HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Marc Staal or Dan Girardi to the Lightning

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-23-2012, 08:48 PM
  #26
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
I always love this argument. Who really cares what position Staal was drafted at ? Tampa Bay will be lucky if their 1st round D pick develops into the next Marc Staal. There may be financial reasons why TB doesn't do this trade (since Staal is a lot closer to a big payday and UFA status than a 18 yr draft pick), but draft position doesn't matter at this point.

Staal is a Top 2 dman signed for another 3 years at $3.975M per. If your idea is to trade Malone +, then that + better be pretty attractive (like TB's top prospect and/or other equivalent picks). Even then, NYR probably says no.
Top 2 D man? On Tampa he would be but he's 4th best on the Rangers. Giradi/McD are your top pair and MDZ is playing better than Staal. You have Erixon getting ready to come up and he has top 4 potential. Your not gonna get the 10th pick but a Malone + Philly 2nd is fair value and close cap wise.

HoseEmDown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 09:01 PM
  #27
PoundCake
Go Bolts!
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
I always love this argument. Who really cares what position Staal was drafted at ? Tampa Bay will be lucky if their 1st round D pick develops into the next Marc Staal. There may be financial reasons why TB doesn't do this trade (since Staal is a lot closer to a big payday and UFA status than a 18 yr draft pick), but draft position doesn't matter at this point.
My issue wasn't that Tampa's 1st for Staal was a bad trade. It was that Malone + Tampa's 1st + a top tier prospect was a bad trade, which it is.

PoundCake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 09:05 PM
  #28
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,274
vCash: 500
Jordan Staal for Marc Staal ?

Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 09:09 PM
  #29
PoundCake
Go Bolts!
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Jordan Staal for Marc Staal ?


Trade em both to Carolina.

Rename the team the Carolina Staalicanes.

(That trade actually makes some sense for the Penguins, but this thread is most certainly NOT about helping out the Pens )

PoundCake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 09:36 PM
  #30
Isles_Guy*
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: long Island
Posts: 6,237
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Isles_Guy*
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
My issue wasn't that Tampa's 1st for Staal was a bad trade. It was that Malone + Tampa's 1st + a top tier prospect was a bad trade, which it is.
I dont know about that, im an Islander fan and If I had my choice of either Staal or Hedman, Id easily take Staal, nothing against Victor but Staal is just a better shut down Defender. I think it would depend on who the prospect is but Malone and A 1st and a prospect is fair in my eyes

Isles_Guy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 09:48 PM
  #31
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
I dont know about that, im an Islander fan and If I had my choice of either Staal or Hedman, Id easily take Staal, nothing against Victor but Staal is just a better shut down Defender. I think it would depend on who the prospect is but Malone and A 1st and a prospect is fair in my eyes
So why don't you trade PAP + 1st + a prospect for him?

HoseEmDown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 09:58 PM
  #32
Isles_Guy*
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: long Island
Posts: 6,237
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Isles_Guy*
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
So why don't you trade PAP + 1st + a prospect for him?
I would but Pap is a ufa and would never sign with the rangers again, id do it though if i could

and Ryan Malone has averaged what 45 points a season in tampa, Pap has averaged 30% more than that on the Isles

Pap is much better than Malone and quite a bit younger too our 1st is better than tampa's by a good margin as well but if I had your 1st and pap i certainly would do it for Staal. he's better than any defender Tampa has by a good margin.


Last edited by Isles_Guy*: 04-23-2012 at 10:08 PM.
Isles_Guy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 10:19 PM
  #33
RyanCallahan24*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
So why don't you trade PAP + 1st + a prospect for him?

Probably cause the Isles and Rangers hate each other. Rangers wouldn't trade Staal to them. And PAP has already been on our team. He would never want to resign with us. Dead end unless they offer Tavares (which they won't).

RyanCallahan24* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 10:23 PM
  #34
Isles_Guy*
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: long Island
Posts: 6,237
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Isles_Guy*
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Probably cause the Isles and Rangers hate each other. Rangers wouldn't trade Staal to them. And PAP has already been on our team. He would never want to resign with us. Dead end unless they offer Tavares (which they won't).
i dont hate the rangers, i want us to be good again because Hockey is better in NY when the Isles Devils and Rangers are all fighting to be best

i hated it when you missed the playoffs 7 straight years with the highest payroll in hockey

Isles_Guy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 10:32 PM
  #35
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Top 2 D man? On Tampa he would be but he's 4th best on the Rangers. Giradi/McD are your top pair and MDZ is playing better than Staal. You have Erixon getting ready to come up and he has top 4 potential. Your not gonna get the 10th pick but a Malone + Philly 2nd is fair value and close cap wise.
Staal was the #1 guy last season by a fair margin. He's a #4 guy here as that speaks for the depth on the backend.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 11:28 PM
  #36
PoundCake
Go Bolts!
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
I dont know about that, im an Islander fan and If I had my choice of either Staal or Hedman, Id easily take Staal, nothing against Victor but Staal is just a better shut down Defender. I think it would depend on who the prospect is but Malone and A 1st and a prospect is fair in my eyes
When he says "top tier prospect" I take that to mean Brett Connolly.

