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Old
05-04-2012, 03:16 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
But can you imagine a Malkin/Neal and Crosby/Vanek combo? I think crosby and vanek would put up ridiculous numbers
That would be scary good, not to mention how badly they need somebody who can shoot from the left side on the power play.

Crosby has said that he loves having a righty shot winger on his line, and Vanek's style would probably bring about some 40 goal seasons for the both of them.

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05-04-2012, 03:50 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
lol... Leopold for letang swap...
If we had staal we could put together a Leino-Staal-Pommers line that would be excellent two way and offensively, staal and pommers would be our best 2 way forwards, unless we get hecht back and we could slot him in for leino
If the Sabres traded Leopold for Letang I would probably kill myself at the realization that reality has been an artificial construct and I am but a brain in a jar with electrodes hooking me up to a computer.

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05-04-2012, 04:06 PM
  #253
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If the Sabres traded Leopold for Letang I would probably kill myself at the realization that reality has been an artificial construct and I am but a brain in a jar with electrodes hooking me up to a computer.
exactly

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05-04-2012, 04:12 PM
  #254
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If the Sabres traded Leopold for Letang I would probably kill myself at the realization that reality has been an artificial construct and I am but a brain in a jar with electrodes hooking me up to a computer.
Especially given they already had Leopold before he came to us.

But hey, if there's any GM that could pull it off...Darth Regier is it.

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05-05-2012, 09:21 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
How did you come to the conclusion that Shero would be looking for an "elite scoring winger" after how this season and playoffs played out for the Pens?

They led the NHL in goals per game in the regular season and did it with Crosby only playing in 22 games. They also had the #2 (Malkin/50g) and #4 (Neal/40g) goal scorers in the NHL. In the playoffs they averaged over 4 goals a game. Scoring goals is not an issue.

On the other hand they were tied for 14th in goals allowed per game and were lit up by the Flyers in the playoffs.

Combine that with the following

1. They may be looking to beef up their top 6 wing(s), as in more than one.

2. They don't think they can afford to re-sign Staal

3. They need help defensively. If Staal gets traded they will get even weaker defensively.

With all of the above, why would the bother targeting Vanek and his contract?


Btw, I'm not married to a Stafford/Sekera trade proposal. I just used it to make a point about what kind of trade might make more sense need-wise and cap-wise for the Pens. It would be pretty good asset management by Shero to get a top 4 defensive dman and a top 6 winger for Staal. Plus they have a combined cap hit thats pretty close to what Staal is speculated to get.
they were 7th in the league in goals against the previous year. their problem on the blueline is coaching related. they need to adjust. blysma got owned by laviolette.

they were a high scoring team the previous year, and added Neal...

they could do a multitude of things if they move staal... you should recognize that

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05-05-2012, 09:46 AM
  #256
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This is from Jim Matheson of the Edmonton Journal, but it applies to any team interested in Staal and mirrors the concerns I posted earlier.

"The problems with the Staal for the No. 1 pick idea? His contract, with its $4.1-million cap hit, doesn’t end until July 1, 2013 when he will be an unrestricted free-agent. The Penguins can’t talk to him about a new deal before this July 1, and he would have to let them know in the upcoming weeks if he is not interested in re-signing, which I doubt. He likes it there, although they would have to give him upwards of $5 million a year to keep him.

If he did tell the Penguins he wanted out, Pittsburgh conceivably could let the Oilers know, but they would have to have a back-room agreement with Staal’s agent on a new, long-term contract for Staal prior to the draft. They are not going to trade the No. 1 pick unless they have a guarantee that Staal is coming their way. But why would Staal want to lock himself in with the Oilers when there might be 15 teams looking to sign him, including the Carolina Hurricanes, where he could play with his brother Eric?

Another thing: Staal has never had more than 50 points in a season. True, he has had to play behind Crosby, when healthy, and Malkin, but what is his offensive ceiling? If the Oilers were going to give up the No. 1 pick for Staal, they would have to get one of the Penguins’ young defencemen, too; for instance, local product Joe Morrow, who plays for the Portland Winterhawks, or Simon Despres, who played in the playoffs. Both are former first-round draft picks."

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...918/story.html

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05-05-2012, 11:13 AM
  #257
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After months of living without meaningful NHL trade rumours, speculation and gossip, finally something to sink our teeth into.

Thank you, Jordan Staal - or at least, the people pondering Staal’s future with the Pittsburgh Penguins, given that he is down to the final year of a contract that will pay him $4.5-million, after which he will become an unrestricted free agent.
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The thought that Staal might be available is tied mainly to two factors: one, Pittsburgh’s burgeoning payroll, and the uncertainty over how the next collective bargaining agreement will look; and two, the notion that with Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin ahead of him on the depth chart, Staal will forever be a third-line centre with top-six talent, unless he moves to greener, different pastures.
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Organizationally, the worst thing the Penguins can possibly do is trade Staal, thinking that they’ll have Crosby and Malkin at their disposal for 82 games next year, and then one or the other is back on the injured list and suddenly a position of strength - the NHL’s premier centre-ice corps - becomes a position of weakness
.

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When it comes to trade talks, the job of an NHL general manager is make an intelligent rationale decision at the junction where loyalty and smart business practices intersect. It sounds easy, but it really isn’t. Many times in the past, as mercenary as the industry has become, loyalty often trumps the more logical business path, when it comes to dealing - or more specifically, not dealing a player.
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If you’re Ray Shero, the GM in Pittsburgh - and you strip emotion, history, a recent Stanley Cup victory and all his health issues out of the equation - the cold, hard logical choice in Pittsburgh is not to move Staal, but to ponder what life might look like with Crosby in a different uniform.

