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Mtl/Van and Mtl/Edm

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Old
04-25-2012, 06:09 AM
  #1
MajorPain
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Mtl/Van and Mtl/Edm

To Montreal: Roberto Loungo + Van 3rd 2013

To Vancouver: Mtl 2nd 2012 + prospect Danny Kristo

followed by...

To Montreal: Edm 1st 2012 + MPS + Edm 2nd 2013

To Edmonton: Carey Price + Jarred Tinordi + Mtl 3rd 2013

Long story short: Vancouver gets rid of Loungo and his contract without taking any salary back. Lots have argued in the past months about Loungo's value, some based on his stats who felt people were underestimating his value...and some others based on contract and mediocre performances, who felt he could only be traded for a cap dump.

I for my part am in the middle as I feel Loungo is worth something more than a cap dump...but his contract is terrible in terms of lenght, he just lost his #1 job in the current playoffs (well that's my opinion) and therefore his value has reached an all time low.

So Vancouver ends up getting a 2nd rounder, a mid level prospect and most importantly, they get rid of the bad contract without taking another one in return...and aren't taking any salary back.

Edmonton gets what they're missing, a top, young starting goaltender and a potential top 4 Dmen. Price would make the Oilers a contender right away IMO as he's all ready a proven starter and he's in the same range of age as Edmonton's core.

Habs end up replacing Price with Luongo...which is kind of a gamble...but it allows them to boots their offense alot by getting MPS as well as the chance to draft both Yakupov and Galchenyuk. That would give them a top 9 including Pacioretty, Eller, Gionta, Cole, Bourque, Desharnais, Plekanec, Yakupov, Galchenyuk and MPS.

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Old
04-25-2012, 06:16 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorPain View Post
To Montreal: Roberto Loungo + Van 3rd 2013

To Vancouver: Mtl 2nd 2012 + prospect Danny Kristo

followed by...

To Montreal: Edm 1st 2012 + MPS + Edm 2nd 2013

To Edmonton: Carey Price + Jarred Tinordi + Mtl 3rd 2013

Long story short: Vancouver gets rid of Loungo and his contract without taking any salary back. Lots have argued in the past months about Loungo's value, some based on his stats who felt people were underestimating his value...and some others based on contract and mediocre performances, who felt he could only be traded for a cap dump.

I for my part am in the middle as I feel Loungo is worth something more than a cap dump...but his contract is terrible in terms of lenght, he just lost his #1 job in the current playoffs (well that's my opinion) and therefore his value has reached an all time low.

So Vancouver ends up getting a 2nd rounder, a mid level prospect and most importantly, they get rid of the bad contract without taking another one in return...and aren't taking any salary back.

Edmonton gets what they're missing, a top, young starting goaltender and a potential top 4 Dmen. Price would make the Oilers a contender right away IMO as he's all ready a proven starter and he's in the same range of age as Edmonton's core.

Habs end up replacing Price with Luongo...which is kind of a gamble...but it allows them to boots their offense alot by getting MPS as well as the chance to draft both Yakupov and Galchenyuk. That would give them a top 9 including Pacioretty, Eller, Gionta, Cole, Bourque, Desharnais, Plekanec, Yakupov, Galchenyuk and MPS.
take out the 3rd rounder for MLT and change the 3rd rounder to a 2nd rounder for VAN and maybe I think about it

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04-25-2012, 07:08 AM
  #3
Brian28
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Originally Posted by heathfilms View Post
take out the 3rd rounder for MLT and change the 3rd rounder to a 2nd rounder for VAN and maybe I think about it
While Tinordi is a good prospect he isn't really what Edmonton needs. We have lots of potential top 4 guys and more than enough current top 4 guys. What we need is a legit number 1 D more than goaltending. Dubnyks numbers weren't great but weren't bad either...he did outperform Bulin in the last 1/2 year.

Price is not worth Yakupov + MPS + 2nd 2013 and Tinordi does not make up the difference for us.

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Old
04-25-2012, 07:15 AM
  #4
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Its really complicated and would never happen but it isnt a half bad proposal as far as value goes.

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Old
04-25-2012, 07:29 AM
  #5
Eskimo44
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This is awful for Edmonton. I do think Price is better but his numbers were very comparable to Dubnyk (and it's not like Edmonton had good defense), and iirc he's all of one year older. The difference between Price and Dubnyk doesn't come anywhere close to justifying Yakupov being moved. Even if Price is so much better than Dubnyk (i don't buy it), Price himself isn't worth Yakupov, and the rest of the package is pretty much a wash.

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04-25-2012, 07:33 AM
  #6
FiveForDrawingBlood
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Montreal would need bigger return on Price to warrant downgrading to Luongo. Price is arguably best goalie in league considering he is on a bad team. With even average team in front of him he is 25 year old Brodeur or Roy. You just can't get those guys


Last edited by FiveForDrawingBlood: 04-25-2012 at 07:48 AM.
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Old
04-25-2012, 07:46 AM
  #7
Blind Gardien
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Getting the draft picks isn't much of an enticement from the Habs' POV. I'd much rather keep Price and not get saddled with the Luongo controversy. I don't think the EDM 1st would carry anything like the value to me that it seems to be carrying in this proposal. Pass from the Habs POV.

