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Old
04-25-2012, 01:24 PM
  #76
HockeySensible
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Jagr for one, remember my thread on July 1 "Priority No. 1, sign Jagr" I remember you saying he was done and wouldn't help. Well, he's not done and would have helped. Furthermore, knowing the Kane at C experiment was green lighted already, it makes even more sense. Lastly, it was a 1 year deal so the CBA garbage is not an excuse.

Vokoun would be here for cheap in Emery's spot, same thing, 1 year deal, no excuse.

D I probably wait to do something during the season.
Jagr was never an option for Chicago. We have too many left-handed shots.

Vokoun wanted to be somewhere where he would have been the starter.. that wouldn't have been the case in Chicago last year.

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04-25-2012, 01:37 PM
  #77
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"You have to look at the whole season, not just the ending," Bowman said. "We did have a lot of good things happen as well. We saw some young players emerge. The future is very bright for our organization. Sitting here right now not playing past April is not exciting. ... There is an ability to improve from within, personnel wise. There's the ability for our current players to improve their games as well."
Classic Bowman, "It wasn't me, it wasn't me"

Also, here is a link to the Rogers article, "Who to blame, Q or Bowman"

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blac...ille-or-bowman

There is a poll in there as well. Bowman currently leads 86% to 14%, lol.


Last edited by digdug41982: 04-25-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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04-25-2012, 01:57 PM
  #78
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Jagr will sign with the team that pays him the most. Sad but true

I hope we are the team that offers him most

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04-25-2012, 01:58 PM
  #79
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Jagr will sign with the team that pays him the most. Sad but true

I hope we are the team that offers him most
Agreed. Long live Jagr.

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Old
04-25-2012, 02:02 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Classic Bowman, "It wasn't me, it wasn't me"

Also, here is a link to the Rogers article, "Who to blame, Q or Bowman"

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blac...ille-or-bowman

There is a poll in there as well. Bowman currently leads 86% to 14%, lol.
How did any of that come across as "it wasn't me, it wasn't me"?

This team will continue to get better. There are alot of exciting young players currently on the team and within the organization knocking on the door. We need the specialty teams to improve and Crawford needs a bounce back year.

It's not Bowman's fault the PP/PK were garbage. It's not Bowman's fault Q decided to heavily weigh down Kane by plugging Brunette beside him and it's not Bowman's fault our team runs around with it's head cut off in their own zone.

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04-25-2012, 02:05 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
How did any of that come across as "it wasn't me, it wasn't me"?

This team will continue to get better. There are alot of exciting young players currently on the team and within the organization knocking on the door. We need the specialty teams to improve and Crawford needs a bounce back year.

It's not Bowman's fault the PP/PK were garbage. It's not Bowman's fault Q decided to heavily weigh down Kane by plugging Brunette beside him and it's not Bowman's fault our team runs around with it's head cut off in their own zone.
Agreed, it wasn't Bowman throwing random lines out there in an elimination game. Our stars could create but when they have scrubs like Kruger, Brunette, and Morrison that should be on the 4th line or in the press box on their lines it's not a surprise when they can't finish.

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04-25-2012, 02:08 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
How did any of that come across as "it wasn't me, it wasn't me"?

This team will continue to get better. There are alot of exciting young players currently on the team and within the organization knocking on the door. We need the specialty teams to improve and Crawford needs a bounce back year.

It's not Bowman's fault the PP/PK were garbage. It's not Bowman's fault Q decided to heavily weigh down Kane by plugging Brunette beside him and it's not Bowman's fault our team runs around with it's head cut off in their own zone.
I disagree here. Bowman is Q's boss. If Q is delegating the special teams to his assistants and things aren't working, it is time to bring new assistants in. If Q refuses to replace them, it is up to Bowman to fire Q.

Bowman is also the one who put the defense together. Outside of the top pairing, they were a disaster in their own zone for most of the year. The top pairing even had its moments. I'd say this part is a shared failure between Bowman, Q and the players themselves.

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04-25-2012, 02:14 PM
  #83
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I disagree here. Bowman is Q's boss. If Q is delegating the special teams to his assistants and things aren't working, it is time to bring new assistants in. If Q refuses to replace them, it is up to Bowman to fire Q.

