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Jordan Staal II

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04-26-2012, 04:02 PM
  #151
MastuhNinks
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Jordan Staal could easily put up 70+ points between Lupul and Kessel, make the line a lot better defensively and greatly improve our PK. I don't understand Leafs fans that aren't excited at the prospect of having him on our team. All that and his (relatively, compared to other center options) cheap price make him near perfect for the Leafs.

We can keep waiting for a Ryan Getzlaf or Eric Staal to fall into our laps but that really hasn't been working, why not go for the next best thing in the little brother?

EDIT: And ANY trade that involves Kessel going to the Pens for Staal is ridiculous. The entire point of wanting a guy like Staal is to have a good center for our star winger to play with. As fun as it would be to watch Kessel and Crosby/Malkin on a line, I would rather the Leafs keep him.

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04-26-2012, 04:03 PM
  #152
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Looking over Minny's roster, the only roster player that I'd be interested in is Seto. Minny would have to add, however other than Granlund, Coyle, Brodin I don't know enough about their prospects to judge what is fair.

But his return will have zero to do with him only having 1 yr left on his contract. Whatever team is trading for him will only be doing so if they believe they can extend him.

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04-26-2012, 04:05 PM
  #153
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I'd love Clutterbuck on this team as an addin for Staal.

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04-26-2012, 04:12 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
EDIT: And ANY trade that involves Kessel going to the Pens for Staal is ridiculous. The entire point of wanting a guy like Staal is to have a good center for our star winger to play with. As fun as it would be to watch Kessel and Crosby/Malkin on a line, I would rather the Leafs keep him.
I dont see Gal or Grig at 5. I think best situation is a trade with Kessel for Staal then draft Forsberg/move up for Yakupov.

Of course other teams need to agree to the trades still

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04-26-2012, 04:25 PM
  #155
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I know they wouldn't. If Staal is going to Toronto that 5th overall is not included due to Pittsburgh wanting players. My offer of Kessel + Gunnarsson for Staal + Harrington still stands
Staal would be headed to Toronto to be Kessel's C, not dealt for Kessel. If Pens can have the Leafs first in the deal, then i dunno why they'd not want to do it. I'd want Schenn+Kulemin+5th for Staal+Orpik+1st or something. Pens get Schenn+Kulemin ontop of a franchise player.

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04-26-2012, 04:34 PM
  #156
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Oh boy, we've been down this road before. MIN and PIT don't seem to be ideal trading partners. The Penguins want too much and the Wild aren't willing to give up what it would take to get Staal. Besides, the only reason I could see us going after Staal in the first place is if we decided to permanently move Granlund to wing instead of keeping him at center. In that scenario:

Heatley - Koivu - Latandresse
Granlund - Staal - Seto/Coyle (depending on how the trade goes down)

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04-26-2012, 04:35 PM
  #157
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we don't even particularly need Staal. Not that he wouldn't be great and we could squeeze him in but...Koivu, Granlund, Brodziak already at center. If we're going to be pitching major assets I'd rather go after a #1 or #2 defenseman or another winger.
Even accomplished centers like Crosby and Skinner started on the wing. Young players need to learn both ends of the NHL game before playing center. Put the offensive stud, Grandlund, on the wing with countryman Koivu.

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04-26-2012, 04:40 PM
  #158
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Not sure this would work.

Trade Setoguchi, and the Wild are short on wingers. He had a down year, but that was more a product of the team than him. Play him on the 2nd line next year with Granlund, and the Wild will have some solid secondary scoring.

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04-26-2012, 05:19 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
This whole "1 year left on his contract" argument doesn't really matter, he's still a 23 year old two way center who knows what it takes to play playoff hockey, is great both offensively and defensively and has been a Selke finalist.

Him being signed for only 1 more season doesn't make him less valuable and a team who wants Staal will probably be a team who is going to give him an extension anyways, it's not going to be "one year of Staal" it's going to be "Let's acquire this great player and give him a contract extension"

Pens aren't going to ask for something small just because he has one year left, he's a franchise player and Shero wants to keep him in Pittsburgh.
It does matter because as much as Minny would want to resign him if he doesn't want to resign then he won't of course that lowers his trade value.

