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Old
04-26-2012, 12:03 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
One thing I cringe at when talking about players is what they were on pace for. Pace doesn't matter. Results do. At one point, he was on pace for 40+ goals. At one point, Matt Cooke was on pace for 164 goals. The fact remains, Staal has never scored more than 29 goals. He's never reached more than 50 points. He's never won a Selke. He's never been to the All-Star game.

Kesler has scored 41 goals. He's reached 75 points. He's won the Selke. He's getting paid 30 million dollars over 6 years. He's gone to the All-Star game. He could've gotten much more in the open market, but he knew he needed to take a discount to spread the wealth, and he's the second line center for the team thats won the Presidents Trophy the past two seasons. Staal is our third line center. It would be beyond foolish to sign Staal to anything more than 5 per.

In a year that's unlike others, Staal got top six duties because our first line center was down for most of the season. Unless Staal moves to the wing, chances are, his stats aren't going to increase. I'm not saying he isn't worth top dollars in this league, because there are certainly a lot of GM's that would overpay to get Staal. What I'm talking about is his worth to this team. If he's playing 3rd line center, we shouldn't pay him more than 4.5-5 per. Not if we want to continue to watch Crosby play with Dupuis' and Sullivans.

I'm in the boat that'd like to see more creative talent in the top six. If that means Staal has to go, it sucks, but business decisions often come down to the decisions you wish you didn't have to make.
I never said that we SHOULD sign Staal for more than $5M. I'm telling you that he WILL get more money than that.

Also Kesler signed his contract 2 seasons ago. Contract prices inflate over time. That's painfully obvious. Plus on the open market you can throw true value out the window. You only need to look at how much Paul Martin is making for proof. Staal will easily get $6M if he test FA.

It's completely up to him if he's fine with making less than his market value to play for this team. That doesn't change the fact that he can command that kind of salary. So you're right in a sense about his worth to the team.

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04-26-2012, 12:39 PM
  #52
Karnage420
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staal is worth 6.5m

he'll prob get 7m as a UFA

we will resign him for 6m or 6.5m.

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04-26-2012, 12:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by WVU71 View Post
Staal, Letang, Niskanen and a 3rd for first overall ........

Ill be reasonable staal lovejoy martin 1st round pick for ur 1st overall and a 7th round pick

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04-26-2012, 01:52 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
staal is worth 6.5m

he'll prob get 7m as a UFA

we will resign him for 6m or 6.5m.
That's a lot of money and I'm not sure I'd be ok with that if he's still being used as the 3rd line center. If he's making that much money he has to be put in the top 6.

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04-26-2012, 02:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
That's a lot of money and I'm not sure I'd be ok with that if he's still being used as the 3rd line center. If he's making that much money he has to be put in the top 6.
Staal put up 59 points in 68 games this season, only 8 of those points came on the power play. I feel that Staal needs to be in the top 6 and on the power play. He'd be great in front of the net, better than Kunitz. He deserves an increased role and we'll lose him if he doesn't get one. W

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04-26-2012, 02:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 66877168 View Post
Staal put up 59 points in 68 games this season, only 8 of those points came on the power play. I feel that Staal needs to be in the top 6 and on the power play. He'd be great in front of the net, better than Kunitz. He deserves an increased role and we'll lose him if he doesn't get one. W
If he's moved into the top 6 on a permanent basis, then it makes more sense to have him on the PP because we won't need to put his line out there once it's over.

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04-26-2012, 02:55 PM
  #57
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I doubt money will be an issue. I mean, yeah, if Staal wants top money. I think it's more about the role which Staal wants to play.

Anyway... I don't get some people saying, let's re-sign Staal for 5.5-6M and put him in the top-6..

So you want to put 6M center on wing AND pay for the real 3rd line center ??? Or even put the best center in this season on wing?

REALLY ???

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04-26-2012, 03:45 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
staal is worth 6.5m

he'll prob get 7m as a UFA

we will resign him for 6m or 6.5m.
lol this is crazy talk dude.