Bowman is also the one who put the defense together. Outside of the top pairing, they were a disaster in their own zone for most of the year. The top pairing even had its moments. I'd say this part is a shared failure between Bowman, Q and the players themselves.
And then who would you have brought in, mid-season, to replace those assistants? Q is responisble for his coaching staff, not Bowman.

Bowman is the one who gave Q the defensive personell.. But I'm not talking about individual performances or talent levels of such players.. but rather the system they play in. All season, even when the Hawks were in 1st place in the leauge.. they lacked structure and purpose in their own zone. It's like the puck was a hot potato and nobody wanted to do anything with it. The wingers and Dmen were almost always too spread out so if the centre was covered, the only option the Dmen had was rimming the puck.. which they did frequently, without support, which lead to breakdowns which lead to goals.

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04-25-2012, 02:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
And then who would you have brought in, mid-season, to replace those assistants? Q is responisble for his coaching staff, not Bowman.

Bowman is the one who gave Q the defensive personell.. But I'm not talking about individual performances or talent levels of such players.. but rather the system they play in. All season, even when the Hawks were in 1st place in the leauge.. they lacked structure and purpose in their own zone. It's like the puck was a hot potato and nobody wanted to do anything with it. The wingers and Dmen were almost always too spread out so if the centre was covered, the only option the Dmen had was rimming the puck.. which they did frequently, without support, which lead to breakdowns which lead to goals.
I agree that Q is responsible for his staff but ultimately Bowman is as well. If I'm not doing my job and my boss won't fire me over it, no doubt that my boss's boss will step in.

I'm just not sure any defensive system would have worked with the personnel on the back end of this team. Overall they werephysically weak, consistently lost board battles and struggled to clear the zone regardless of what the forwards were doing.

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04-25-2012, 02:24 PM
  #85
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you really want to discuss who should have replaced Kitch midseason? really?

just a hint without thinking longer about this topic, Barry Smith

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04-25-2012, 02:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein View Post
I agree that Q is responsible for his staff but ultimately Bowman is as well. If I'm not doing my job and my boss won't fire me over it, no doubt that my boss's boss will step in.

I'm just not sure any defensive system would have worked with the personnel on the back end of this team. Overall they werephysically weak, consistently lost board battles and struggled to clear the zone regardless of what the forwards were doing.
Right, because the defense we had in 2010 and in 2009 were soo much bigger and better under pressure, right?

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04-25-2012, 02:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
you really want to discuss who should have replaced Kitch midseason? really?

just a hint without thinking longer about this topic, Barry Smith
It's alot less messy to do something in the off-season.. nevermind the fact that not many playoff teams try to clean house in the middle of a season.

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04-25-2012, 02:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Right, because the defense we had in 2010 and in 2009 were soo much bigger and better under pressure, right?
I'd say there has been a bit of regression with a few players (Hammer & Keith) and Leddy is not coming close to replacing Campbell, even in the defensive zone.

I'd also take Sopel of '09 & '10 over any of the 3rd pairing guys the Hawks have had over the last 2 years. I can't believe I just typed that out.

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04-25-2012, 02:43 PM
  #89
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many teams do it and have success with it. Blues wanted to make the POs, Kings wanted to make the POs

Remember PIT in 09?

If you have a weakness on the team, fix it. Kitch sucks, should have been replaced long ago

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04-25-2012, 02:49 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein View Post
I'd say there has been a bit of regression with a few players (Hammer & Keith) and Leddy is not coming close to replacing Campbell, even in the defensive zone.

I'd also take Sopel of '09 & '10 over any of the 3rd pairing guys the Hawks have had over the last 2 years. I can't believe I just typed that out.
Really? I'd take Olsen/Montador/Oduya over Hendry/Sopel/Walker any day. The difference between the defense now and the defense in '09 and '10 isn't talent or abiliity.. it's that the entire team lacks structure in their own end.

We routinely have two Dmen hugging each post when a guy is behind the net with the puck. We routinely have our wingers far too spread out from our Dmen. We routinely leave opposing players unchecked and unwatched standing infront of the net. Those aren't reflections of how those players would play naturally.. it's how they're being told to play.

Mike Kitchen comes in/John Torchetti leaves and suddenly Keith and Hammer both go to ****? Not buying it. They obviously haven't played aswell as they did in the Cup year.. but if this team had even an ounce of structure in their own end, I'd wager you'd see a return to form for both players. Keith may never be a Norris Trophy winner again, but there's no reason why he can't still be an elite top-pairing Dman with a team that knows how to support eachother in their own end.

