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The Toughness Debate Strikes Back

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04-16-2012, 05:47 PM
  #1
Beendair Donedat
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The Toughness Debate Strikes Back

You guys that hate the toughness - Are you watching the playoffs at all? Do you still feel that toughness and fighting have no role in today's game and/or in the playoffs? Just wondering.

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04-16-2012, 05:54 PM
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charlie
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I must say this has been an unusual start to playoff hockey.
I havent seen this many serious hits and fighting in the playoffs for such awhile.

LOVE IT!!!!

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04-16-2012, 05:56 PM
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Looking forward to see the first guy coming out of the ice on a stretcher with a carreer-ending imjury.... or worse...

That's gonna be darn funny...

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04-16-2012, 05:57 PM
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TheCanasianfrasian
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I think that in some cases the really need to get their **** together. For those who watched yesterday's game in Philly, we can all agree that some plays should have been penalties. I'm thinking about the Neal - Couturier hit. He should have been in the box for playing interference at least! But he wasn't and then he went to hit Giroux behind the head which could have been dangerous play considering Giroux has had concussion problems this year.

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04-16-2012, 05:59 PM
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Alexdaman
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Taking away fighting in hockey is like taking away salt in popcorn... It would just be plain and buttery.


Last edited by Alexdaman: 04-16-2012 at 06:22 PM.
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04-16-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Taking away fighting in hockey is like taking away salt in popcorn... It would just be plain and cheesy.
Elbows ans sticks to the heads are awsome too !!! Aren't they ?



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04-16-2012, 06:01 PM
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Dr Gonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Taking away fighting in hockey is like taking away salt in popcorn... It would just be plain and cheesy.
Wait, in your example do we add cheese?

If so I can do without the salt.

Mmmm....cheesy popcorn.

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04-16-2012, 06:01 PM
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charlie
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Looking forward to see the first guy coming out of the ice on a stretcher with a carreer-ending imjury.... or worse...

That's gonna be darn funny...
You say you are looking forward to that.
Thats not even funny

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04-16-2012, 06:03 PM
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You say you are looking forward to that.
Thats not even funny
Wow... You have not seen the my smilie... ?

Of course not. But we can expect it by the way these series are going. And lots of people - not me- are gonna be thrilled by it.

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04-16-2012, 06:05 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Thing is, it's the stars fighting. If pacioretty wants to fight say, couturier, giroux, crosby, whatever. Sure, these playoffs don't have much to do with goons.

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04-16-2012, 06:06 PM
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charlie
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Wow... You have not seen the my smilie... ?

Of course not. But we can expect it by the way these series are going. And lots of people - not me- are gonna be thrilled by it.
the what?

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04-16-2012, 06:07 PM
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Love the intensity and the bad blood, but Pitt and Philly are taking it a bit too far. Actual hockey is becoming an afterthought in this series.

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04-16-2012, 06:07 PM
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the what?
The icon... This one

Get it now ?

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04-16-2012, 06:08 PM
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charlie
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
The icon... This one

Get it now ?
yeah that is called shakehead.
that is what i did when you said u could hardly wait to see someone on a stretcher......shakehead.

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04-16-2012, 06:09 PM
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Beendair Donedat
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Thing is, it's the stars fighting. If pacioretty wants to fight say, couturier, giroux, crosby, whatever. Sure, these playoffs don't have much to do with goons.
You must have missed Carkner and Neil.

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04-16-2012, 06:10 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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You must have missed Carkner and Neil.
Yes, I like what Carkner did in response to Boyle actions but lets get one thing clear, if Dubinsky didn't jump in and the fight ended, ottawa loses that game.

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04-16-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
You guys that hate the toughness - Are you watching the playoffs at all? Do you still feel that toughness and fighting have no role in today's game and/or in the playoffs? Just wondering.
Toughness and fighting are two very different things. The former is part of the play, the latter stops the play. I have no problem with an occasional fight when tempers flare, but a case like yesterday's Pens/Flyers game was a joke. That wasn't tough -- it was a prolonged babyish tantrum from a team who wasn't getting their way. I understand some people found it entertaining, but to me it was a sideshow to the game and not the game itself -- like cheerleaders, intermission shows or fans fighting in the stands. There was nothing fun about watching James Neal go after Couturier and Giroux with dirty hits, and there was nothing fun about watching the same awkward dance between two guys circling and clutching each other, again and again and again and again.

Boston pulled that crap earlier in the season and I found their brainlessness to be laughable. Very disappointed to see Pittsburgh fall into that.

Would I outlaw fighting? Never. But like everything in life, it shouldn't be taken to extremes.

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04-16-2012, 06:12 PM
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Beendair Donedat
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Why do you say that?

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04-16-2012, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TheCanasianfrasian View Post
I think that in some cases the really need to get their **** together. For those who watched yesterday's game in Philly, we can all agree that some plays should have been penalties. I'm thinking about the Neal - Couturier hit. He should have been in the box for playing interference at least! But he wasn't and then he went to hit Giroux behind the head which could have been dangerous play considering Giroux has had concussion problems this year.
Yeah, I've been loving the physicality and nastiness playoffs in general so far (as well as story lines like Pens and Canucks down 0-3), but that (Neal/Couturier) non-call in particular opened the door to escalated shenanigans. How it wasn't called charging or interference, I have no idea. If that was any other player than Giroux in the other instance, though, I would have thought he was selling it big time there. Reckless intent was certainly evident, but the contact/force just didn't seem to be. But since it was Giroux, we can assume he might be more vulnerable in certain areas/cases to begin with, and I'd have to believe any matters involving supplementary discipline would consider such things.

