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CBJ face lift (EDM and NYR)

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Old
04-23-2012, 10:03 AM
  #1
wahsnairb
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CBJ face lift (EDM and NYR)

to Oilers:
Johansen, Methot, LAK 1st

to CBJ:
EDM 1st

Oilers get a young kid they have made it known that they like and more flexibility to move someone like Gagner, a good defensive D who could be expendable with Moore and Savard playing so well as rookies (Methot is getting more WC time this year for Canada, though) and a mid 1st (most likely) or 1st next year from LA in JJ for Carter deal.

Jackets obviously get a potential star that they need bad (skill and marketing) if they do move Nash.. which brings me to:

to Rangers:
Nash, Savard, PHX 2nd

to Jackets:
Dubinsky, MDZ, Kreider, 2013 1st

Jackets add one of their very good young D and 2nd to the rumored trade at the deadline to encourage NYR to upgrade to MDZ and keep a now signed Kreider. Obviously this would look more enticing as NYR struggle to score and if they were to be knocked out in this 1st round by Ottawa.


Please don't be mean.. this is just for funzies while I am in class and thinking about how sad the Jackets are.


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04-23-2012, 10:25 AM
  #2
CM Lundqvist
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Again, Rangers will not be giving up McDonagh, MDZ, or Kreider in a deal for Nash.

If I'm Sather, I play chicken with Howson and let Nash force his hand again. It will eventually happen. Dreger himself was told by multiple sources on deadline day and the day after that Nash's list will likely dwindle even more, possibly to just the Rangers.

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04-23-2012, 10:29 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Again, Rangers will not be giving up McDonagh, MDZ, or Kreider in a deal for Nash.

If I'm Sather, I play chicken with Howson and let Nash force his hand again. It will eventually happen. Dreger himself was told by multiple sources on deadline day and the day after that Nash's list will likely dwindle even more, possibly to just the Rangers.
Nash doing that would be a dick move. If I were Howson and was stuck with that, I'd tell him to rethink it or to settle in for another season in Columbus, he could alsways hold out, but that never works well for the player.

But that all depends on how big Howson's cajones are.

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04-23-2012, 10:31 AM
  #4
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Oilers turn down that deal

Methot is a 5-6 d-man long term and the oilers were offered Johansen awhile ago for Eberle and turned that down--LAK pick could be 30h overall

not enough for the oilers to trade the top guy

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04-23-2012, 10:36 AM
  #5
wahsnairb
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Originally Posted by DogEatDog View Post
Oilers turn down that deal

Methot is a 5-6 d-man long term and the oilers were offered Johansen awhile ago for Eberle and turned that down--LAK pick could be 30h overall

not enough for the oilers to trade the top guy
makes sense.. I was trying to make Johansen + 1st (#2) work but I just couldn't think of any way to please both teams.

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04-23-2012, 10:36 AM
  #6
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I dont see the Rangers (or anyone really) trading for Nash until after the big free agents have signed, mostly Parise. Howson may have to wait until late July-August to get the Nash situation worked out now.

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04-23-2012, 10:41 AM
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Trxjw
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An equally large problem for the Rangers is their ability to transition out of their own end. Outside of Del Zotto, we have no puck moving defensemen on our roster. Erixon is a "could be" and McDonagh's offensive upside is too big of a question mark to justify dealing Del Zotto.

If Nash is going to be a Ranger, it's going to be because the Jackets lowered their price. That's not likely to happen, so he'll probably go elsewhere. We finished the season in first place and have stumbled a bit in the playoffs. No reason to make a panic move like fixing all of Columbus' past mistakes by giving up the farm for Nash.

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04-23-2012, 10:52 AM
  #8
wahsnairb
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
An equally large problem for the Rangers is their ability to transition out of their own end. Outside of Del Zotto, we have no puck moving defensemen on our roster. Erixon is a "could be" and McDonagh's offensive upside is too big of a question mark to justify dealing Del Zotto.

If Nash is going to be a Ranger, it's going to be because the Jackets lowered their price. That's not likely to happen, so he'll probably go elsewhere. We finished the season in first place and have stumbled a bit in the playoffs. No reason to make a panic move like fixing all of Columbus' past mistakes by giving up the farm for Nash.
Is the following more appealing?:

Nash, PHX 2nd
for
Dubinsky, Kreider, 2012 1st, 2013 1st

Savard and MDZ taken out to simplify.. and Dubinsky is a throw in for salary the way he is playing, is he not? I don't think jackets do it without a D upgrade like Savard to MDZ, but just curious.