So Ryan Malone + Brett Connolly + 10th overall pick. That's absurd from Tampas perspective. Maybe he is worth that, but if that is the case then I would assume Yzerman would look elsewhere.

Also, Hedman is not as big of a drop off from Staal as you think. He's 4 yrs younger than Staal and instead of playing with Lundqvist/Girardi/Del Zotto/McDonagh he plays with Roloson/Brewer/Lee/Clark. Staal is absolutely better right now, but I would not be surprised at all to see Hedman become the better defenseman.


I'm not trying to undervalue players here, if that's what he's worth to NY so be it.


What's the going rate for a Dan Girardi?

PoundCake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 11:30 PM
  #37
RyanCallahan24*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
When he says "top tier prospect" I take that to mean Brett Connolly.

So Ryan Malone + Brett Connolly + 10th overall pick. That's absurd from Tampas perspective. Maybe he is worth that, but if that is the case then I would assume Yzerman would look elsewhere.

Also, Hedman is not as big of a drop off from Staal as you think. He's 4 yrs younger than Staal and instead of playing with Lundqvist/Girardi/Del Zotto/McDonagh he plays with Roloson/Brewer/Lee/Clark. Staal is absolutely better right now, but I would not be surprised at all to see Hedman become the better defenseman.


I'm not trying to undervalue players here, if that's what he's worth to NY so be it.


What's the going rate for a Dan Girardi?


Even higher. We need more RD's so he's not getting moved. And he just happens to be a beast.

RyanCallahan24* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 05:17 AM
  #38
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,620
vCash: 500
Keep overvaluing your players, it didn't work to Howson in Columbus and it isn't gonna work to SY. Your gonna need Staal when Sather decides to trade MDZ and Erixon + for and more overpriced and overrated Nash.

HoseEmDown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 07:26 AM
  #39
Chalfdiggity3
Registered User
 
Chalfdiggity3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
When he says "top tier prospect" I take that to mean Brett Connolly.

So Ryan Malone + Brett Connolly + 10th overall pick. That's absurd from Tampas perspective. Maybe he is worth that, but if that is the case then I would assume Yzerman would look elsewhere.

Also, Hedman is not as big of a drop off from Staal as you think. He's 4 yrs younger than Staal and instead of playing with Lundqvist/Girardi/Del Zotto/McDonagh he plays with Roloson/Brewer/Lee/Clark. Staal is absolutely better right now, but I would not be surprised at all to see Hedman become the better defenseman.


I'm not trying to undervalue players here, if that's what he's worth to NY so be it.


What's the going rate for a Dan Girardi?
Yes that is around what i would be looking for, for Marc Staal. Everyone is seriously forgetting how dominant of a shutdown defenseman Staal is. I understand the injury and that it takes time to come back from, but the guy is playing better with every game and is getting back into his old form. Next season he will be that player easily again and seems to want to add some offense to his game as well.

Lets not forget that Ryan Malone hasnt played a full NHL season in years and is only a 45-50pt forward just like a Brandon Dubinsky.. Brett Connolly is a great prospect but hasnt proved anything at the NHL level so he is a prospect with question marks and the 10th overall in a draft while a great pick, after the first 3 the prospects are completely up in the air. Just to many question marks in that deal for me to accept it although that would be value wise what would be acceptable for a top dman in the game. His value may be at an all-time low at the moment but that doesnt mean we are going to trade him for low value.

Im not going to get into an arguement about Staal or Hedman. Yes Hedman has the ability to grow and possibly be better than Staal but Hedman is nowhere near the defensive presence that Staal is. I dont really care who Staal plays with, he still anchors whatever defensive unit he is on. He was the one who carried Girardi for the years he was with him. Now he anchors MDZ, Stralman, and or Bickel depending upon whats going on. Its not like Hedman has sh*tty defensive partners to be with. Brewer is a solid stay at home defender and Lee is a good two way defender, while Rolo is not a bad goalie, you just dont have depth on defense or effective two way forwards to help out. But anyway, Staal is completely worth that offer but to us, we want help now and in the future if we give up Staal and Malone is NOT the upgrade we want in our top 6.

