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Canucks Injury Thread - Feb 27 - Bieksa (groin), Kesler (air cast, TBU)

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:53 AM
  #826
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Especially in the last minute when Lapierre wasn't able to get a win which hemmed us in the zone for a bit. Won the second faceoff when he iced the puck, IIRC. If he didn't though, just shows how valuable Manny is to this team still. Just re-sign him to a cheaper contract and people will be fine with him in our lineup night in and night out if he's capable of it.
Not really. Lappy would have taken those draws even if Manny had played. Right side is Lappy, left is Manny.

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02-13-2013, 09:06 AM
  #827
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
And he was exactly as advertised until his eye got blown up.

Sharks: 14 goals, 19 assists
with Canucks until injury: 11 goals, 19 assists

After 7 goals 20 assists (in over 80 games) but offensively he's taking waaaay less shots and chances than before, half the shots last year to the year before with the injury.
Yep. He was an absolute stud before that injury. A steal at 2.5 million. Really just terribly unfortunate all around.

He's still an excellent face-off specialist and a solid 4th line center, but he's probably worth about half his salary at this point, especially with a reduced cap.

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Especially in the last minute when Lapierre wasn't able to get a win which hemmed us in the zone for a bit. Won the second faceoff when he iced the puck, IIRC.
Lappy took two draws and won one of them, which was pretty much the most we could've asked for out of that situation. Koivu is no slouch on faceoffs.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:50 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
Yep. He was an absolute stud before that injury. A steal at 2.5 million. Really just terribly unfortunate all around.

He's still an excellent face-off specialist and a solid 4th line center, but he's probably worth about half his salary at this point, especially with a reduced cap.



Lappy took two draws and won one of them, which was pretty much the most we could've asked for out of that situation. Koivu is no slouch on faceoffs.
He really isn't though. Greg Campbell is a good 4th line center. Maxim Lapierre is a good 4th line center. Winning face-offs and dumping pucks in without zero offence, physical play, or even defensive play at this point, is not solid.

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02-13-2013, 09:51 AM
  #829
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I think a big part of the Malhotra hate is the fact that he's getting paid 2.5 million a year.
Is that really a problem beyond this year? I don't think the cap will really be an issue for us this year, and he's certain to re-sign for less after.

I think a big part of it, too, is people still blaming Manny for the Cup finals loss, but I've always thought that was ridiculous. A different result in Game 7 and his comeback becomes legendary.

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02-13-2013, 12:14 PM
  #830
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I have never heard someone blame Manny for the finals loss. He was not in good form but no one expected him to be. This year Manny has lost a couple faceoffs that resulted in goals. His pk has been poor as well. So even with his high faceoff percentage his results are not there. Lapierre is an ideal 4th line center, physical, turn the play around, and the other team notices him. Manny was a good player but the injury was too much to overcome. He should go on the injury IR. His salary can be used in a Luongo trade taking back salary. Perhaps we can take back a overpaid but still productive player for Lu as well as a pick. More cap space equals more options.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:37 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Is that really a problem beyond this year? I don't think the cap will really be an issue for us this year, and he's certain to re-sign for less after.

I think a big part of it, too, is people still blaming Manny for the Cup finals loss, but I've always thought that was ridiculous. A different result in Game 7 and his comeback becomes legendary.
Wait, what? People blame Manny for the SCF?

That's a first I've heard...

I think everyone can pretty well agree that Manny doesn't perform to the level of his contract anymore, but you raise the good point that it only has a few months left on it. Also, it hasn't hamstrung us to this point from making any moves, so I don't see why it suddenly would (unless there is something else in the works that we are unaware of).

I was actually just thinking the other day that - given Manny's leadership role in the room - it wouldn't bug me to see him re-signed to a sub $1m/year deal after this year. But if it's true that he's being waived, I guess that idea is a no-go.

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02-13-2013, 12:40 PM
  #832
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I think with Manny's connections to the city, being Steve Nash's brother-in-law and whatnot. I think he retires on his own terms and takes up a coaching job with the Canucks.

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02-13-2013, 01:51 PM
  #833
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Wait, what? People blame Manny for the SCF?

That's a first I've heard...

I think everyone can pretty well agree that Manny doesn't perform to the level of his contract anymore, but you raise the good point that it only has a few months left on it. Also, it hasn't hamstrung us to this point from making any moves, so I don't see why it suddenly would (unless there is something else in the works that we are unaware of).

I was actually just thinking the other day that - given Manny's leadership role in the room - it wouldn't bug me to see him re-signed to a sub $1m/year deal after this year. But if it's true that he's being waived, I guess that idea is a no-go.
I seriously hope he isn't, at least not by the Canucks. You can't be sentimental when it comes to wanting to ice the best team possible.

