Ryan Kesler
To Vancouver: 5th overall, Colborne, Franson
Curious to wonder if you think Kesler is worth more than Schneider as I see Schneider being offered up for a high first only (usually to CBJ), let alone Colborne and Franson.

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04-20-2012, 10:04 AM
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vipernsx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoTeamDom View Post
I wouldn't mind a Sam Gagner, but I am very doubtful that Edmonton or Vancouver would be interested in trading with each other. Too much bad blood between front offices, let alone division rivalries.

Zajac is a nice player, but his ceiling isn't as high as I would like. I would be more interested in Henrique+ from the Devils if Kesler was going the other way.

Similarly Stepan+ is also a deal I would consider, or Schenn/Simmonds if the Flyers want a reversal on the Richards trade

Moving forward, like 3-5 years from now, it would be nice if Kassian would develop into a top-6 forward, and I feel that is what GMMG thinks as well.

I am not going to say Kassian is the next Lucic, but I see him peaking as a Scott Hartnell type, industrious top-6, 55 pt player.
AA maybe, Stepan's staying in Broadway. The Rangers like having two opposite handed playmaking centers. You don't give something like that up.

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04-20-2012, 10:08 AM
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GoTeamDom
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
AA maybe, Stepan's staying in Broadway. The Rangers like having two opposite handed playmaking centers. You don't give something like that up.
I know Kesler isn't a playmaker, but he is a right-handed centreman as well. Matters most when taking faceoffs and he's money at that.

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04-20-2012, 10:52 AM
  #22
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clowe + pavelski for kesler + raymond?

pavelski fills either the top line rw, or 2nd line center. yous know what clowe brings.

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Old
04-20-2012, 11:08 AM
  #23
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Just because you didn't put him in the undesirable sections I will say:

MacArthur + 2nd round pick (to make the trade even of course) for Kesler

MacArthur has only 17 less points than Kesler last 2 seasons so Vancouver should take this and run!

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Old
04-20-2012, 11:56 AM
  #24
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Just because you didn't put him in the undesirable sections I will say:

MacArthur + 2nd round pick (to make the trade even of course) for Kesler

MacArthur has only 17 less points than Kesler last 2 seasons so Vancouver should take this and run!
I'm a leafs fan and even I know that is god awful.


MacA may be a good second line/third liner but he is still a winger and Kesler holds far more value then Mac. If Kesler is traded then they will want....


A) Someone who can step into that soon or can do it already.

B) A top 4 Dman.



Honestly I would start thinking that if Gally is taken and Murray by some form is on the board still trading the likes of Schenn or Gunnar to try pry Kesler out. By no means am I saying a straight across trade but that would be my starting point for a trade.

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Old
04-20-2012, 12:00 PM
  #25
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any interest in a deal "based" around schenn/gunnarson and kulemin for kesler?

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