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Jordan Staal II

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Old
04-29-2012, 11:57 PM
  #326
Ragamuffin Gunner
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You Pens fans are out of you ****ing mind if you think you can get James Neal for Alex Goligoski. A 3rd paring Dman wil NEVER get you a top 6 winger like Neal, EVER. Think more like Gogo+++.

When will you learn Pens fans?

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04-30-2012, 12:11 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
You Pens fans are out of you ****ing mind if you think you can get James Neal for Alex Goligoski. A 3rd paring Dman wil NEVER get you a top 6 winger like Neal, EVER. Think more like Gogo+++.

When will you learn Pens fans?

lol. Pretty much.

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Old
04-30-2012, 03:28 AM
  #328
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Staal + Letang for Kesler + Edler

otherwise, not really interested.
Lol no.

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04-30-2012, 03:44 AM
  #329
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No thanks to Staal.

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04-30-2012, 05:25 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Grags2Kass View Post
No thank you, you don't just toss off Kesler after one bad season when his value is at it's lowest...! Kesler was coming off surgery this year and had no training or preparation, His injury is supposed to take 16+ months to heal. For a player that relies on his speed that extra step that he loses is hugeeee, On top of that he received a bad shoulder injury in February or March that might also require a surgery this offseason.
Hm, so that could be the reason for his summer salts

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Old
04-30-2012, 09:12 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Kesler, with the career high of 41 goals and 75 points.
Pavelski, with the career high of 31 goals and 66 points.
Jordan Staal, with the career high of 29 goals and 50 points.

That's not even close to the right comparison. Let alone saying he could be like his brother, who's got a 45 goal, 100 point season to his name.
Wow, this is horrendous premise.....

Kesler had 37 points at the age of 23.
Pavelski had 40 points at the age of 23.

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04-30-2012, 09:21 AM
  #332
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He's been great for us this year. Really stepped up with the injuries we had. Is ideal for that #4 position. Will likely slot in as the #5, however can easily play 20+ minutes a night and move up as high as #3 if need be.

I'd be really hesitant to move a 25 yr old who's really improved this year, and can play minutes. We may have to move him depending on what we do on the blueline this year.. but I'd really rather not unless we have to.

If Niskanen is the + needed to move Staal for Kesler I wouldn't consider it. I'm not even sure getting a forward (winger) for Sid is even the return I'd be looking for if Staal is moved.
You wouldn't consider it eh? It's not very often a player like Kesler becomes available. As others have said, he's basically a do it all sort of player. Think of him as a better version of Staal that can play wing and is much faster. Play him on Crosby's wing, if one of your centermen go down with an injury move him back to center and I doubt you skip a beat.

If you're sold on Kesler for Staal, and the + is a #4-5 defenseman that you likely have to move anyways, I don't think that should ever be a deal breaker. The Pens get the best player in the deal by a fair margin.

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04-30-2012, 09:26 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
Wow, this is horrendous premise.....

Kesler had 37 points at the age of 23.
Pavelski had 40 points at the age of 23.
So your premise is...
At the age of 23 (in his second season), Pavelski had 40 points.
At the age of 23 (in his third season), Kesler had 37 points.
At the age of 23 (in his sixth season), Staal has 50 points.

Therefore, Staal must be better?

How about this?:

After 6 seasons in the league, Staal has a career high of 50 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Pavelski has a career high of 66 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Kesler has a career high of 75 points.

Age is great. But what do you believe Jordan Staal's going to learn in the following 4 years that he hasn't in the previous 6 that'll give him a 25-point boost?

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Old
04-30-2012, 09:37 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
You wouldn't consider it eh? It's not very often a player like Kesler becomes available. As others have said, he's basically a do it all sort of player. Think of him as a better version of Staal that can play wing and is much faster. Play him on Crosby's wing, if one of your centermen go down with an injury move him back to center and I doubt you skip a beat.

If you're sold on Kesler for Staal, and the + is a #4-5 defenseman that you likely have to move anyways, I don't think that should ever be a deal breaker. The Pens get the best player in the deal by a fair margin.
I guess it depends on how you value Kesler/Staal. Do I think Kesler is the better player? Not really. I think he's more versatile than Staal (ability to play wing), and has a nice contract. However Staal's potential/ceiling is a lot higher than Keslers. Staal's still only 23 and already one of the better #2C's in the league. Don't go quote his 41g season. That's in part a product of potting 15 on the PP while getting 4-6 times the PP icetime that Staal gets. Has Kesler put up better stats than Staal? Absolutely. However that's because Staal doesn't get those same opportunities due to being behind Crosby and Malkin on the depth chart.

Do I think Kesler is a bad player? No. I think they're very similar, with Kesler being able to play wing, while Staal being younger and having a higher ceiling. Would I trade them strait up?

From the Pens POV, ONLY if I was going to use Kesler as a winger. If I had to add Niskanen, I wouldn't consider it. If they're not equal value (or damn close to it) the add isn't Niskanen.
From the Nucks POV, perhaps. You're losing a known asset and bringing in something that has the potential to be very very good, who's skill as a #2 shutdown C isn't that far from what you gave up. Van only does it they're looking for size and feel that Staal's ceiling long term is a lot higher than Keslers.

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04-30-2012, 09:52 AM
  #335
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No thanks to Staal.

No thanks to Kesler.

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04-30-2012, 10:03 AM
  #336
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Staal is one the most underated players on these boards. Every GM would love to have him.

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04-30-2012, 10:14 AM
  #337
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It's still all kinds of a lateral move and hinges on the ideas that Van would want a shake up for the sake of it, while Pens are unable to sign Staal to a cap-friendly deal comparable to Kesler's. If Van wants to keep the core intact and Pens definitely want to keep the core and can manage this under the cap, there really is not point to this deal at all.

