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Jordan Staal II

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04-26-2012, 07:51 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by PenguinTommy View Post
No, he was signed for 11years... even worse!

Plus, Staal is valuable player than Carter. Not by much, but he is.
Carter is a 40 goal scorer with a cap hit of 5.5 ish iirc.

Isn't there a rumour that Staal wants 6.5.. ?

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04-26-2012, 07:52 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
This Staal is the odd man out then pitts will be looking to trade him. I agree with what your saying but Carter's contract is better in imo if Staal gets 6+ a year.
Well, sure, in terms of the dollars, it would be in the context you give. I just don't think that Pittsburgh will be looking to trade Staal in the way that Philly was looking to trade Richards and Carter, and I think that's part of the reason why Staal, if traded, will garner a bigger return.

Now, if Staal's agent tells Shero he's testing free agency no matter what or that he'd only sign now for 7M, then all bets are off. I just don't see that being the case, which is why I don't see the same motivation for Shero to trade Staal as Homgren had to trade Richards and Carter.

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04-26-2012, 07:53 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Carter is a 40 goal scorer with a cap hit of 5.5 ish iirc.

Isn't there a rumour that Staal wants 6.5.. ?
A Pittsburgh reporter suggested that Staal will be looking for a 7 year, 43M deal. It may be true, it may be BS . . . both are equally plausible.

That said, if Staal hit the open market, don't you think some desperate team or teams would bid north of 6.5M. So, the suggestion that his agent will ask for 6.5M doesn't seem that illogical.

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04-26-2012, 07:54 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Well, sure, in terms of the dollars, it would be in the context you give. I just don't think that Pittsburgh will be looking to trade Staal in the way that Philly was looking to trade Richards and Carter, and I think that's part of the reason why Staal, if traded, will garner a bigger return.

Now, if Staal's agent tells Shero he's testing free agency no matter what or that he'd only sign now for 7M, then all bets are off. I just don't see that being the case, which is why I don't see the same motivation for Shero to trade Staal as Homgren had to trade Richards and Carter.
We don't know what Shero is thinking but from what I have heard it sounds like he no longer believes the 3 center system works (could jest be rumors tho) if that is true I think they will shop Staal for a winger or a defenseman, I don't see Minny moving a defenseman so I could see Seto +2013 first.

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04-26-2012, 07:55 PM
  #180
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i have no argument with any of that and I made no statements regarding Staals value other than the Wild wouldn't be interested in paying the same kind of price SJ payed for Burns. You sound kind of mad. You might get what you're asking which would be an overpayment at face value but not to the team getting him if they ended up progressing further into the postseason. I'm not all that interested in him--certainly not enough to offer the kind of package that we got for Burns.

edit: van fans seem to be mad at Kesler lately...maybe make some sort of swap with them? I don't see Kesler having any problem with playing a third line role.
I'm not mad. I just find it comical that so few people appreciate what precisely Shero will want for Staal (an offer he can't refuse). I hardly expect teams to line up to pay it, but one or two might be willing to do so. We'll see . . .

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04-26-2012, 07:59 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
We don't know what Shero is thinking but from what I have heard it sounds like he no longer believes the 3 center system works (could jest be rumors tho) if that is true I think they will shop Staal for a winger or a defenseman, I don't see Minny moving a defenseman so I could see Seto +2013 first.
I think Shero was saying he'd evaluate if the model works. Personally, I don't think it does if your second priority is to invest 9M per year in Martin and Michalek, because you just can't have enough talent on the wings under the cap. And, personally, I see Shero asking for more than Seto and the Wild's first for Staal. Again, I'm not talking about what's a fair hockey trade, just what I see Shero looking for unless Staal forces his hand by not being willing to resign for 6.5M per or less.

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04-26-2012, 08:01 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I'm not mad. I just find it comical that so few people appreciate what precisely Shero will want for Staal (an offer he can't refuse). I hardly expect teams to line up to pay it, but one or two might be willing to do so. We'll see . . .
exactly! but IMO they're more likely going to be in the position that SJ was in last season than where MN is. Its worth the "overpayment" for a GM/Owner if they think it gets them to a cup sooner. Staal can make the difference in a team that's already good but not enough of a difference to propel a team like the Wild past the first round. Thus the Canucks suggestion.

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04-26-2012, 08:07 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
exactly! but IMO they're more likely going to be in the position that SJ was in last season than where MN is. Its worth the "overpayment" for a GM/Owner if they think it gets them to a cup sooner. Staal can make the difference in a team that's already good but not enough of a difference to propel a team like the Wild past the first round. Thus the Canucks suggestion.
O'k, then we're on the same page. So many variables here: Will Shero be able to sign Staal if push comes to shove? How desperate will other teams be? Will be interesting to watch . . .

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04-26-2012, 08:58 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
A Pittsburgh reporter suggested that Staal will be looking for a 7 year, 43M deal. It may be true, it may be BS . . . both are equally plausible.

