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How bad was SY's decision to not resign Smith?

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Old
04-24-2012, 06:27 AM
  #1
HoseEmDown
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How bad was SY's decision to not resign Smith?

He's been one of the biggest studs of the first round. He was playing pretty well when he was here and Roli was 40. Roli is a known for playing well in the playoffs but at his age how could SY think he'd be good for the season plus playoffs. It's easy to make judgement in front of a tv but Smith just looks massive in net and a total beast. Hope this is one of the only mistakes SY makes.

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04-24-2012, 06:42 AM
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Not bad as having the current goalie coach.

You know, Roli struggles are 50% atleast to be fault of the goalie coach methods.
If we had a Sean Burke-like as goalie coach, we could've had another kind of season probably.. Smith improved a lot under his coaching..

So it's not fault of SY keeping Smith, it's the goalie coach choice the bad one

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04-24-2012, 06:43 AM
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LightningStrikes
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As many of us suspect it's probably a mix of confidence (change of scenery / fresh start), coaching (Sean Burke seems to be doing a hell of a job in Phoenix) and Tippett's system. Smitty always had the tools but his injuries and terrible defense in Tampa leave their marks on a goalie.

You could maybe say Yzerman should've questioned Jean's abilities as a goalie coach and motivator with his track record (Ellis, Smith, Roloson all doing worse). But before this season I don't think anybody here questioned the move of letting Smitty go and acquiring a at the time better backup in Garon.


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04-24-2012, 06:48 AM
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It was not a mistake by SY, nobody here believed he could have this level back.

The mistake is to keep the goaltending coach.

Smitty is a good case of what confidence + change of scenary (+ good goaltending coach) can do

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04-24-2012, 07:40 AM
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Man, Frantz Jean ain't leaving here alive.

I thought we said that no one knows what goes on in the dressing room besides the players and coaches?


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04-24-2012, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Man, Frantz Jean ain't leaving here alive.

I thought we said that no one knows what goes on in the dressing room besides the players and coaches?
Generally speaking, that is true. In this case with two different players taking media shots at the coach, I think we can guess that whatever is going on, it's bad.

As far as signing Smitty over Roli. It's important to remember that Smith was offered a contract and turned it down. He got a better deal and the starting job in Phoenix. If SFY had given him the same deal here and turned Roli away he would have been lynched.

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04-24-2012, 09:05 AM
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It was Smith's decision not to sign here, he found a better contract and took it. I've got no problem with that. He's playing behind a better defense and has a better goalie coach. I doubt he has the same success here. It's funny to me that posts and threads like these keep popping up because the majority of the fanbase wanted to get rid of him for a bag of pucks a little over a year ago when he and Ellis were awful.

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04-24-2012, 09:28 AM
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This is simply one of the cases when you cannot look at it from hindsight. Smith played badly most of the year and had a couple of good games in the playoffs. Roloson was mostly good since he got here and was great in the early rounds of the playoffs. The Bruins series could have been foreshadowing the future but then he plays one of his best games in game 7. You would have been dumb not to try with Roloson in net for another year. You can make the age argument but Roloson was old last year too so it makes no sense to trot it out now when just last year everyone was amazed by Roli's play at his age.

It is good to see Smith get over his concussion issues and fix his game with a great goalie coach and play amazingly well within a better defensive system than Tampa. I do think he would still be better than our goalies this year but this context would definitely not be as favorable to Smith as the one in Phoenix.

Now the Downie trade...

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04-24-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by toob View Post
This is simply one of the cases when you cannot look at it from hindsight. Smith played badly most of the year and had a couple of good games in the playoffs. Roloson was mostly good since he got here and was great in the early rounds of the playoffs. The Bruins series could have been foreshadowing the future but then he plays one of his best games in game 7. You would have been dumb not to try with Roloson in net for another year. You can make the age argument but Roloson was old last year too so it makes no sense to trot it out now when just last year everyone was amazed by Roli's play at his age.