No disrespect to the guy, because he seems like a great dude, but he sucks as a hockey player at this point, even if unfortunate circumstances lead to his predicament. Like someone else said, he really isn't solid at all. He brings no offense, and is only good for a faceoff and quick dump in before changing. That is a far cry from solid. It just feels like a lot of fans are endeared to him, and so they continue to paint him in a positive light.

Gillis should only care about winning, but that's not to say he should leave Malhotra out to dry. If he wants, sure, offer him something within the organization, but keep it away from the ice.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:11 PM
  #834
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I seriously hope he isn't, at least not by the Canucks. You can't be sentimental when it comes to wanting to ice the best team possible.

No disrespect to the guy, because he seems like a great dude, but he sucks as a hockey player at this point, even if unfortunate circumstances lead to his predicament. Like someone else said, he really isn't solid at all. He brings no offense, and is only good for a faceoff and quick dump in before changing. That is a far cry from solid. It just feels like a lot of fans are endeared to him, and so they continue to paint him in a positive light.

Gillis should only care about winning, but that's not to say he should leave Malhotra out to dry. If he wants, sure, offer him something within the organization, but keep it away from the ice.

Manny does not hurt you on a 900k contract playing 4th line center or wing.

His faceoff prowess alone makes him very valuable.

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02-13-2013, 02:14 PM
  #835
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I seriously hope he isn't, at least not by the Canucks. You can't be sentimental when it comes to wanting to ice the best team possible.
.
I've seen this a couple of times, I don,t think it is purely sentimental to say, lets sign the guy to a, say a 900K deal. What he brings for that much dose make us a better team, and dose help us win games. On the other hand, I don't see a problem if people are sentimental for players, That is a huge part of sport. MG can't be sentimental, but fans can, we hope to win the cup, the odds are against us no matter who we ice, why not hope to win it with your favorite player. A fairy tail if you will.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:20 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
I've seen this a couple of times, I don,t think it is purely sentimental to say, lets sign the guy to a, say a 900K deal. What he brings for that much dose make us a better team, and dose help us win games. On the other hand, I don't see a problem if people are sentimental for players, That is a huge part of sport. MG can't be sentimental, but fans can, we hope to win the cup, the odds are against us no matter who we ice, why not hope to win it with your favorite player. A fairy tail if you will.
Put it another way, anyone remember Alex Bolduc as our 4th line C?

Malhotra at $900K is at least better than that.

But I don'tw ant to de-rail the injury thread with that conversation - bottom line, I hope everything's OK with Manny and his family.

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02-13-2013, 02:22 PM
  #837
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If he's still fit to play, then he'll always have somewhere to go based off his faceoff prowess alone.

If he isn't able to play I really want Manny as an assistant or something of that nature.

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02-13-2013, 02:54 PM
  #838
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Manny really does get the benefit of the doubt here. It was a bad accident that really stopped him from being productive. Manny gets paid 2.5 million, Higgins get 1.9m and Hansen gets paid 1.3m.. Manny never was twice the player Hansen is. He filled a role. Now he does not. We talk about this team being too soft. Your 4th line center is a spot in the lineup to be tough to play against. Manny apoligized to the Bruins when he accidently shot a puck into their bench. Manny before the injuty was never productive in the playoffs. He came in overpaid to fill a role. He filled this role for 60 games got hurt than has been paid for 2 plus years being a shadow of his former self. The Canucks do not owe him anything. He should be put on IR if possible.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:55 PM
  #839
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People are so quick to forget the vaunted line of Schaefer-Bolduc-Desbiens that the Canucks started the 2011 season with, and this pile of scrubs: Jonas Andersson, Joel Perrault, Mario Bliznak, Tanner Glass, and Victor Oreskovich. I wouldn't mind Malhotra back at 800k-1M for low minute faceoff duty and some PK time.

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02-13-2013, 03:48 PM
  #840
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Pointing out 4th liners that we not good NHL players does not raise Manny's value in my eyes. We have Lapierre to play on the 4th line as soon as Kesler is back. Manny reputation is based on 60 regular season games where he filled an important role. He gets more credit than is deserved IMO. They won a lot of games after he was hurt both in the regular season and playoffs. Lapierre Torres and Hansen were steller in those playoffs, unfortunate that we did not have another center who could contribute at the time. I did not think about it being the injury thread buy any discussion about Manny is about his injury. I do not think he is a productive player since his injury. When i see him on the pk i hope he wins the faceoff because the team is in trouble if his loses it and is in his own end IMO.


Last edited by Catamarca Livin: 02-13-2013 at 03:53 PM. Reason: wrong thread
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02-13-2013, 05:27 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
Pointing out 4th liners that we not good NHL players does not raise Manny's value in my eyes. We have Lapierre to play on the 4th line as soon as Kesler is back. Manny reputation is based on 60 regular season games where he filled an important role. He gets more credit than is deserved IMO. They won a lot of games after he was hurt both in the regular season and playoffs. Lapierre Torres and Hansen were steller in those playoffs, unfortunate that we did not have another center who could contribute at the time. I did not think about it being the injury thread buy any discussion about Manny is about his injury. I do not think he is a productive player since his injury. When i see him on the pk i hope he wins the faceoff because the team is in trouble if his loses it and is in his own end IMO.
The team was still good enough to win games without him, but the lack of another reliable centre to take defensive zone draws hurt the offence. It was Manny doing what he did that year pre-injury that allowed Kesler to rip it up against lesser competition.