That said, if Staal hit the open market, don't you think some desperate team or teams would bid north of 6.5M. So, the suggestion that his agent will ask for 6.5M doesn't seem that illogical.
The reporter I listened to said 7 yrs 45 to 50 million range. And from what he stated it was what other GMs would be willing to offer today if Jordan hit free agency so he assumed thats what Jordan would be looking for.

It sounded as if he had spoken to a few GMs around the league as opposed to Jordans agent, or was fed numbers by jordans agent who implied other GMs would pay that.

Or like you said, it could be horse poo.

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04-26-2012, 09:24 PM
  #185
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No one knows what Staal wants next contract. It's pure speculation.

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Old
04-26-2012, 09:52 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
No one knows what Staal wants next contract. It's pure speculation.
I'd imagine they might try to use Mikko Koivu as a reference point in negotiating.

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04-26-2012, 10:02 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
I'd imagine they might try to use Mikko Koivu as a reference point in negotiating.
The closest comparable is likely Kesler, or perhaps Horcroft (however he was getting #1c minutes).

I don't see him getting more than 6m and that's on a 6-7 yr deal.

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04-27-2012, 01:25 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Carter wasn't signed for only 1 more year not comparable.
No, he was signed until the end of time. Different kind of contract issue, same problems finding a team willing to take on that kind of commitment. Different ends of the spectrum.

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04-27-2012, 01:50 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Look at what you got for Burns. Whoever wants Staal will pay a similar price.
You can't really compare defensemen with forwards.

Burns was a rarity in the NHL; good size, could skate like the win, was a bit physical but also could chip in offensively. A big bodied, very mobile, very fast and offensive defenseman doesn't come around too often.

Staal is good but I don't see him being a top center on many teams...2nd at best and right now Minnesota is jammed with good centers.

Sany kind of overpaid for Burns because not very many defensemen of his kind end up on the market; Coyle was one year removed from his draft year, so he was still projecting and that 1st rounder was a very late 1st.

Pitty will get maybe what Losy traded for Carter. A late 1st and a top 6 winger.

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04-27-2012, 02:21 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
You can't really compare defensemen with forwards.

Burns was a rarity in the NHL; good size, could skate like the win, was a bit physical but also could chip in offensively. A big bodied, very mobile, very fast and offensive defenseman doesn't come around too often.

Staal is good but I don't see him being a top center on many teams...2nd at best and right now Minnesota is jammed with good centers.

Sany kind of overpaid for Burns because not very many defensemen of his kind end up on the market; Coyle was one year removed from his draft year, so he was still projecting and that 1st rounder was a very late 1st.

Pitty will get maybe what Losy traded for Carter. A late 1st and a top 6 winger.
Losy is Kings? They traded Jack Johnson and a 1st for Carter, not a winger and a 1st.

I agree with your point about D-Men, but think it extends to centers too. The supply never meets the demand when it comes to centers and D-Men. A young 2-way center like Staal hitting the market is rare. It does happen sometimes like with Carter and/or Richards recently. Usually guys like that don't get traded though and you can tell Ray Shero based on his tone in recent interviews really doesn't want to move Staal. He may have to if Staal wants a bigger role, but he said they haven't talked about it yet.

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Old
04-27-2012, 06:17 AM
  #191
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As an Oiler fan I'm curious if something like this would work:

Hemsky & Gagner - Jordan Staal.

though it may be unlikely that Edmonton parts with Hemmer since they just re-signed him. I'll admit however I am ignorant of pitts needs. I personally like it as it makes our top 3 center depth Nuge, Staal, Horcoff & the oilers have not had a big capable center in some time.

The top 9 would resemble something like:

Hartikainen-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Staal-Yakupov
Smyth-Horcoff-Jones

I'm curious what it looks like from Pitts point of view. Hemsky is expensive at 5m & has a long injury history, however he is a 1st line right wing that creates his own offense, he is responsible in his own end as well he was without a doubt the best Oiler in the last 25 or so game stretch this season. Gagner is quite inconsistent offensively & stands only about 5'10" but is a very skilled & dedicated center man. Has made great strides this season defensively & in the face-off dot. That is all I can input with confidence.

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04-27-2012, 06:26 AM
  #192
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Not keen on Hemsky, every Edmonton fan and his dog is trying to palm off Gagner, no thanks.

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04-27-2012, 09:03 AM
  #193
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I'd offer;

Milan Michalek
Bobby Butler
Nashvilles 3rd round pick

Thoughts?

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04-27-2012, 09:19 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I'm not mad. I just find it comical that so few people appreciate what precisely Shero will want for Staal (an offer he can't refuse). I hardly expect teams to line up to pay it, but one or two might be willing to do so. We'll see . . .
I don't think Shero will be of the mind that he'll only move Staal if he can fleece a team. If he decides moving Staal will help improve his team, it will only work for the other team who feels the same way otherwise there's no point in even discussing moving the player. Most of the GMs are very smart guys and only make deals that work for both sides.