It is good to see Smith get over his concussion issues and fix his game with a great goalie coach and play amazingly well within a better defensive system than Tampa. I do think he would still be better than our goalies this year but this context would definitely not be as favorable to Smith as the one in Phoenix.

Now the Downie trade...
SFY has a plan.

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04-24-2012, 11:48 AM
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Rollie said he wanted to stay involved in hockey when he retired as a player. If he retires, would he take the job of goalie coach?

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04-24-2012, 12:07 PM
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I'm sure SFY knows if our goalie coach isn't cutting it, and if so, I'm sure it will be addressed. I hope Rollie continues to be in hockey, he was a great player, but let's face it - it's over for him. We are getting a young goalie this offseason, and no other team is going to want Rollie after the season he had, and being that old.

That being said, it was not The Steve Yzerman's fault for not re-signing Smith. Smith got a better contract for himself. Furthermore, the Coyotes' system works well for him. He said himself, he's not sure if he would have the same success in Tampa Bay. I will admit, after the playoff games I saw Smith play in, I was very hesitant to let him go. He looked great out there. Also, he is one of the best puck-playing goalies in the game right now, if not THE best. But, he didn't show Yz enough to make him keep him. Hence the letting go.

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04-24-2012, 12:21 PM
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I didn't read the thread but here's two facts that en this thread.

Yzerman DID make an offer to Smith to have him resign. Smith decided to go to Phoenix because he was guaranteed to be a starter and here he wasn't. It's not like Yzerman just let him walk.

The second thing is, Smith SUCKED OUT LOUD here for the most part. Anyone saying otherwise is lying to themselves. He had his moments but overall no one here wanted him back at any cost.

Also as a little extra, don't be fooled. Smith has been good and had some great moments, but that PHX defense and system definitely inflate the numbers an he still has his Smith moments.

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04-24-2012, 12:44 PM
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I know Smith didn't look this good with us, and he took a better offer. Only thing is that he's 10 years younger and was playing well late last season. I just think that if he was looking for stability in net a 40 year old isn't it. Smith could've continued to play mediocre for us and we'd be in this same position but we'd at least could make him a back up or throw him in the minors. But it's all in hindsight. So what don't you like about the Downie trade?

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04-24-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoltSTH View Post
Rollie said he wanted to stay involved in hockey when he retired as a player. If he retires, would he take the job of goalie coach?
I would be okay with this. In fact I would be all for this based on the stories of his training.

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04-24-2012, 01:36 PM
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It looked good to start out. Its not SYs fault. Smith sucked when he was here. If anything its on our Goaltenders coach. You hear Roloson say that when he went back to his old ways of doing things he turned his play around. My hunch is the same thing went for Smith. I think we need a new Goaltender coach. It does piss me off about Smith doing well this year.

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04-24-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
As many of us suspect it's probably a mix of confidence (change of scenery / fresh start), coaching (Sean Burke seems to be doing a hell of a job in Phoenix) and Tippett's system. Smitty always had the tools but his injuries and terrible defense in Tampa leave their marks on a goalie.



You could maybe say Yzerman should've questioned Jean's abilities as a goalie coach and motivator with his track record (Ellis, Smith, Roloson all doing worse). But before this season I don't think anybody here questioned the move of letting Smitty go and acquiring a at the time better backup in Garon.
I ABSOLUTELY questioned letting Smitty go, horrible decision. I don't care how many of you guys (not necessarily you OP) say it was the right call. Smitty was supposed to be our starter, got hurt. He was still told he would start when he was better. Then we signed Roli, Smitty got better, and we put Smitty in waivers, then sent him to the Norfolk when no one picked him up. THIS IS IN ALL CAPS CAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW TO BOLD. I ADMIT THAT I DON'T KNOW EVERYHING ABOUT HOW WAIVERS WORK, HOW MINORS WORK, SO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. Ok, but that is not showing Smitty that he was still the starter. Whatever, Roli played great for the end of the season and playoffs, except obviously the games where Smitty had to relieve him. If for no other reason than age, I thought we should have kept Smitty over Roli. That is not enough of a reason, but that should have been at least part of the decision. Anyway, I know nothing of how goalie coaches work, etc. But if so much blame can be placed on our goalie coach, then why would Roli, being the veteran that he is, wait until the final weeks of what is likely his last season to do anything about it? Honest questions I am asking, not trying to start fights or anything. I loved Smitty, and am very happy for him. Would he have gotten us to the playoffs? We'll never know, but not sure he could have done much worse