Quote:
1. Welsh, Jeremy » F CAR 23 1 $17,945,000
2. Ovechkin, Alex » F WAS 26 13 $9,538,462
3. Malkin, Evgeni » F PIT 25 5 $8,700,000
4. Crosby, Sidney » F PIT 24 5 $8,700,000
5. Staal, Eric » F CAR 27 7 $8,250,000
6. Nash, Rick » F CLB 27 8 $7,800,000
7. Lecavalier, Vincent » F TBL 32 11 $7,727,273
8. Heatley, Dany » F MIN 31 6 $7,500,000
9. Gaborik, Marian » F NYR 30 5 $7,500,000
10. Stamkos, Steven » F TBL 22 5 $7,500,000
11. Gomez, Scott » F MTL 32 7 $7,357,143
12. Vanek, Thomas » F BUF 28 7 $7,142,857
13. Spezza, Jason » F OTT 28 7 $7,000,000
14. Iginla, Jarome » F CGY 34 5 $7,000,000
15. Thornton, Joe » F SAN 32 3 $7,000,000
16. Marleau, Patrick » F SAN 32 4 $6,900,000
17. Kopitar, Anze » F LAK 24 7 $6,800,000
18. Koivu, Mikko » F MIN 29 7 $6,750,000
19. Datsyuk, Pavel » F DET 33 7 $6,700,000
20. Backstrom, Nicklas » F WAS 24 10 $6,700,000
21. Semin, Alexander » F WAS 28 1 $6,700,000
22. Richards, Brad » F NYR 31 9 $6,666,667
23. Kovalchuk, Ilya » F NJD 29 15 $6,666,667
24. Stastny, Paul » F COL 26 5 $6,600,000
25. Briere, Danny » F PHI 34 8 $6,500,000
26. Kane, Patrick » F CHI 23 5 $6,300,000
27. Toews, Jonathan » F CHI 23 5 $6,300,000
28. Smyth, Ryan » F EDM 36 5 $6,250,000
29. Sedin, Henrik » F VAN 31 5 $6,100,000
30. Sedin, Daniel » F VAN 31 5 $6,100,000
31. Zetterberg, Henrik » F DET 31 12 $6,083,333
32. Elias, Patrik » F NJD 36 7 $6,000,000
33. Cammalleri, Mike » F CGY 29 5 $6,000,000
34. Parise, Zach » F NJD 27 1 $6,000,00
Thats a list of the 6 mill + cap hits in the league, taken from Cap Geek (Who the hell is Jeremy Welsh??????) There are some very bad contracts in there, but excluding those, because we know Shero isn't in the business of giving out bad contracts, Staal does not fit into that group. He is good, but some of you are getting carried away here. There is zero chance Staal is worth 7.5 million dollars and there is like a 10% chance we sign him for 6, that being he's moved to a top six winger. If Shero gives him anything more than 5 to stay at third line center, I'm hoping for a new GM.

I'm not saying the 3C model can't work, because it has, but it hasn't done anything since then. Teams have gotten better and they've learned how to contain Geno and Sid in the playoffs since then. It might be time to explore a new model, and if it's not, it's definitely not time to sign Staal to 5+ to play 3C.

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04-26-2012, 04:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
lol this is crazy talk dude.

(Who the hell is Jeremy Welsh??????)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=626167
The Hurricanes announced that the team inked the Union College forward to an entry-level contract. The one-year deal will pay Welsh $832,500 on the NHL level and $70,000 on the AHL level, along with a signing bonus of $92,500.

Must be a glitch

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04-26-2012, 06:33 PM
  #60
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If the Oilers would want to do Fleury for Yakupov, I'd listen. Maybe Fleury needs a change of scenery.

Then, we would need 2 goalies so it's not an easy thing to do. But we have 3 defensemen we could trade in Martin, Michalek and Orpik. Maybe there's a team that would be willing to deal a goalie for a defenseman? Minnesota maybe? Just for fun, Zbynek Michalek for Matt Hackett?