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04-25-2012, 02:57 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Really? I'd take Olsen/Montador/Oduya over Hendry/Sopel/Walker any day. The difference between the defense now and the defense in '09 and '10 isn't talent or abiliity.. it's that the entire team lacks structure in their own end.

We routinely have two Dmen hugging each post when a guy is behind the net with the puck. We routinely have our wingers far too spread out from our Dmen. We routinely leave opposing players unchecked and unwatched standing infront of the net. Those aren't reflections of how those players would play naturally.. it's how they're being told to play.

Mike Kitchen comes in/John Torchetti leaves and suddenly Keith and Hammer both go to ****? Not buying it. They obviously haven't played aswell as they did in the Cup year.. but if this team had even an ounce of structure in their own end, I'd wager you'd see a return to form for both players. Keith may never be a Norris Trophy winner again, but there's no reason why he can't still be an elite top-pairing Dman with a team that knows how to support eachother in their own end.
I think Campbell/Sopel/whatever plug was the 6th D of '09 & '10 was much better than Leddy/Oduya/whatever plug was the 6th D over this year.

Ultimately I hope you're correct and it is as simple as getting rid of Kitchen and getting a competent assistant in there to turn things around.

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04-25-2012, 03:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein View Post
I think Campbell/Sopel/whatever plug was the 6th D of '09 & '10 was much better than Leddy/Oduya/whatever plug was the 6th D over this year.

Ultimately I hope you're correct and it is as simple as getting rid of Kitchen and getting a competent assistant in there to turn things around.
You're crazy. Depthwise, we're far and away a better team with Leddy/Oduya/Montador/Olsen than Campbell/Sopel/Hendry/Boynton.

Campbell is far better than anyone we have now, but Sopel, Hendry and Boynton are not NHL players anymore. If Keith and Seabrook had monster years again like they did in 09-10, we wouldn't even consider this a debate. As it were, they didn't and I'm glad we had those players over the ones of yesteryear because of that.

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04-25-2012, 03:15 PM
  #93
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You're crazy. Depthwise, we're far and away a better team with Leddy/Oduya/Montador/Olsen than Campbell/Sopel/Hendry/Boynton.

Campbell is far better than anyone we have now, but Sopel, Hendry and Boynton are not NHL players anymore. If Keith and Seabrook had monster years again like they did in 09-10, we wouldn't even consider this a debate. As it were, they didn't and I'm glad we had those players over the ones of yesteryear because of that.
I wasn't making a case for keeping/bringing back any of the 3rd pairing guys from 2010, just stating that the 2nd and 3rd pairs from then were much more effective then than they are now.

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04-25-2012, 03:28 PM
  #94
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I wasn't making a case for keeping/bringing back any of the 3rd pairing guys from 2010, just stating that the 2nd and 3rd pairs from then were much more effective then than they are now.
Oops, my mistake. I see that now.

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04-26-2012, 12:36 AM
  #95
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they were more effectiv

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04-26-2012, 07:16 AM
  #96
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Stan should be really kicking himself now. With Pens, Wings, Bruins and Canucks all eliminated in the 1st round, the Cup is up for grabs more than ever. With a few additions, last summer and the acquisition of a goalie before the TD, this team had a real shot to win it again. Woulda coulda shoulda I know .. .

But he who hesitates is lost!

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04-26-2012, 07:46 AM
  #97
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He's a moron, please get rid of him

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04-26-2012, 09:21 AM
  #98
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He's a moron, please get rid of him
Simple and direct, great post.

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04-26-2012, 09:26 AM
  #99
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He's a moron, please get rid of him
Best post in the thread.

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04-26-2012, 11:16 AM
  #100
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I really doubt we'll see any changes in management as long as people keep filling up the UC, despite price increases. As long as the bandwagon keeps buying all the irrelevant sideshow BS McD is peddling, the product on the ice can deteriorate even more before smartening up and stop going to games.
One would have thought that having Dollar Bill six feet under and Pully removed from the organization things would have changed in the front office. But the same incestious and toxic atmosphere seems to have stayed, only with different ego's with McD as the head honcho being a control freak probably meddling in things he shouldn't. That's why we have an accountant running the team who has no knowledge of the game. And seeing Tallon having success in Florida is going to make McD and his regime look like morons.

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