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04-24-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
I didn't read the thread but here's two facts that en this thread.

Yzerman DID make an offer to Smith to have him resign. Smith decided to go to Phoenix because he was guaranteed to be a starter and here he wasn't. It's not like Yzerman just let him walk.

The second thing is, Smith SUCKED OUT LOUD here for the most part. Anyone saying otherwise is lying to themselves. He had his moments but overall no one here wanted him back at any cost.

Also as a little extra, don't be fooled. Smith has been good and had some great moments, but that PHX defense and system definitely inflate the numbers an he still has his Smith moments.
Agreed. He had plenty of chances to seize the job, we were all hoping he'd be the franchise guy when he came over in the Brad Richards deal, but it just didn't happen.

He started, what, 100+ games for us? That's a pretty good sample size. It just didn't work out here. Happy he's finding success in Phoenix, but that's not the Mike Smith we had. Just like how the Phoenix Bryzgalov isn't the one that Philadelphia ended up with.

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04-24-2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
Agreed. He had plenty of chances to seize the job, we were all hoping he'd be the franchise guy when he came over in the Brad Richards deal, but it just didn't happen.

He started, what, 100+ games for us? That's a pretty good sample size. It just didn't work out here. Happy he's finding success in Phoenix, but that's not the Mike Smith we had. Just like how the Phoenix Bryzgalov isn't the one that Philadelphia ended up with.
Very good point. Could very well be a system thing.

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04-24-2012, 03:50 PM
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I want to clarify that I am not anti-Roli, I have nothing personal against the guy. I respect him.

Since we have DO have the power of hindsight:

Do you think Steve Y regrets the decision?
Would he/you still make the same decision despite Smitty's play this season?
Would he/you take Smitty back as the starter if he/you could?(even I wouldn't want take back, as much as I love the guy, that ship has sailed)
Can anyone admit that (even if you agreed with the decision to let him go) that maybe it was the wrong decision?

I can admit that Smitty may never have another season like this one.
I can admit that his season may not have been as good here as it was in Phoenix.

I still think it would have been better than what we had.

I know none of these questions matter, or change anything. Just wondering

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04-24-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoSTRaMaiR View Post
I want to clarify that I am not anti-Roli, I have nothing personal against the guy. I respect him.

Since we have DO have the power of hindsight:

Do you think Steve Y regrets the decision?
Would he/you still make the same decision despite Smitty's play this season?
Would he/you take Smitty back as the starter if he/you could?(even I wouldn't want take back, as much as I love the guy, that ship has sailed)
Can anyone admit that (even if you agreed with the decision to let him go) that maybe it was the wrong decision?

I can admit that Smitty may never have another season like this one.
I can admit that his season may not have been as good here as it was in Phoenix.

I still think it would have been better than what we had.

I know none of these questions matter, or change anything. Just wondering
All part of Plan Y.