The second goalie could be acquired on the market. There are a lot available this summer.

Maybe we could wind up with Hackett and Harding.

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04-26-2012, 07:36 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
If the Oilers would want to do Fleury for Yakupov, I'd listen. Maybe Fleury needs a change of scenery.

Then, we would need 2 goalies so it's not an easy thing to do. But we have 3 defensemen we could trade in Martin, Michalek and Orpik. Maybe there's a team that would be willing to deal a goalie for a defenseman? Minnesota maybe? Just for fun, Zbynek Michalek for Matt Hackett?

The second goalie could be acquired on the market. There are a lot available this summer.

Maybe we could wind up with Hackett and Harding.
If Shero pulled off Flower to the oilers for the first, i would let shero **** my wife. EDM would have to be pretty dumb to do that.

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04-26-2012, 07:46 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
If the Oilers would want to do Fleury for Yakupov, I'd listen. Maybe Fleury needs a change of scenery.

Then, we would need 2 goalies so it's not an easy thing to do. But we have 3 defensemen we could trade in Martin, Michalek and Orpik. Maybe there's a team that would be willing to deal a goalie for a defenseman? Minnesota maybe? Just for fun, Zbynek Michalek for Matt Hackett?

The second goalie could be acquired on the market. There are a lot available this summer.

Maybe we could wind up with Hackett and Harding.
Luongo is available !












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04-26-2012, 09:34 PM
  #63
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Man. People have no faith in Fleury being able to bounce back and play at a high level for us again. I think all he needs is one fewer Paul Martin (replaced by one mean SOB hanging around his crease) and one new goalie coach and he'll make Yakupov (who is by no means a sure bet the way guys like Taylor Hall or other recent 1sts were - based on what I'm hearing) look like not such a great idea.

I mean... let's put it this way: if I'm trading Fleury, it's part of a package deal and Yakupov is not the centerpiece of the deal. He or whoever we'd pick (top NA player?) would be the secondary piece.

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04-27-2012, 01:46 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BRINGITHH8771 View Post
Ill be reasonable staal lovejoy martin 1st round pick for ur 1st overall and a 7th round pick
Staal is worth more than the #1 Overall Pick.

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04-27-2012, 02:17 PM
  #65
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Man. People have no faith in Fleury being able to bounce back and play at a high level for us again. I think all he needs is one fewer Paul Martin (replaced by one mean SOB hanging around his crease) and one new goalie coach and he'll make Yakupov (who is by no means a sure bet the way guys like Taylor Hall or other recent 1sts were - based on what I'm hearing) look like not such a great idea.

I mean... let's put it this way: if I'm trading Fleury, it's part of a package deal and Yakupov is not the centerpiece of the deal. He or whoever we'd pick (top NA player?) would be the secondary piece.
Well, I get that he's a Cup winner. But even the year we won the Cup he was inconsistent. Inconsistency pours through Fleury's veins. I doubt that'll ever change. He can be REALLY REALLY good, but he can also be just as bad.

I would think the team in front of him would prefer to have a less talented goalie behind them, if it meant they KNEW more or less what they were getting night after night.

I'm not saying we HAVE to trade Fleury. But something needs to change. He needs to at the very least be pushed harder for his job. We can't keep putting all of our goalie eggs in the same basket, and repeatedly fail in the playoffs.

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04-28-2012, 05:43 AM
  #66
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Totally agree with not trading Staal, he is so much more versatile than even Sid and Geno. I definitely would not trade anyone for a draft pick...we need a big defenseman to help now not 2 yrs from now. People are not thinking clearly we will never be able to keep both Sid and Geno and with Geno playoff lack of scoring and taking stupid penalties he needs to be considered. He will probably leave in 2 yrs anyway then both Staal and Geno will be gone. I know it is crazy but he should be traded.

