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Old
04-23-2012, 06:17 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I'm simply pointing out that putting stats side by side and asking which player I want is just as stupid. And I could say the same About Marleau. The single constant in all our failures. Doubt he goes, wish he would.
How does that argument not apply to Nash and the failures in Columbus?

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04-23-2012, 06:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I'm simply pointing out that putting stats side by side and asking which player I want is just as stupid. And I could say the same About Marleau. The single constant in all our failures. Doubt he goes, wish he would.
Correlation =/= causation. Stats 101.

The point is that everyone thinks that Nash is some superstar dynamic winger, when the reality is that he's a one-dimensional 60 point player on a crappy contract.

And I was responding to the idiot that wants to trade Marleau for Nash. I already knew where you stand on this matter.

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04-23-2012, 06:56 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
I would take Nash over Iggy if we had to move for one of them. I actually wouldn't mind Nash too much, but his cap hit is way too high and there is not a chance in hell I'd want to give up Couture or Pavelski to get him.
This...and Nash is not slow. He's be one of the faster forwards on the Sharks.

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04-23-2012, 07:07 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Which player also has great defensive play, is a top penalty killer, has awesome wheels, and can player both center and wing?

The "crap team" excuse is stupid. Ilya Kovalchuk had his best years on a crap Atlanta team. Marian Hossa also had his best seasons on a crap Atlanta team.

How do you explain that Prospal had nearly as many points as Nash this season, huh? Rick Nash one of the most overrated players in the league because no one actually watches him except in international competitions.
Not that I disagree with that, but I'm pretty sure you were using the "crap team" argument to support Heatley's low point totals just a few months ago.

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04-23-2012, 07:28 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Not that I disagree with that, but I'm pretty sure you were using the "crap team" argument to support Heatley's low point totals just a few months ago.
Read the user title.

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04-23-2012, 07:32 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
As a King's fan Nash and Thorton in San Jose scares the hell out of me. You would be loosing depth though.
That doesn't make sense. Baring horrific injury the guys got at least seven more good years and I would actually guess ten.

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04-23-2012, 07:34 PM
  #57
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I'd rather 2 x 3.5-4 million goal scoring forwards, rather then 1 x R.Nash

Not because I don't like Nash, but because I think we need depth, not stars.

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04-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  #58
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Nash is very overpaid...but if we dump one of our expensive players (i.e. Clowe, Marleau, or Boyle) i'd be down. He's a consistent 30-40 goal scorer on a terrible team. In comparison to Heatley, he's bigger, much faster, and a better passer..plus he protects the puck much better. Do i think he would suddenly become a 55-60 goal scorer playing with Joe? no i'm not that naive. However, we have seen what Nash can do playing with talent on an international stage. Aside from Datsyuk, Malkin, Kovalchuk and maybe Kane I think he may be the most dangerous player in the league when he crosses the blue line with the puck (due to his size, play making ability, and hands).. Plus he has a terrific shot. I'd love to see what Nash can do playing motivated hockey in SJ. However this only happens if one of our big contracts go and Pavelski nor Couture are involved in the deal. We know SJ is on Nash's list of teams to be dealt to, but a lot of pieces are gonna have to fall in to place if we are to see Nash in teal.

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04-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  #59
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Rick Nash is a better player than some are painting him here.

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04-23-2012, 08:19 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharksfan83 View Post
I'd rather 2 x 3.5-4 million goal scoring forwards, rather then 1 x R.Nash

Not because I don't like Nash, but because I think we need depth, not stars.
Exactly for the price of Nash you could have JVR and Stafford or something.

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04-23-2012, 08:26 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
Rick Nash is a better player than some are painting him here.
+1..i think his cap hit skews peoples perception of him

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04-23-2012, 08:27 PM
  #62
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In 13 Olympic games with all-world talent, Rich Nash has a grand total of 2 goals and 4 assists.

In 2010, playing with Crosby and Iginla, Nash had a total of 5 points, 2 goals and 3 assists, in 7 games. Guess who else had the same total?

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04-23-2012, 08:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
In 13 Olympic games with all-world talent, Rich Nash has a grand total of 2 goals and 4 assists.