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02-13-2013, 08:58 PM
  #842
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Put it another way, anyone remember Alex Bolduc as our 4th line C?

Malhotra at $900K is at least better than that.

But I don'tw ant to de-rail the injury thread with that conversation - bottom line, I hope everything's OK with Manny and his family.
Not just Bolduc, but look around the league. Boston has better center depth, but amongst most contenders Manny would be interchangeable with whoever they have at the 4th line spot.

Halpern in NYR, Josefsen in NJ, Adams/Jeffrey in Pittsburgh. Look within the division. We have Sgarbossa/Olver, Begin, VandeVelda/Belanger, and Konopka as comparables. Malhotra is better in a 4th line role than any of them!

Sorry to continue to bog down the thread, but the guy really needs his credit. People always crow about what an advantage the Sedins get from their zone starts. While the degree of advantage is debatable, there is no doubt they get some benefit out of it, and Manny is a big part of that. Winning a draw and getting the puck up ice may not show up on the scoreboard, but when done on a regular basis it is vital to a puck possession team.

PS, canucklehead, I believe the sentiment at the time amongst some was that Manny's comeback into the Finals was rushed and a detriment to the team/momentum stopper. Not something I agree with, but something that was bantered around at the time.

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02-13-2013, 09:05 PM
  #843
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Yep. He was an absolute stud before that injury. A steal at 2.5 million. Really just terribly unfortunate all around.

He's still an excellent face-off specialist and a solid 4th line center, but he's probably worth about half his salary at this point, especially with a reduced cap.



Lappy took two draws and won one of them, which was pretty much the most we could've asked for out of that situation. Koivu is no slouch on faceoffs.
Cap doesn't reduce until next year and he's gone anyway. Don't have any clue why you bring that up.

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02-13-2013, 09:08 PM
  #844
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Manny really does get the benefit of the doubt here. It was a bad accident that really stopped him from being productive. Manny gets paid 2.5 million, Higgins get 1.9m and Hansen gets paid 1.3m.. Manny never was twice the player Hansen is. He filled a role. Now he does not. We talk about this team being too soft. Your 4th line center is a spot in the lineup to be tough to play against. Manny apoligized to the Bruins when he accidently shot a puck into their bench. Manny before the injuty was never productive in the playoffs. He came in overpaid to fill a role. He filled this role for 60 games got hurt than has been paid for 2 plus years being a shadow of his former self. The Canucks do not owe him anything. He should be put on IR if possible.
He's clearly not injured. What reason could they have for sticking him on IR?

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02-13-2013, 10:27 PM
  #845
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Manny does not hurt you on a 900k contract playing 4th line center or wing.

His faceoff prowess alone makes him very valuable.
Yep.

Especially given how AV handles his 4th line. That is, they are primarily put out there on defensive zone faceoffs. Manny and Lappy's D-zone start is around 75% this year, Volpatti at 60% and Higgins at 58% are next among regulars. Despite that, they finish a shift in the O-zone ~55% of the time, allowing a more offensive line to start there.

The most critical component of getting the puck out is winning the ****ing faceoff. Which Manny is still top 3 or so in the league at. If he takes 20 shifts a game (18 is where he is now), that's probably an extra 3-4 O zone starts per game for our offensive lines, simply on the back of Malhotra's face-off ability.

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02-14-2013, 01:02 PM
  #846
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I hate to be "that guy", but shouldn't this discussion be in the Armchair GM thread? Getting kinda cluttered for people just looking for injury updates... :/

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02-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #847
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I hate to be "that guy", but shouldn't this discussion be in the Armchair GM thread? Getting kinda cluttered for people just looking for injury updates... :/
You should like this injury update via crazycanuck:

Quote:
Looks like Kesler is making his return tomorrow.

‏@botchford
Not a bad look, sedins-burrows, Higgins-kesler-Kassian, Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen, volpatti-lapierre-weise.

EXCELLENT...
Giggity.

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02-14-2013, 01:32 PM
  #848
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Malholtra is done for the season?

Ben Kuzma tweets.


#Canucks now announce that Manny Malhotra is on injury reserve and is done for the season. Bet on him staying with club in some capacity.

EDIT: Just saw the thread on our board. Another failure as cub reporter.

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:46 PM
  #849
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You should like this injury update via crazycanuck:



Giggity.
As Omar Little would say, "Oh, indeed."

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02-14-2013, 01:56 PM
  #850
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Sounds like there's a good chance, if all goes well, Ryan Kesler plays for VAN tomorrow night vs DAL.

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