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04-26-2012, 05:42 PM
  #160
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It does matter because as much as Minny would want to resign him if he doesn't want to resign then he won't of course that lowers his trade value.
And that's something the GM finds out before doing the trade. A GM won't give up assets for someone who's only going to be there for 1 year. Just as Shero doesn't move him for a crap return. Look at what you got for Burns... who only had 1 yr left. That 1 yr doesn't mean very much.

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04-26-2012, 05:44 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
And that's something the GM finds out before doing the trade. A GM won't give up assets for someone who's only going to be there for 1 year. Just as Shero doesn't move him for a crap return. Look at what you got for Burns... who only had 1 yr left. That 1 yr doesn't mean very much.
I am not saying Staal has zero value but he isn't as valuable as if he was signed for 5+ years.

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04-26-2012, 05:48 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Even accomplished centers like Crosby and Skinner started on the wing. Young players need to learn both ends of the NHL game before playing center. Put the offensive stud, Grandlund, on the wing with countryman Koivu.
They had Granlund at wing his first pro year in Finland and moved him to center as soon as they could. He's going to be a center. We drafted him to be a center because we have historically been weak at that position. He may play wing next year but it won't be a permanent position.

and we're not scuttling our future for one year of Staal. You don't have a prayer of getting this return for Staal unless it's from a team who has been washing out of the playoffs for the last few years and needs a guy like Staal to get them over the hump. Wild haven't even seen the hump yet!

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04-26-2012, 05:58 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I am not saying Staal has zero value but he isn't as valuable as if he was signed for 5+ years.
Look at what you got for Burns. Whoever wants Staal will pay a similar price.

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04-26-2012, 06:13 PM
  #164
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Look at what you got for Burns. Whoever wants Staal will pay a similar price.
SJ overpaid I doubt Minny does the same.

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04-26-2012, 06:29 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
SJ overpaid I doubt Minny does the same.
to be completely fair that trade was considered win-win at the time it was made and is only now less equitable because SJ didn't get what they wanted out of it (finals appearance at least) and the Wild did (significant boost to prospect pool and scoring depth up front).

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04-26-2012, 06:42 PM
  #166
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to be completely fair that trade was considered win-win at the time it was made and is only now less equitable because SJ didn't get what they wanted out of it (finals appearance at least) and the Wild did (significant boost to prospect pool and scoring depth up front).
I thought SJ overpaid to be honest, and I am not saying Staal is worth a second I think he is worth a 2013 first and good prospect or Seto but not this years first and Coyle.

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04-26-2012, 06:52 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I thought SJ overpaid to be honest, and I am not saying Staal is worth a second I think he is worth a 2013 first and good prospect or Seto but not this years first and Coyle.
I doubt anyone gives up a top 10 this year and another decent piece for him. And to be honest I don't think anyone is really looking for a trade that's completely based on futures.

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04-26-2012, 06:54 PM
  #168
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I doubt anyone gives up a top 10 this year and another decent piece for him. And to be honest I don't think anyone is really looking for a trade that's completely based on futures.
I was talking about suggestions like this

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdsmack267 View Post
Seto, first rounder, wing prospect (Coyle maybe)
Staal is a great player but a top prospect + Seto and a first is to much for only 1 year guaranteed of Staal.

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04-26-2012, 07:15 PM
  #169
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Carter wasn't signed for only 1 more year not comparable.
No, he was signed for 11years... even worse!

Plus, Staal is valuable player than Carter. Not by much, but he is.

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04-26-2012, 07:16 PM
  #170
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No, he was signed for 11years... even worse!

Plus, Staal is valuable player than Carter. Not by much, but he is.
How is having a player for 11 years worse than 1 year? I would say they are worth the same to a team with the same contract.

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04-26-2012, 07:24 PM
  #171
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I dont see Gal or Grig at 5. I think best situation is a trade with Kessel for Staal then draft Forsberg/move up for Yakupov.