In 2010, playing with Crosby and Iginla, Nash had a total of 5 points, 2 goals and 3 assists, in 7 games. Guess who else had the same total?
split that up..in 2006 he had 1 point in 6 games...the result Canada finished in 7th. Wanna bet he wasn't the only player on team Canada who had a crappy Olympics? In 2010, he had 5 points in 7 games...result a gold medal. In the Worlds he has 44 points in 34 games (i know the Worlds are not as prestigious).. Look i'm not saying he is the answer to all the sharks problems, but I really think he is what the sharks need in the top 6 if the price is right.

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04-23-2012, 08:49 PM
  #64
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The asking price for Nash is way too high. I don't want the Sharks giving up any more draft picks to make it happen.

I want them to target trades where they obtain picks. We need to split Clowe and Murray into several more players, not combine them for one.

Stock the cupboards and sign FA's. Well, hopefully we can still entice FA's...

There is of course if we swapped Marleau in trade for one of Nash, Iginla, or Morrow. Then I am all for it!

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04-23-2012, 08:50 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by WSS11 View Post
split that up..in 2006 he had 1 point in 6 games...the result Canada finished in 7th. Wanna bet he wasn't the only player on team Canada who had a crappy Olympics? In 2010, he had 5 points in 7 games...result a gold medal. In the Worlds he has 44 points in 34 games (i know the Worlds are not as prestigious).. Look i'm not saying he is the answer to all the sharks problems, but I really think he is what the sharks need in the top 6 if the price is right.
And I'm saying that he isn't an improvement over anyone we'd be willing to trade. He's not better than Marleau or Thornton or Couture, Havlat won't be traded, Pavelski is much better value on his contract, and no way Columbus accepts a deal centered around Clowe.

And my point about the Olympics is that he had the same point total as Marleau, despite playing with Crosby. And WC means nothing. He's playing against crappy teams filled with crappy players.

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04-23-2012, 08:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by WSS11 View Post
split that up..in 2006 he had 1 point in 6 games...the result Canada finished in 7th. Wanna bet he wasn't the only player on team Canada who had a crappy Olympics? In 2010, he had 5 points in 7 games...result a gold medal. In the Worlds he has 44 points in 34 games (i know the Worlds are not as prestigious).. Look i'm not saying he is the answer to all the sharks problems, but I really think he is what the sharks need in the top 6 if the price is right.
Not for his caphit. He's in the Malkin/Stamkos/Crosby/Ovechkin/Staal cap range. Sharks don't need a hit that high on this team. You think we're top heavy now? Trade for Nash. Then we'll be TOP heavy.

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04-23-2012, 08:58 PM
  #67
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($2.500m) / Michal Handzus ($2.500m) / Tommy Wingels ($1.000m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.735m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.800m) / James Sheppard ($0.761m)
Brandon Mashinter ($0.646m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Nick Petrecki ($0.919m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $66,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,075,417; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $924,583

That looks awful.

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04-23-2012, 08:59 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
And I'm saying that he isn't an improvement over anyone we'd be willing to trade. He's not better than Marleau or Thornton or Couture, Havlat won't be traded, Pavelski is much better value on his contract, and no way Columbus accepts a deal centered around Clowe.
I'd say Nash is a better player than Marleau. Nash may not be as defensively responsible but he brings a more physical edge and dynamic play compared to Marleau. Marleau lacks any sort of creativity whatsoever.

And not considering contract, Nash is better than Couture. When you factor in the fact Couture is making way less money, is younger, and likely hasn't peaked yet Couture becomes the better choice. Skill for skill though, Couture doesn't compare yet.

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04-23-2012, 08:59 PM
  #69
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04-23-2012, 09:04 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
I'd say Nash is a better player than Marleau. Nash may not be as defensively responsible but he brings more physicality and dynamic play than Marleau. Marleau lacks any sort of creativity whatsoever.