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04-28-2012, 05:53 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by hockeyisgood View Post
Staal is worth more than the #1 Overall Pick.
I disagree. I think that pick is valued as a franchise player and Staal isn't.

I can't see Shero adding onto Staal to get much of anybody though. I don't think he would add to Staal to get the 1st overall. I think the other team will either trade a great asset like Bobby Ryan straight across or they will be the ones adding. Pens would probably get a package of really good assets like the Richards/Carter trades last summer in the latter scenario.

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04-28-2012, 10:47 AM
  #68
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The reason it worked for the Flyers is because Holmgren finds young talent all over the place, and Laviolette is the master of all masters of incorporating them into a fairly simplistic yet extremely player-friendly and successful system.

We share none of those qualities. We trade Staal and we will get burned. We won't acquire a Voracek who will just blend in no matter the role. We won't acquire a Couturier, who will make a direct impact at age 18-19. We won't net a future superstar in Schenn.

If it's not proven talent (Kunitz, Neal), we will fail (Tangradi).

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04-28-2012, 03:05 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by cp87 View Post
Totally agree with not trading Staal, he is so much more versatile than even Sid and Geno. I definitely would not trade anyone for a draft pick...we need a big defenseman to help now not 2 yrs from now. People are not thinking clearly we will never be able to keep both Sid and Geno and with Geno playoff lack of scoring and taking stupid penalties he needs to be considered. He will probably leave in 2 yrs anyway then both Staal and Geno will be gone. I know it is crazy but he should be traded.


Yea, Geno really has problems scoring the playoffs. You're spot on with your assessments.

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04-28-2012, 03:29 PM
  #70
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i love how people make stuff up about Geno not wanting to be a penguin. Stop creating things in your head.

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04-28-2012, 03:36 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
lol this is crazy talk dude.



Thats a list of the 6 mill + cap hits in the league, taken from Cap Geek (Who the hell is Jeremy Welsh??????) There are some very bad contracts in there, but excluding those, because we know Shero isn't in the business of giving out bad contracts, Staal does not fit into that group. He is good, but some of you are getting carried away here. There is zero chance Staal is worth 7.5 million dollars and there is like a 10% chance we sign him for 6, that being he's moved to a top six winger. If Shero gives him anything more than 5 to stay at third line center, I'm hoping for a new GM.

I'm not saying the 3C model can't work, because it has, but it hasn't done anything since then. Teams have gotten better and they've learned how to contain Geno and Sid in the playoffs since then. It might be time to explore a new model, and if it's not, it's definitely not time to sign Staal to 5+ to play 3C.
a lot of those contracts were signed years and years ago, when the cap was much much lower.

in terms of cap and cap percentage 6m+ is not out of the realm of possibility. and you can be sure his agent will be pushing for 7m.

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04-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
a lot of those contracts were signed years and years ago, when the cap was much much lower.

in terms of cap and cap percentage 6m+ is not out of the realm of possibility. and you can be sure his agent will be pushing for 7m.
He's definitely not worth 7. 6 yes but only assuming that he didn't reach his full potential yet.

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04-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by hockeyisgood View Post
Staal is worth more than the #1 Overall Pick.
yeah but he only has 1 year left in his contract and after that we get nothing for him and no promise that whoever we trade him to will be the first overall.. i just reread what i said butin that trade it as also a salary dump... but if staal really love Pittsburgh which i hope he does then he can just come right back after next year plus we will have this guy signed for several yrs

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04-29-2012, 01:02 PM
  #74
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Jeremy Welsh is on so much because after a certain point in the season the cap is worked out on the full season by salary per day. I think.

[ ( base salary * days remaining in season / days in season ) + total signing and performance bonuses ] * days in season / days remaining in season

[ (832,500 * 1 / 185) + 92,500] * 185 / 1 = $17,945,000

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04-30-2012, 10:05 AM
  #75
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I say trade up lower and get Filip Forsberg...

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