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Old
04-30-2012, 10:52 AM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So your premise is...
At the age of 23 (in his second season), Pavelski had 40 points.
At the age of 23 (in his third season), Kesler had 37 points.
At the age of 23 (in his sixth season), Staal has 50 points.

Therefore, Staal must be better?

How about this?:

After 6 seasons in the league, Staal has a career high of 50 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Pavelski has a career high of 66 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Kesler has a career high of 75 points.

Age is great. But what do you believe Jordan Staal's going to learn in the following 4 years that he hasn't in the previous 6 that'll give him a 25-point boost?
The potential is there. He needs a bigger role offensively, better linemates and PP time. Believe it or not, he's still a kid that lacks the confidence to fully realize his potential playing behind the two best players in the world.

You'd know this if you watched him as much as Pens fans.

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04-30-2012, 11:20 AM
  #339
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The potential is there. He needs a bigger role offensively, better linemates and PP time. Believe it or not, he's still a kid that lacks the confidence to fully realize his potential playing behind the two best players in the world.
This. He'll never truly reach his offensive potential if he never gets a top 6 role. While he gets top 6 icetime, he's always in a checking role with checking/3rd line wingers. What PP time he does get is with those 3rd liners for 25/30 seconds on the back half of the PP.

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04-30-2012, 11:26 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
You Pens fans are out of you ****ing mind if you think you can get James Neal for Alex Goligoski. A 3rd paring Dman wil NEVER get you a top 6 winger like Neal, EVER. Think more like Gogo+++.

When will you learn Pens fans?
HF Gold... Lol

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Old
04-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
SAge is great. But what do you believe Jordan Staal's going to learn in the following 4 years that he hasn't in the previous 6 that'll give him a 25-point boost?
Are you suggesting that a 23 year-old payer has peaked?

Forget the fact his offensive pace has improved steadily these past two seasons with increased offensive responsibility...

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04-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #342
laufer72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So your premise is...
At the age of 23 (in his second season), Pavelski had 40 points.
At the age of 23 (in his third season), Kesler had 37 points.
At the age of 23 (in his sixth season), Staal has 50 points.

Therefore, Staal must be better?

How about this?:

After 6 seasons in the league, Staal has a career high of 50 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Pavelski has a career high of 66 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Kesler has a career high of 75 points.

Age is great. But what do you believe Jordan Staal's going to learn in the following 4 years that he hasn't in the previous 6 that'll give him a 25-point boost?
1. Where did I say "Staal is better"??

2. No......just no...

Best seasons "after 6 in NHL":

Pavelski - 0.89 PPG
Kesler - 0.89 PPG
Staal - 0.80 PPG

Yet again, Staal has the advantage in years, and there's NO 25 point difference.

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04-30-2012, 11:32 AM
  #343
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No thanks to Kesler.
Kesler can play on the wing with Sid or Geno, and take over as 2nd C when Sid and Geno are playing on the same line. Pens would love to have Kesler. Question is, would the Nucks like to have Staal?

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04-30-2012, 11:34 AM
  #344
laufer72
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Originally Posted by umad View Post
Kesler can play on the wing with Sid or Geno, and take over as 2nd C when Sid and Geno are playing on the same line. Pens would love to have Kesler. Question is, would the Nucks like to have Staal?
I don't understand your "Pens love to have Kesler" argument. What is Kesler's season high on the wing?

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04-30-2012, 11:38 AM
  #345
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I don't understand your "Pens love to have Kesler" argument. What is Kesler's season high on the wing?
59 points on the wing with Mats back in 08-09.

Has only gotten better since...well until this year, but I am sure he will backfire next season.

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04-30-2012, 11:38 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
It's still all kinds of a lateral move and hinges on the ideas that Van would want a shake up for the sake of it, while Pens are unable to sign Staal to a cap-friendly deal comparable to Kesler's. If Van wants to keep the core intact and Pens definitely want to keep the core and can manage this under the cap, there really is not point to this deal at all.
You may only have 6 posts on this board but you're 100% right on this one.

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04-30-2012, 11:39 AM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So your premise is...
At the age of 23 (in his second season), Pavelski had 40 points.
At the age of 23 (in his third season), Kesler had 37 points.
At the age of 23 (in his sixth season), Staal has 50 points.

Therefore, Staal must be better?

How about this?:

After 6 seasons in the league, Staal has a career high of 50 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Pavelski has a career high of 66 points.
After 6 seasons in the league, Kesler has a career high of 75 points.

Age is great. But what do you believe Jordan Staal's going to learn in the following 4 years that he hasn't in the previous 6 that'll give him a 25-point boost?
Staal is on par/better than Kesler and Pavelski when it comes to non-powerplay ice time in terms of production. Give Staal more powerplay time and he will likely get those number of points.

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04-30-2012, 11:40 AM
  #348
laufer72
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Originally Posted by umad View Post
59 points on the wing with Mats back in 08-09.

Has only gotten better since...well until this year, but I am sure he will backfire next season.
I see no reason why wouldn't Staal be as successful on the wing. He did score 29 goals his rookie year playing on Malkin's wing. I see no point in trading Staal for Kesler from Pens POV.

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04-30-2012, 11:41 AM
  #349
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You may only have 6 posts on this board but you're 100% right on this one.
If Staal is to leave Pens, it wouldn't be because of money, but because of his role on the team.

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04-30-2012, 11:43 AM
  #350
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I see no reason why wouldn't Staal be as successful on the wing. He did score 29 goals his rookie year playing on Malkin's wing. I see no point in trading Staal for Kesler from Pens POV.
agreed, if we were moving Staal to Vancouver, I'd be hoping Edler was coming back

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