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04-23-2012, 11:20 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
Is the following more appealing?:

Nash, PHX 2nd
for
Dubinsky, Kreider, 2012 1st, 2013 1st

Savard and MDZ taken out to simplify.. and Dubinsky is a throw in for salary the way he is playing, is he not? I don't think jackets do it without a D upgrade like Savard to MDZ, but just curious.
I don't think Dubinsky is a throw-in anywhere but on trade rumor threads. He's still a versatile player, he's just lost his way on the Rangers. He'd obviously have to be included for cap reasons, but despite his status on HFBoards, I don't think the Rangers are dying to ship him out the door.

Kreider is the golden child of the Rangers prospect pool. I think he gets overrated by many posters, but he's still a very talented prospect. The organization loves him. Great character, size, wheels, shot, etc. If he can learn to process the game at an NHL level, he has 30 goal potential. If anything, I think the Rangers would want Nash to be a mentor for Kreider. Rangers didn't want to give him up in February, and I don't think that'll change anytime soon.

I think if the Rangers caved on their offer the might include Staal. However, I just can't see a deal being done. Especially with Craig Patrick at the helm.

Some insight onto how some of the Rangers brass felt about the deal:

Quote:
His decision had to be a relief to the Rangers, who had pressed Kreider to turn pro after his both freshman and sophomore seasons and who were reluctant to acquire superstar Rick Nash if it meant giving up Kreider to the last-place Columbus Blue Jackets in the trade.

"He wasn't the only reason, but he was a big part," said Gordie Clark, the Rangers' vice-president of player personnel. "They were asking for so bloody much. As I said in the [war] room, 'Jeez, Columbus wants to give us Nash, but they want us to look like Columbus when we get him.'"
Article here

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04-23-2012, 11:31 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Nash doing that would be a dick move. If I were Howson and was stuck with that, I'd tell him to rethink it or to settle in for another season in Columbus, he could alsways hold out, but that never works well for the player.

But that all depends on how big Howson's cajones are.
It is a 2 way street; player wants to go here; club wants to send him there.

Typically this is not an issue. But when the player has a big enough contract for enough duration he represents substantial investment, he gets the input.

And ultimately, it is the club that, to a certain extent, must bend, buckle and break and yield to the player, who only has to show up and play to fulfill his contract.

Erixon wanted to come here. Slats could have played even more hardball. We got him at big discount, but under circumstances it was not wholly unreasonable.

Howson has to come way down to earth. Period.
No premium prospects: Kreider, JT MIller, Fasth, McIlrath.

A couple of decent prospect + a couple of decent players.
Maybe swap out (not add, but swap out) a pick.
That's it.

If Howson doesn't like it, he can eat that huge contract, which I am not too crazy about NYR picking up, even if Nash is a bonafide sniper.

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04-23-2012, 11:32 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
An equally large problem for the Rangers is their ability to transition out of their own end. Outside of Del Zotto, we have no puck moving defensemen on our roster. Erixon is a "could be" and McDonagh's offensive upside is too big of a question mark to justify dealing Del Zotto.

If Nash is going to be a Ranger, it's going to be because the Jackets lowered their price. That's not likely to happen, so he'll probably go elsewhere. We finished the season in first place and have stumbled a bit in the playoffs. No reason to make a panic move like fixing all of Columbus' past mistakes by giving up the farm for Nash.
Hits the nail on the button.

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04-23-2012, 12:00 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Again, Rangers will not be giving up McDonagh, MDZ, or Kreider in a deal for Nash.

If I'm Sather, I play chicken with Howson and let Nash force his hand again. It will eventually happen. Dreger himself was told by multiple sources on deadline day and the day after that Nash's list will likely dwindle even more, possibly to just the Rangers.
"It's a great question. I can't answer," ... "I will say that as long as I'ma Blue Jacket, I will give 110 percent for the organization and the fans, and that is the truth." - Rick Nash

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04-23-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think Dubinsky is a throw-in anywhere but on trade rumor threads. He's still a versatile player, he's just lost his way on the Rangers. He'd obviously have to be included for cap reasons, but despite his status on HFBoards, I don't think the Rangers are dying to ship him out the door.