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:02 AM
  #8
Prajna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
This is awful for Edmonton. I do think Price is better but his numbers were very comparable to Dubnyk (and it's not like Edmonton had good defense), and iirc he's all of one year older. The difference between Price and Dubnyk doesn't come anywhere close to justifying Yakupov being moved. Even if Price is so much better than Dubnyk (i don't buy it), Price himself isn't worth Yakupov, and the rest of the package is pretty much a wash.


Price is FAR better than Dubnyk. Price has the most value in this trade easily.

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:09 AM
  #9
TOGuy14
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As an arbitrary third party observer of this deal, I would do the trade if I was Edmonton, but I would try and get Gorges in the deal instead of Tinordi.

Price is a young top 5 goalie in the league, and while yakupov could be a star winger, Edmonton already has those. The need defence and someone in the net who can stop pucks.

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:10 AM
  #10
Eskimo44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
Montreal would need bigger return on Price to warrant downgrading to Luongo. Price is arguably best goalie in league considering he is on a bad team. With even average team in front of him he is 25 year old Brodeur or Roy. You just can't get those guys
Price isn't even close to the best goalie in the league. I understand sv% is heavily affected by team but the disparity is too great. All of,

Thomas
Lundquvist
Quick
Miller
Rinne
Backstrom
Kippursoff
Lehtonen
Halak

are almost unarguably better. Price's contemporaries are guys like,

Hiller
Ward
Fleury
Luongo
Schneider
Rask
Varlamov
Howard
Dubnyk
Nabokov
Pavlec
Vokoun
Anderson
Smith
Niemi

He may be arguably amoungst the upper echelon of this group (sv% doesn't prove it though), but he hasn't done anything yet that would make one consider him elite (and no getting voted into the allstar game in montreal doesn't count, ****ing komisarek got voted in too). Price still has significant potential, but his numbers are not surpassing other young starters by much if at all.

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:12 AM
  #11
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by Prajna View Post
Price is FAR better than Dubnyk. Price has the most value in this trade easily.
If Price is so much better why doesn't it reflect in his numbers? I think he's better too but Dubnyk looks like he's going to be a very solid starter too and has developed consistently. Dubnyk believe it or not is also a goaltender with a 1st round pedigree, and he too is young. And no Price is not "easily" more valuable than Yakupov, he's equal at the very very most (and i think thats stretching it by quite a bit).

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:14 AM
  #12
Greg Schuler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
This is awful for Edmonton. I do think Price is better but his numbers were very comparable to Dubnyk (and it's not like Edmonton had good defense), and iirc he's all of one year older. The difference between Price and Dubnyk doesn't come anywhere close to justifying Yakupov being moved. Even if Price is so much better than Dubnyk (i don't buy it), Price himself isn't worth Yakupov, and the rest of the package is pretty much a wash.
Price not be worthy of acquiring Yakupov, debatable, but please, Dubynk is no where close to Price as a goaltender, certainly not statistically. For being one year older, Price has played 2.5 times more games than Dubynk at a higher level (and yes, on a better team) and is a better goalie.

There are many reasons not to like the proposed trade, but saying Dubnyk is comparable to Price is laughable.

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:18 AM
  #13
Psycho Papa Joe
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I don't think Luongo could handle the heat being a hometown boy in Montreal. I don't doubt his talent, but I do doubt his mental toughness. I think the pressure would simply be to great in Montreal.

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04-25-2012, 08:22 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
If Price is so much better why doesn't it reflect in his numbers? I think he's better too but Dubnyk looks like he's going to be a very solid starter too and has developed consistently. Dubnyk believe it or not is also a goaltender with a 1st round pedigree, and he too is young. And no Price is not "easily" more valuable than Yakupov, he's equal at the very very most (and i think thats stretching it by quite a bit).
As a fan of both teams, you're out to lunch if you think Dubnyk is anywhere in the same league as Price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
He may be arguably amoungst the upper echelon of this group (sv% doesn't prove it though), but he hasn't done anything yet that would make one consider him elite (and no getting voted into the allstar game in montreal doesn't count, ****ing komisarek got voted in too). Price still has significant potential, but his numbers are not surpassing other young starters by much if at all.
He's played in three straight all-star games.


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 04-25-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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Old
04-25-2012, 08:28 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
If Price is so much better why doesn't it reflect in his numbers? I think he's better too but Dubnyk looks like he's going to be a very solid starter too and has developed consistently. Dubnyk believe it or not is also a goaltender with a 1st round pedigree, and he too is young. And no Price is not "easily" more valuable than Yakupov, he's equal at the very very most (and i think thats stretching it by quite a bit).
the only thing stretched by "quite a bit" here is saying Dubnyk is comparable to Price. Good luck with that one.