This post season makes me wish there was no instigator penalty, just to see if the players could get the message across to each other more quickly and effectively than the league is "trying" to via its existing disciplinary system.

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04-16-2012, 06:21 PM
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I think that it goes without saying that I have been a strong advocate for the Canadiens getting bigger, tougher and stronger since I joined here. Fighting is an essential part of hockey and the Martin era will be known for Montreal being one of the softest teams in the NHL that rarely stood up for their teammates.

With all of that said, this year's NHL playoffs are an abomination. Not the fighting part. I love watching a good non-staged, emotion driven scrap.

No, the abomination is the almost complete abandonment of the rule book. We are back to the clutch and grab and obstruct and hook and elbow hockey without penalties being called. The NHL is becoming a joke of a professional sport. NO OTHER sport throws the rule book out the window when playoffs begin. Strikes are still called strikes and outs are still outs in baseball. Football still follows the rules.

But not hockey. Bettman in his ignorance has cheapened the game. (The conspiracy believing part of my brain believes that this will enable his buddy Campbell's boy to win another no rules Stanley Cup by putting up the whistle.) And as a result, we have a free for all NHL playoffs this year.

The fights I dont mind. It is the blatant attempts to injure as a result of no rules is what is bad for this League. Teams are merely compensating for having no rules by gooning it up with cheap shots.

The NHL needs to keep the integrity of the game by calling penalties when penalties occur. (But the physicality and the fighting has been phenomenal)

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04-16-2012, 06:21 PM
  #21
Alexdaman
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Wait, in your example do we add cheese?

If so I can do without the salt.

Mmmm....cheesy popcorn.
youre right buttery does sound good after all, back to edit

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04-16-2012, 06:49 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I think that it goes without saying that I have been a strong advocate for the Canadiens getting bigger, tougher and stronger since I joined here. Fighting is an essential part of hockey and the Martin era will be known for Montreal being one of the softest teams in the NHL that rarely stood up for their teammates.

With all of that said, this year's NHL playoffs are an abomination. Not the fighting part. I love watching a good non-staged, emotion driven scrap.

No, the abomination is the almost complete abandonment of the rule book. We are back to the clutch and grab and obstruct and hook and elbow hockey without penalties being called. The NHL is becoming a joke of a professional sport. NO OTHER sport throws the rule book out the window when playoffs begin. Strikes are still called strikes and outs are still outs in baseball. Football still follows the rules.

But not hockey. Bettman in his ignorance has cheapened the game. (The conspiracy believing part of my brain believes that this will enable his buddy Campbell's boy to win another no rules Stanley Cup by putting up the whistle.) And as a result, we have a free for all NHL playoffs this year.

The fights I dont mind. It is the blatant attempts to injure as a result of no rules is what is bad for this League. Teams are merely compensating for having no rules by gooning it up with cheap shots.

The NHL needs to keep the integrity of the game by calling penalties when penalties occur. (But the physicality and the fighting has been phenomenal)
for the last few seasons it seems it getting worse every PO... as of this year in particular, the biggest issue is that it's clear as day the refs will not call anything unless they really have to, and it's also clear as day Shanny will try the best he can not to suspend anyone...

best example of this (think the pic was here on the Habs board) is Kostystin mocking the Weber headsmashing... I mean, when you willingly mock something like this in public it's because you know full well what's going on...

as for the fighting, the options are pretty obvious.

If you want to get rid of the fights, then you apply the rule book all the time and you give harsh suspensions and fines for cheap shots...

if you let the players play cheap, then you have to get rid of the instigator rule and what not and let the players police themselves...

I dont find much entertainment in hockey fights (gimme boxing or MMA anytyme though), but the awnser to a cheap shot (ala Weber or Hagelin) should never be another cheap shot...

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04-16-2012, 06:52 PM
  #23
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Not only in the toughness departement. We're not in the same league of the flyers or Pittsburgh. No wonder we finished 15th, our team looks like a bunch of princesses and plugs compared to those guys out there.


I love Erik Cole, but if that guy is your top goal scorer, ur team ain't that deep.

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04-16-2012, 07:00 PM
  #24
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Not only in the toughness departement. We're not in the same league of the flyers or Pittsburgh. No wonder we finished 15th, our team looks like a bunch of princesses and plugs compared to those guys out there.


I love Erik Cole, but if that guy is your top goal scorer, ur team ain't that deep.
guys like him and Pacc would have been top 3 forwards on Florida, LA, Nashville, NYR (3rd and 4th), Sens, even on the Flyers they would have been 3rd and 4th forwards in scoring... Coyotes...

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04-16-2012, 07:11 PM
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What a circus the Phi-Pit game was yesterday. It's like watching some "poule pas de tÍte" play hockey. Why caring about defense?... Why they dont use axes instead of stick? That would be so fun!!!

It's hard to believe but Montreal would look better than Pittsburgh on the ice right now...

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