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04-24-2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LoSTRaMaiR View Post
I ABSOLUTELY questioned letting Smitty go, horrible decision. I don't care how many of you guys (not necessarily you OP) say it was the right call. Smitty was supposed to be our starter, got hurt. He was still told he would start when he was better. Then we signed Roli, Smitty got better, and we put Smitty in waivers, then sent him to the Norfolk when no one picked him up. THIS IS IN ALL CAPS CAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW TO BOLD. I ADMIT THAT I DON'T KNOW EVERYHING ABOUT HOW WAIVERS WORK, HOW MINORS WORK, SO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. Ok, but that is not showing Smitty that he was still the starter. Whatever, Roli played great for the end of the season and playoffs, except obviously the games where Smitty had to relieve him. If for no other reason than age, I thought we should have kept Smitty over Roli. That is not enough of a reason, but that should have been at least part of the decision. Anyway, I know nothing of how goalie coaches work, etc. But if so much blame can be placed on our goalie coach, then why would Roli, being the veteran that he is, wait until the final weeks of what is likely his last season to do anything about it? Honest questions I am asking, not trying to start fights or anything. I loved Smitty, and am very happy for him. Would he have gotten us to the playoffs? We'll never know, but not sure he could have done much worse
Just to clear some things up:

Smith was sent to Norfolk for conditioning after he missed 15 games on IR.

He wasn't claimed off waivers because you can't claim a player who's on a 2 week conditioning assignment.

Smith also had enough chances as a starter here but **** the bed several times which gave Yzerman enough reasons to let him walk / not offer as much as Phoenix did.


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04-24-2012, 05:41 PM
  #22
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Mike Smith would suck on Tampa Bay.

Goaltenders are heavily insulated in systems like St. Louis/Phoenix/Nashville/Boston, etc.

You put Mike Smith, Brian Elliot, Halak, Thomas, Rinne etc. on Tampa Bay/Toronto and their numbers are closer to 890 than 940.

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04-24-2012, 05:52 PM
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I would be okay with this. In fact I would be all for this based on the stories of his training.
It was also mentioned he has helped Stamkos out with a number of shooting drills. I would certainly like to see this happen if at all possible - a change in coaching looks like a necessity, at least at the NHL level. Don't know if teams ever have multiple goalie coaches or not, but maybe Jean is better suited working with younger prospects and not with veteran type goalies. Roli just seems like he could be another 'Sean Burke.'

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04-24-2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Just to clear some things up:

Smith was sent to Norfolk for conditioning after he missed 15 games on IR.

He wasn't claimed off waivers because you can't claim a player who's on a 2 week conditioning assignment.

Smith also had enough chances as a starter here but **** the bed several times which gave Yzerman enough reasons to let him walk / not offer as much as Phoenix did.
An honest thank you. Also, does being sent to Norfolk automatically place "player" on waivers? If not auto, then why would we put someone on waivers(assuming we planned to keep them) AGAIN, I really don't understand how all this works, so thanks

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04-24-2012, 09:17 PM
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As stated before Yzerman tried to resign Smith. He had our offer but went with the offer from Phoenix instead. It was Smittys decision, not Yzermans. But I still don't see how going back a year ago anyone could say he made the wrong move by not trying to offer him more cash or offering him more starts or something else to persuade him as a guy who needed to stay here. Looking back since the time Smitty has been here, he's never been able to hold down the job for long. After the Richards trade, Ramo looked better than him to finish out the season. The next year he looked as great as he has been this season but got injuried and missed the 2nd half of the season with a concussion and then trying to play through it. When it was him and Niitty, he could never run with it, and Niitty was the guy we relied on down the stretch. When it was him and Ellis, Yzerman had to bring in Roloson. Consistency and injuries has plagued him the 4 seasons he was here. He's had a lot of time to show he deserved to be a NHL starter. He's never played this many games or put up numbers like this in his nhl career. Hindsight is a great thing but this isn't on Yzerman.

For Frantz Jean, I'm still not sure what to make of him. Smitty and Ellis never did well from the start. And there's Roli who also didn't have a good season. But I don't want to blame all of Roli's troubles on him and when I look at Garon his S% and GGA are almost identical to what he's done the 2 previous seasons, so he didn't really hurt Garon. I know Frantz also works with the Admirals on occasion but I'm not sure how often, and Tic and Janus have been fine too.

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