Kreider is the golden child of the Rangers prospect pool. I think he gets overrated by many posters, but he's still a very talented prospect. The organization loves him. Great character, size, wheels, shot, etc. If he can learn to process the game at an NHL level, he has 30 goal potential. If anything, I think the Rangers would want Nash to be a mentor for Kreider. Rangers didn't want to give him up in February, and I don't think that'll change anytime soon.

I think if the Rangers caved on their offer the might include Staal. However, I just can't see a deal being done. Especially with Craig Patrick at the helm.
Perfect post. My thoughts exactly.

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Old
04-23-2012, 12:07 PM
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"It's a great question. I can't answer," ... "I will say that as long as I'ma Blue Jacket, I will give 110 percent for the organization and the fans, and that is the truth." - Rick Nash
To some extent I think it's true. But you got to remember that Nash is a human being just like all of us. And he has been there for around 10 years without any progress being done. Sooner or later you get tired off it.

Nash requested a trade because he had no faith in the GM and he went to the management group and the owners. They basically said nothings gonna change at management level. So Nash asked for a trade.


He probably loves Columbus, the city, the community and so on. But he is no longer 20 years old. He is ageing. He wants to play more playoff games before he retires (no I do not know him, just basic math). And it's clear that it's not gonna be in a nearby future if he stays in Columbus with Howson as the GM.


Rangers and alot of teams are gonna pursue Parise in the offseason IMO (if Parise do not resign with the devils that is). And Rangers do not want to give up the farm for Nash. Nash only has 5 teams on his list and his agent has clearly stated that it will not change. So Howson got to do something sooner or later.


Keep your slightly overpaid star and risk him eventually turn into a lockeroom cancer or option 2, trade him for a good package (not gonna get a great one, u never do when dealing superstars).

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04-23-2012, 12:20 PM
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It's hard to see why Edmonton would drop to the end of the first round for pieces they don't need or improves the team beyond the current talent level - especially not as much as the first pick would (either the player or the potential haul from other interested clubs).

As far as Nash to New York, my concern is how would Nash fit in with Tortorella and his system. I don't know if Nash enjoyed Hitchcock, but he'd better be open and willing to learn and abide the system, all the while remaining productive offensively.

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04-23-2012, 01:11 PM
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As far as Nash to New York, my concern is how would Nash fit in with Tortorella and his system. I don't know if Nash enjoyed Hitchcock, but he'd better be open and willing to learn and abide the system, all the while remaining productive offensively.
IMO, Nash was at his best under Hitch. He was given more responsibility defensively which motivated him, and his offense thrived.

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04-23-2012, 01:18 PM
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It's hard to see why Edmonton would drop to the end of the first round for pieces they don't need or improves the team beyond the current talent level - especially not as much as the first pick would (either the player or the potential haul from other interested clubs).

As far as Nash to New York, my concern is how would Nash fit in with Tortorella and his system. I don't know if Nash enjoyed Hitchcock, but he'd better be open and willing to learn and abide the system, all the while remaining productive offensively.
Johansen is a big young talented 4th overall pick who EDM has always wanted, Methot is not flashy, but is a very good D (like I said he gets time for Canada when the big guns are busy i.e. the WC's) and can play #4, and that LA pick could be mid 1st this season if they lose to the blues or can be used next season wherever they fall in the draft if they beat the blues and it is guaranteed to be late this year.

That isn't a bad package if it isn't the right package.

And as was just mentioned, Nash was his best under Hitch and it is Hitch and Babcock who are some of his biggest fans after having coached him.

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04-23-2012, 01:23 PM
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The EDM package is not a bad package but to get a player like Yak it has to be a bit better than that, especially since the pick is not in the top 10.

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04-23-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
to Oilers:
Johansen, Methot, LAK 1st

to CBJ:
EDM 1st

Oilers get a young kid they have made it known that they like and more flexibility to move someone like Gagner, a good defensive D who could be expendable with Moore and Savard playing so well as rookies (Methot is getting more WC time this year for Canada, though) and a mid 1st (most likely) or 1st next year from LA in JJ for Carter deal.

Jackets obviously get a potential star that they need bad (skill and marketing) if they do move Nash.. which brings me to:

to Rangers:
Nash, Savard, PHX 2nd

to Jackets:
Dubinsky, MDZ, Kreider, 2013 1st

Jackets add one of their very good young D and 2nd to the rumored trade at the deadline to encourage NYR to upgrade to MDZ and keep a now signed Kreider. Obviously this would look more enticing as NYR struggle to score and if they were to be knocked out in this 1st round by Ottawa.