And not considering contract, Nash is better than Couture. When you factor in the fact Couture is making way less money, is younger, and likely hasn't peaked yet Couture becomes the better choice. Skill for skill though, Couture doesn't compare yet.
I'd disagree. Nash is more physical and he is more dynamic as a goal scorer. However, it's not just defensively that he's worse. He lacks speed especially compared to Marleau and he lacks any sort of ability to make his teammates better. Now Marleau is not a great play-maker either but he uses his teammates more and a lot better than Nash. He also covers their deficiencies more and is more willing to do things to help the team. Nash is fairly one-dimensional and has the same effort inconsistencies to go along with below average defensive play.

I agree that Nash is better than Couture right now. There is a fairly large gap between the two offensively. Defensively, Couture is better but it's not by such a wide margin. Couture is more defensively-conscious than Nash but he's not that good at it yet. Couture has vastly more potential in terms of improving things that will help the team but Nash will always be a more talented player.

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04-23-2012, 09:08 PM
  #71
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James Sheppard for a 3rd still tickles me.

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04-23-2012, 09:08 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
I'd say Nash is a better player than Marleau. Nash may not be as defensively responsible but he brings a more physical edge and dynamic play compared to Marleau. Marleau lacks any sort of creativity whatsoever.

And not considering contract, Nash is better than Couture. When you factor in the fact Couture is making way less money, is younger, and likely hasn't peaked yet Couture becomes the better choice. Skill for skill though, Couture doesn't compare yet.
Yes, Nash is a whole .25 hits per game more physical than Marleau. Nash may have more "creativity" than Marleau, but Marleau is just as physical, much faster, much better defensively, cheaper, and much more versatile.

And there isn't even a question when it comes to choosing Couture over Nash. He's younger, home-grown, and cheaper. Plus, he out-scored Nash this season, if you've noticed.

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04-23-2012, 09:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yes, Nash is a whole .25 hits per game more physical than Marleau. Nash may have more "creativity" than Marleau, but Marleau is just as physical, much faster, much better defensively, cheaper, and much more versatile.

And there isn't even a question when it comes to choosing Couture over Nash. He's younger, home-grown, and cheaper. Plus, he out-scored Nash this season, if you've noticed.
I knew you would come back stat guns a' blazin'

Stats are an excellent tool for a multitude of reasons. They can point out trends, paint a picture, be relied on heavily in decision making, etc, etc... yet, they don't complete the whole picture. Hence, why they don't hand the President's Trophy winning team the cup each year.

And yes I did know that Couture had more points this year. You wanna look up playoff stats this year and tell me which third and fourth line guys are vastly superior to Marleau according to your reasoning?

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04-23-2012, 09:28 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
I knew you would come back stat guns a' blazin'

Stats are an excellent tool for a multitude of reasons. They can point out trends, paint a picture, be relied on heavily in decision making, etc, etc... yet, they don't complete the whole picture. Hence, why they don't hand the President's Trophy winning team the cup each year.

And yes I did know that Couture had more points this year. You wanna look up playoff stats this year and tell me which third and fourth line guys are vastly superior to Marleau according to your reasoning?
Because clearly a 5 game sample size is more indicative of skill than an 82 game season.

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04-23-2012, 09:29 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Not for his caphit. He's in the Malkin/Stamkos/Crosby/Ovechkin/Staal cap range. Sharks don't need a hit that high on this team. You think we're top heavy now? Trade for Nash. Then we'll be TOP heavy.
well Howson did kind of screw himself at the deadline.. his cards are on the table. I believe he will cave on his asking price. If we have another Heatley situation here (in the value of the deal) and DW can pull it off again, i'm all for it. say a Clowe, Demers, 1st, 2nd, prospect deal.. Then sign Mcleod, Stuart and Woywitka for depth, re-sign Winnik, Gally and Mitchell. Keep in mind this is with the current cap, I dont know how much it will go up.
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Tommy Wingels ($1.000m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.100m) / Daniel Winnik ($2.000m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.800m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.594m) / Cody McLeod ($2.000m)
Brad Winchester ($0.725m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brad Stuart ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Justin Braun ($0.748m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Jeff Woywitka ($0.950m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,406,292; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $4,106,292

Depending on what happens with the cap it could work. That's with the current cap and my estimated UFA salaries. Btw, if Howson does cave, I think the NYR get Nash anyway.

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