Of course other teams need to agree to the trades still
You may not like it, but I think the price tag Ray Shero would set for Burke if he wants Staal is Kulemin, Schenn, and the 5th overall. It's a huge payment, but there are a few things to consider:

1. It's not as if Burke wouldn't have a chance to talk to Staal's agent before making a deal to gauge Staal's contract demands and his willingness to resign in Toronto. So, I think this whole 'only one year' thing is a bit of a red herring. Any team that trades for Staal will do so with the anticipation that it will pay him up in the 6.0-6.5M range per season on his next deal and the knowledge that he will resign with them.

2. Does that deal make the Leafs better or worse next season? Long term, it might be considered to reek of desperation. But, what about next year? Does Kulemin bounce back? Does Schenn bounce back? What impact, if any, would the 5th overall have? IMO, it's the type of deal you likely lose in 3-5 years but win at a minimum in the first two. As I said, paying that type of price kind of reeks of desperation, but it's not as if Burke isn't desperate, no?

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04-26-2012, 07:27 PM
  #172
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How is having a player for 11 years worse than 1 year? I would say they are worth the same to a team with the same contract.
1. Philadelphia wanted to rid themselves of Carter and Richards. Pittsburgh does not want to rid itself of Staal. That does make a difference.

2. Any team that trades for Staal, as I just said, would almost assuredly have the chance to speak with his agent before consummating a deal to confirm Staal's demands and his willingness to sign a new deal with that organization. Personally, I think he's looking for something in the 6.0-6.5M range, depending upon term, AND to play a more significant offensive role than he plays in Pittsburgh. Any team that trades for him implicitly will be confirming its willingness to meet those salary and on ice demands.

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04-26-2012, 07:30 PM
  #173
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to be completely fair that trade was considered win-win at the time it was made and is only now less equitable because SJ didn't get what they wanted out of it (finals appearance at least) and the Wild did (significant boost to prospect pool and scoring depth up front).
And to be completely fair, I think Shero is prepared, if push comes to shove, to pay Staal 6.5M per season. At the same time, he'll listen to offers. But, he's not interested in a 'fair' offer or a 'win-win' deal. The only think that will interest him is an offer he can't refuse (as in a slightly better return than Richards or Carter). Someone is willing to pay that price, and Shero might deal. Too much, you say . . . then Shero will just keep Staal.

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04-26-2012, 07:30 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. Philadelphia wanted to rid themselves of Carter and Richards. Pittsburgh does not want to rid itself of Staal. That does make a difference.

2. Any team that trades for Staal, as I just said, would almost assuredly have the chance to speak with his agent before consummating a deal to confirm Staal's demands and his willingness to sign a new deal with that organization. Personally, I think he's looking for something in the 6.0-6.5M range, depending upon term, AND to play a more significant offensive role than he plays in Pittsburgh. Any team that trades for him implicitly will be confirming its willingness to meet those salary and on ice demands.
This Staal is the odd man out then pitts will be looking to trade him. I agree with what your saying but Carter's contract is better in imo if Staal gets 6+ a year.

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04-26-2012, 07:44 PM
  #175
rynryn
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And to be completely fair, I think Shero is prepared, if push comes to shove, to pay Staal 6.5M per season. At the same time, he'll listen to offers. But, he's not interested in a 'fair' offer or a 'win-win' deal. The only think that will interest him is an offer he can't refuse (as in a slightly better return than Richards or Carter). Someone is willing to pay that price, and Shero might deal. Too much, you say . . . then Shero will just keep Staal.
i have no argument with any of that and I made no statements regarding Staals value other than the Wild wouldn't be interested in paying the same kind of price SJ payed for Burns. You sound kind of mad. You might get what you're asking which would be an overpayment at face value but not to the team getting him if they ended up progressing further into the postseason. I'm not all that interested in him--certainly not enough to offer the kind of package that we got for Burns.

edit: van fans seem to be mad at Kesler lately...maybe make some sort of swap with them? I don't see Kesler having any problem with playing a third line role.

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