I know everyone wants to say he is our 4th dman right now but thats simply not true. If you watch him and his ice time he is #2 or #3 most nights but simply because he has yet to regain his full self. Torts himself has mentioned that no matter what Staal does, he will not be back to himself until he has a full offseason and training camp to get into game shape.

Dan Girardi will cost a premium too. He really came into his own this season and became the anchor to our defensive corps along with Mcdonagh. Plus right now we dont have any other top RHD. You can expect a similiar price.

Chalfdiggity3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 07:54 AM
  #40
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Top 2 D man? On Tampa he would be but he's 4th best on the Rangers. Giradi/McD are your top pair and MDZ is playing better than Staal. You have Erixon getting ready to come up and he has top 4 potential. Your not gonna get the 10th pick but a Malone + Philly 2nd is fair value and close cap wise.
A 32 year old winger and a 2nd is far value for a 25 year old 1st pair dman? I want what you're smoking.

And yes, Staal is a 1st pair dman. He's behind Girardi and McD only because of the concussion. He's playing some of his best hockey of the year right now and will only be better with an offseason to train properly.

We may end up trading one of our dmen this offseason. If it's Staal, you can bet the return will be better than Malone and a 2nd.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 08:27 AM
  #41
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Yes that is around what i would be looking for, for Marc Staal. Everyone is seriously forgetting how dominant of a shutdown defenseman Staal is. I understand the injury and that it takes time to come back from, but the guy is playing better with every game and is getting back into his old form. Next season he will be that player easily again and seems to want to add some offense to his game as well.

Lets not forget that Ryan Malone hasnt played a full NHL season in years and is only a 45-50pt forward just like a Brandon Dubinsky.. Brett Connolly is a great prospect but hasnt proved anything at the NHL level so he is a prospect with question marks and the 10th overall in a draft while a great pick, after the first 3 the prospects are completely up in the air. Just to many question marks in that deal for me to accept it although that would be value wise what would be acceptable for a top dman in the game. His value may be at an all-time low at the moment but that doesnt mean we are going to trade him for low value.

Im not going to get into an arguement about Staal or Hedman. Yes Hedman has the ability to grow and possibly be better than Staal but Hedman is nowhere near the defensive presence that Staal is. I dont really care who Staal plays with, he still anchors whatever defensive unit he is on. He was the one who carried Girardi for the years he was with him. Now he anchors MDZ, Stralman, and or Bickel depending upon whats going on. Its not like Hedman has sh*tty defensive partners to be with. Brewer is a solid stay at home defender and Lee is a good two way defender, while Rolo is not a bad goalie, you just dont have depth on defense or effective two way forwards to help out. But anyway, Staal is completely worth that offer but to us, we want help now and in the future if we give up Staal and Malone is NOT the upgrade we want in our top 6.

I know everyone wants to say he is our 4th dman right now but thats simply not true. If you watch him and his ice time he is #2 or #3 most nights but simply because he has yet to regain his full self. Torts himself has mentioned that no matter what Staal does, he will not be back to himself until he has a full offseason and training camp to get into game shape.

Dan Girardi will cost a premium too. He really came into his own this season and became the anchor to our defensive corps along with Mcdonagh. Plus right now we dont have any other top RHD. You can expect a similiar price.
I shouldn't even respond to this, I like Staal and think he'd be great on TB. You still don't think a top 6 power foward who would be your best LW right now, plus a former #6 pick who would've been top 3 if healthy his draft year plus the 10th this year isn't good enough for your 2nd pair D who's just a younger version of what we have in Brewer. So what is your value of MDZ?

HoseEmDown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 08:56 AM
  #42
Chalfdiggity3
Registered User
 
Chalfdiggity3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
I shouldn't even respond to this, I like Staal and think he'd be great on TB. You still don't think a top 6 power foward who would be your best LW right now, plus a former #6 pick who would've been top 3 if healthy his draft year plus the 10th this year isn't good enough for your 2nd pair D who's just a younger version of what we have in Brewer. So what is your value of MDZ?
Wtf are you talking about! I shouldn't even respond to you. You just seem like a biased troll. First off it seems like you havent read anything in my response. Nowhere did i say the value is off in that trade. But what i dont like about it is Ryan Malone hasnt put in a full season in years and is only a 45pt forward. No offense but idc where Brett Connolly was or would have been drafted, hes a great PROSPECT nothing more right now. Until he proves something in the NHL he is a question mark. Then the 10th overall is again going to be a question mark and is not a sure thing to make the NHL. So honestly no i wouldnt take the deal for Staal. We arent strapped for cap space and will have a ton of space this coming off season. I only stated that it isnt what we would want for Staal because we would want a significant upgrade in the top 6 like a Bobby Ryan for Staal and something else.