As to the OP. too many big names moving. But overall, I've seen much worse.

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04-25-2012, 08:41 AM
  #16
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Huge no from Montreal. Not replacing Price with Luongo. Lou's contract is a non-starter.

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:42 AM
  #17
Eskimo44
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Price not be worthy of acquiring Yakupov, debatable, but please, Dubynk is no where close to Price as a goaltender, certainly not statistically. For being one year older, Price has played 2.5 times more games than Dubynk at a higher level (and yes, on a better team) and is a better goalie.

There are many reasons not to like the proposed trade, but saying Dubnyk is comparable to Price is laughable.
Why does it matter that he's played more? Is Tim Thomas a lesser goalie than Khabibulin? Lets deal with current events here. The past two years "statistically" Price has an edge of .923 vs. .916, and this year a whopping edge of .916 to .914. Over that time Edmonton has allowed 74 more goals, despite the two having somewhat comprable sv%, so this (along with shot totals, the backups numbers, and team success) leads me to believe Edmonton has had a much worse defense. Even if we ignore that, .920 compared to .915 over the past two years doesn't seem to be as great of a difference as you're making it out to be, especially if we do consider the circumstances. So i'm curious what stat shows Price is so much better as you claimed there to be, because it isn't the most used one in sv%.

Again Price is better, but the difference between the two doesn't come anywhere close to Yakupov. Out of a scale of 1-10, the deal is basically Yakupov (10/9) for Price (9/8), even though we have Dubnyk (7/8) in net already. That doesn't add up for Edmonton.

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04-25-2012, 08:43 AM
  #18
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Horrible deal for Edmonton.

Regardless of who posters think Dubnyk is comparable to, Edmonton doesn't need goaltending.

Yakupov is clearly the best player in the upcoming draft. From Jason Gregor's interview with Kevin Lowe on Oilersnation, "I would be shocked if anyone would step up and offer what we feel would be good enough to have us not take that player."

Pajaarvi, Yakupov, and a 2nd for a goaltender they don't need, Tinordi, and a 3rd? Easy pass.

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:47 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
the only thing stretched by "quite a bit" here is saying Dubnyk is comparable to Price. Good luck with that one.



As to the OP. too many big names moving. But overall, I've seen much worse.
I said they were comprable? What i thought i said was that Price was better, but not by so much that we need to improve upon a solid young starter at the expense of a franchise forward. I did say their numbers are comprable, but thats a fact not an opinion. Price is not yet an elite goalie, if he was so much better there would be some evidence to support it. Please refrain from twisting my words, when i respond to you i will be sure to only attribute things you said to you, not things that may superficially resemble your comments.


Last edited by Eskimo44: 04-25-2012 at 08:55 AM.
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Old
04-25-2012, 08:49 AM
  #20
Frank Drebin
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wtf...

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:52 AM
  #21
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I said they were comprable? What i thought i said was that Price was better, but not by so much that we need to improve upon a solid young starter at the expense of a franchise forward. Price is not yet an elite goalie, if he was so much better there would be some evidence to support it.
Using your argument against Price, I can easily state that Yakupov is not a franchise forward.

You can't use two standards. If Yakupov, who has yet to play any kind of pro hockey is a franchise forward, how is Price, who is a proven quality NHL starter, not even equal to him?

I can understand you want to keep and develop the 1st overall pick and let it ride with DD, hoping he can meet his full potential, but your argument is full of holes and double standards.

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04-25-2012, 08:56 AM
  #22
Frank Drebin
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Why don't we leave the Habs out of it. I'm sure Edmonton can offer something similar to Kristo +2nd, (say MPS + Edm 2nd 2013??) which gives them a nice upgrade in goal with Luongo, at a much lower cost than Nail.

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04-25-2012, 09:03 AM
  #23
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Lets not forget that Price's contract is also due and I can't see him resigning for less than 6mil a year. I am one of those fans that thinks spending that much money on your goalie is going to hurt your team.

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04-25-2012, 09:04 AM
  #24
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
As a fan of both teams, you're out to lunch if you think Dubnyk is anywhere in the same league as Price.



He's played in three straight all-star games.
Actually it's only been two. And the biggest reason he was there this season was because the NHL has a preference of having all NHL teams represented, also the goaltending in the East appears weaker than the West. Thomas also did not attend the game this year, and Miller took nearly all season to recover from a concussion after a great start. Price may be attending All star games but with exception to last season none of his apperances have been overly deserving.

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Old
04-25-2012, 09:09 AM
  #25
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Actually it's only been two. And the biggest reason he was there this season was because the NHL has a preference of having all NHL teams represented, also the goaltending in the East appears weaker than the West. Thomas also did not attend the game this year, and Miller took nearly all season to recover from a concussion after a great start. Price may be attending All star games but with exception to last season none of his apperances have been overly deserving.
how many has Dubnyk had?

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