Please don't be mean.. this is just for funzies while I am in class and thinking about how sad the Jackets are.

Personally I don't think EDM or CBJ does the first one. Personally I think Johansen is better than the forwards available in this year's draft so for me that's a big overpayment. Second, Johansen is a Center and holds more value than a wing. Third, we just spend 2 years of development with Johansen with one being at the NHL level already so why go back two steps (especially if Johansen is believed to be the better option - like I think).

No go for me on the first deal.

As for the NYR deal, I don't think you get MDZ and Kreider in a deal for Nash. If the claims are true that the CBJ had a better offer than the one indicated by a NYR beat writer then it had to be with a team NOT on Nash's list because I thought what was offered by NYR was pretty darn good at the time. From the NYR I would be happy with Dubinsky, Erixon, Kreider and Miller with an additional prospect from CBJ to NYR and throw picks however you like. I do think Kreider is a bit part of the equation for the CBJ and if he's not going to be included I'm not sure anything happens there. I'd love what you put out there but think it's dreaming on CBJ end.

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04-23-2012, 02:15 PM
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wahsnairb
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Personally I don't think EDM or CBJ does the first one. Personally I think Johansen is better than the forwards available in this year's draft so for me that's a big overpayment. Second, Johansen is a Center and holds more value than a wing. Third, we just spend 2 years of development with Johansen with one being at the NHL level already so why go back two steps (especially if Johansen is believed to be the better option - like I think).

No go for me on the first deal.

As for the NYR deal, I don't think you get MDZ and Kreider in a deal for Nash. If the claims are true that the CBJ had a better offer than the one indicated by a NYR beat writer then it had to be with a team NOT on Nash's list because I thought what was offered by NYR was pretty darn good at the time. From the NYR I would be happy with Dubinsky, Erixon, Kreider and Miller with an additional prospect from CBJ to NYR and throw picks however you like. I do think Kreider is a bit part of the equation for the CBJ and if he's not going to be included I'm not sure anything happens there. I'd love what you put out there but think it's dreaming on CBJ end.
It isn't for just Nash.. MDZ and Savard can be removed as Savard holds plenty of value now and I think is underrated so far in this trade (makes sense, I suppose since they have plenty of good young D).. I understand all of your comments and concerns, though.

As for the first half of what you said, Galchenyuk at 2 to continue to play with Yakupov makes it worth it for the CBJ in my opinion. I see Yakupov + Galchenyuk as slightly more promising than Johansen + Murray, but both are great options. Plus, it will take big overpayment like this to get the #1 without moving the #2.

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04-23-2012, 03:17 PM
  #21
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If I'm Sather, I play chicken with Howson and let Nash force his hand again. It will eventually happen. Dreger himself was told by multiple sources on deadline day and the day after that Nash's list will likely dwindle even more, possibly to just the Rangers.
If Nash does this his list will dwindle even lower to only one team, and that would be the Blue Jackets.

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04-23-2012, 03:21 PM
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As for the OP, the first proposal is pretty good value speaking, Edmonton might want a bit more, but the big issue is it worth trading Johansen to get Yakupov from a blue jacket standpoint? I like having the center over the winger.

Second trade I don't think you can get both Kreider and Del Zotto. Maybe if NYR get desperate, something in between this offer and the bag of mediocre crap the reports of what Rangers were offering.

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04-23-2012, 03:32 PM
  #23
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Klefbom, 1st for Johansen, 1st
Hemsky for 15-20 OVR of low scoring team
Khabibulin for 2nd rounder
Sign low price vet to back-up for a year
Trade 15-20 OVR+2nd rounders to move to 6-8

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04-23-2012, 03:33 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
As for the OP, the first proposal is pretty good value speaking, Edmonton might want a bit more, but the big issue is it worth trading Johansen to get Yakupov from a blue jacket standpoint? I like having the center over the winger.

Second trade I don't think you can get both Kreider and Del Zotto. Maybe if NYR get desperate, something in between this offer and the bag of mediocre crap the reports of what Rangers were offering.
ya, I have conceded that taking MDZ and Savard out would probably make it better now that Kreider is signed.

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04-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #25
wahsnairb
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Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
Klefbom, 1st for Johansen, 1st
Hemsky for 15-20 OVR of low scoring team
Khabibulin for 2nd rounder
Sign low price vet to back-up for a year
the jackets are much much deeper at D now than at C.. many of them young D, too.

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