Im not even going to respond to your ridiculous comment about Staal there. He is a top dman.

MDZ is a solid defenseman who has come into his own this season. Im honestly not high on him like everyone else is just because he is our only pmd. But he is only 22yo and has grown leaps and bounds throughout the years.

Chalfdiggity3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 09:49 AM
  #43
Rschmitz
Registered User
 
Rschmitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tampa Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 4,560
vCash: 500
Dealing away Malone stopped making sense when Yzerman dealt Ashton for Aulie. Not going to argue value here, its obvious the Rangers are very high on Staal

Rschmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 09:57 AM
  #44
RyanCallahan24*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rschmitz View Post
Dealing away Malone stopped making sense when Yzerman dealt Ashton for Aulie. Not going to argue value here, its obvious the Rangers are very high on Staal
Not just us. We've been talking back and forth with Canucks fans and they would offer: Kesler + Edler for Staal + Stepan and Dubinsky. That's a far greater return than Malone.

RyanCallahan24* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 10:05 AM
  #45
PoundCake
Go Bolts!
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rschmitz View Post
Dealing away Malone stopped making sense when Yzerman dealt Ashton for Aulie.
Not really. Having potentially 9 forwards competing for the top 6 spots is what makes it possible to trade a forward. Ashton was a similar type of player, but I really don't think he would have replaced Malone anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rschmitz View Post
Not going to argue value here, its obvious the Rangers are very high on Staal
Yup, agreed. Looks like the consensus from Rangers fans is that either of the two defensemen mentioned in my OP will cost approx:
Top 6 forward
1st round pick
Top prospect

Edit: That's not to say I think Rangers fans are over valuing Staal. They would be the ones who would most likely know what a player is worth to their team and what their team would want in return. I figured both players I mentioned would fit very well in Tampa, but was unsure of what their value was. Now I know.


Last edited by PoundCake: 04-24-2012 at 10:11 AM.
PoundCake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 10:09 AM
  #46
RyanCallahan24*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Not really. Having potentially 9 forwards competing for the top 6 spots is what makes it possible to trade a forward. Ashton was a similar type of player, but I really don't think he would have replaced Malone anyways.


Yup, agreed. Looks like the consensus from Rangers fans is that either of the two defensemen mentioned in my OP will cost approx:
Top 6 forward
1st round pick
Top prospect
Sorry but you got nothing that fills a need for us. The only interesting players are: Stamkos, St.Louis, Purcell, Hedman in our eyes.

3 of them are basically untouchables. And Purcell isn't even close in terms of value for Marc Staal.


We're not good trading partners. Unless you wanna trade Stamkos for Stepan + Staal + 1st/Dubinsky?

RyanCallahan24* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 10:16 AM
  #47
PoundCake
Go Bolts!
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Sorry but you got nothing that fills a need for us. The only interesting players are: Stamkos, St.Louis, Purcell, Hedman in our eyes.

3 of them are basically untouchables. And Purcell isn't even close in terms of value for Marc Staal.


We're not good trading partners. Unless you wanna trade Stamkos for Stepan + Staal + 1st/Dubinsky?
heheh, I'm gonna go with the "not good trading partners" answer. I understand you were being sarcastic, but if somehow Stammer was on the block, Weber+ would be coming the other way.

PoundCake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 10:28 AM
  #48
RyanCallahan24*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
heheh, I'm gonna go with the "not good trading partners" answer. I understand you were being sarcastic, but if somehow Stammer was on the block, Weber+ would be coming the other way.
Haha yeah I know.


So Lundqvist, Girardi/McD/Staal/Del Zotto + Stepan/Richards + 1st + Kreider. Or whoever u want packaged together. would that not be interesting?

Although that offer would never EVER happen .

Just bored trying to prove a point that if we really wanted we could probably overpay for Stamkos. But after that deal we would be like CBJ haha.

It would take a kings ransom and then some to get Stamkos.


You Tampa fans are some lucky sons of ******* that gets do watch Stamkos that often. What a player.

RyanCallahan24* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 11:11 AM
  #49
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 15,976
vCash: 873
Malone is no better than Brandon Dubinsky and no one in their right minds trades a Marc Staal for a Brandon Dubinsky type player.

Pass.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2012, 11:18 AM
  #50
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 15,976
vCash: 873
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Not just us. We've been talking back and forth with Canucks fans and they would offer: Kesler + Edler for Staal + Stepan and Dubinsky. That's a far greater return than Malone.
I wouldn't touch that deal either.

sorry.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.