Long term it will be exceedingly difficult to keep Staal, Crosby and Malkin and remain competitive in other parts of the lineup, so this seems to be a situation where he can get several pieces for Staal whom collectively would be more beneficial to the team than just Staal alone.

Staal deserves more ice time and he just won't get it in Pittsburgh behind Crosby and Malkin. Might as well plug holes in the roster and balance things out a bit and hopefully the result will be a happier locker room.

The Leafs make an interesting trading partner here because they have a similar problem in Defense where Pittsburgh arguably has some gaps. They can afford to lose Gunnarson, Schenn or Franson. Maybe even two of them.

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04-27-2012, 10:05 AM
  #195
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I'm a minny fan and would love Staal. Setoguchi and the 7th overall? We'd be hurting for wingers but Granlund could play on the Wing and we're going to need a roster spot for Coyle soon. Hate to lose the pick but Staal's better than who we'd get there...

Of course this only makes sense if we can lock him up long term. He and koivu would be 1a and 1b for a long time.

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04-27-2012, 10:47 AM
  #196
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The best fit for Staal and the Pens would be Phoenix IMO given the number of high end D prospects they have.

I think Carolina fits as well as they could ship Sutter and a high end D prospect the other way. I am not sure the brothers would want to play ont he same team, but maybe.

Edmonton fits given the attractive assets they can package, but Pittsburgh need young D more than wingers.


Gormley, Boedker and a pick from Phoenix

Murphy and either Alt or Biega and Sutter from Carolina

First overall from Edmonton

I think Staal's value perfectly equates to the first overall pick. If Edmonton need D they could always send a center to Phoenix or a winger to Carolina.

The three players that I think are worth trading the first overall for (with balancing draft picks) are Staal, OEL and Schneider at the C, D and G positions. I value those players: OEL>Staal= First overall>Schneider

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04-27-2012, 03:23 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
The best fit for Staal and the Pens would be Phoenix IMO given the number of high end D prospects they have.

I think Carolina fits as well as they could ship Sutter and a high end D prospect the other way. I am not sure the brothers would want to play ont he same team, but maybe.

Edmonton fits given the attractive assets they can package, but Pittsburgh need young D more than wingers.


Gormley, Boedker and a pick from Phoenix

Murphy and either Alt or Biega and Sutter from Carolina

First overall from Edmonton

I think Staal's value perfectly equates to the first overall pick. If Edmonton need D they could always send a center to Phoenix or a winger to Carolina.

The three players that I think are worth trading the first overall for (with balancing draft picks) are Staal, OEL and Schneider at the C, D and G positions. I value those players: OEL>Staal= First overall>Schneider
Uhh, WHAT?

The team that's about to possibly lose two young defenders because they don't have any room for them as the lineup is constructed today NEEDS young defenders?

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04-27-2012, 04:19 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by PuckInTheNards View Post
I'm a minny fan and would love Staal. Setoguchi and the 7th overall? We'd be hurting for wingers but Granlund could play on the Wing and we're going to need a roster spot for Coyle soon. Hate to lose the pick but Staal's better than who we'd get there...

Of course this only makes sense if we can lock him up long term. He and koivu would be 1a and 1b for a long time.
Good proposal

I know, we need defensmen more, but if we can't get any, or Bobby Ryan, I would do Seto + 7th overall.

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04-27-2012, 05:32 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
The best fit for Staal and the Pens would be Phoenix IMO given the number of high end D prospects they have.

I think Carolina fits as well as they could ship Sutter and a high end D prospect the other way. I am not sure the brothers would want to play ont he same team, but maybe.

Edmonton fits given the attractive assets they can package, but Pittsburgh need young D more than wingers.


Gormley, Boedker and a pick from Phoenix

Murphy and either Alt or Biega and Sutter from Carolina

First overall from Edmonton

I think Staal's value perfectly equates to the first overall pick. If Edmonton need D they could always send a center to Phoenix or a winger to Carolina.

The three players that I think are worth trading the first overall for (with balancing draft picks) are Staal, OEL and Schneider at the C, D and G positions. I value those players: OEL>Staal= First overall>Schneider
No we don't. We're set for D for a good few years if things pan out;

Simon Despres, Joe Morrow, Scott Harrington, Roberto Bortuzzo, Alex Grant and probably others that I've forgotten. We have only Beau Bennett on the wing really that could come through in the coming years.

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Old
04-27-2012, 05:42 PM
  #200
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You wouldn't trade a 5th overall for ONE YEAR OF Jordan Staal? I guess it works out great that no one would considering trading Staal for 5th overall.
Fixed it for you. All these proposals are rubbish unless you can be certain he will resign. A top UFA player gets a 1st rounder, an NHL player (depending on how "top" this guy is that player could be top 6) and a prospect. I would not trade the fifth pick this season for Staal and I am an Oiler fan and would really like to see him play in Edmonton. Now if it's a sign and trade deal, makes a lot more sense.

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