Sacrilegious? Maybe. Likely to happen? No.

But from a business standpoint, the Penguins would have to acknowledge that all the hockey they played without Crosby these past two years, they were a pretty good team. Statistically, Malkin produces more points when Crosby is on the sidelines as opposed to in the line-up.

Staal is more productive too - he gets to play on the second power-play unit and his role on the team is more clearly defined. (Note that among Penguins’ forwards, Staal played the second-most minutes this season, 20:03, behind Malkin’s 21:01. He also had five goals on the power play and three on the penalty kill, which suggests that his value is known to the coaching staff, even if he is down at No. 5 on the scoring chart, with a highly respectable 50 points in 62 games).
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Shero cut his managerial teeth in the Nashville Predators organization before joining Pittsburgh, and so, he traditionally tends to err on the side of conservatism. The biggest moves he’s made (Kunitz for Ryan Whitney, Alex Goligoski for James Neal) are modest transactions compared to the tremors that a move involving Staal, or (far less likely) Crosby would make.
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But given how Shero operates, the most likely outcome is that all three are in Pittsburgh colours in September, and the Penguins adopt a wait-and-see attitude when it comes to their strength down the middle - postponing the discussion until they see what a new CBA looks like, which would then give them a far clearer look into what the future may hold.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...2422951/page1/

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05-05-2012, 05:24 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Most of that doesn't really make sense. Ya Crosby missed a lot of the last year and a half, but Staal has missed more time over his career with various injuries. The rationale that Crosby is more injury prone and should be traded rather than Staal is asinine.

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05-05-2012, 05:40 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by bobbyorrrrr View Post
Most of that doesn't really make sense. Ya Crosby missed a lot of the last year and a half, but Staal has missed more time over his career with various injuries. The rationale that Crosby is more injury prone and should be traded rather than Staal is asinine.
I personally think they would be rash to move any of their big three before the season unless they find a fantastic deal. They should see what they can do to improve their defense and see how it works out, imo.

I wonder if they'd be able to make a change in net. They'd probably be better off with a goalie who is perhaps not as talented but more consistent.

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05-05-2012, 05:42 PM
  #260
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I personally think they would be rash to move any of their big three before the season unless they find a fantastic deal. They should see what they can do to improve their defense and see how it works out, imo.

I wonder if they'd be able to make a change in net. They'd probably be better off with a goalie who is perhaps not as talented but more consistent.
nobody wants that head case flower unless their packaging him with one of those 3 centers.

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05-05-2012, 06:14 PM
  #261
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nobody wants that head case flower unless their packaging him with one of those 3 centers.
That's my thought, but if they were able to it could free up some space and improve their defense... depending on who they replace him with of course.

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05-05-2012, 08:14 PM
  #262
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they were 7th in the league in goals against the previous year. their problem on the blueline is coaching related. they need to adjust. blysma got owned by laviolette.

they were a high scoring team the previous year, and added Neal...
No they weren't. They were 13th in the NHL in goals per game in 10-11 largely due to injuries to their 3 centers.

The Pens also got Niskanen in that deal and gave up Goligoski. They hardly gave up anything to add Neal. Who btw had 1 year left (this past season) on his deal at a 2.87mil cap hit. Hardly the same as trading Staal for Vanek's 7.124mil cap hit.

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they could do a multitude of things if they move staal... you should
recognize that
That is a very nice vague statement that does nothing to bolster your arguement that trading Staal for Vanek makes any sense for the Pens.

Of course they can go in several directions if they trade Staal. If he is on the market many teams will be interested and will likely offer overpayments to get him. So in that enviroment with all those possible options, why on earth would the Pens decide to go after Vanek and his 7.124mil contract? With Crosby and Malkin as their top 2 centers they don't need to trade for a player like Vanek to get more offense on the wings.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why it makes sense for the Pens to trade Staal because of cap issues, only to do so for a player with an even higher cap hit than he is likely to re-sign for? On top of that its for a player that brings something (offense) thats not a need for the Pens.


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05-05-2012, 10:09 PM
  #263
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No they weren't. They were 13th in the NHL in goals per game in 10-11 largely due to injuries to their 3 centers.

The Pens also got Niskanen in that deal and gave up Goligoski. They hardly gave up anything to add Neal. Who btw had 1 year left (this past season) on his deal at a 2.87mil cap hit. Hardly the same as trading Staal for Vanek's 7.124mil cap hit.



That is a very nice vague statement that does nothing to bolster your arguement that trading Staal for Vanek makes any sense for the Pens.

Of course they can go in several directions if they trade Staal. If he is on the market many teams will be interested and will likely offer overpayments to get him. So in that enviroment with all those possible options, why on earth would the Pens decide to go after Vanek and his 7.124mil contract? With Crosby and Malkin as their top 2 centers they don't need to trade for a player like Vanek to get more offense on the wings.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why it makes sense for the Pens to trade Staal because of cap issues, only to do so for a player with an even higher cap hit than he is likely to re-sign for? On top of that its for a player that brings something (offense) thats not a need for the Pens.
i guess that's your mistake... it doesn't make sense for the Pens to trade staal because of cap issues... it makes sense for the Pens to trade Staal if they determine that he won't re-sign with them because he wants to go somewhere else to be the frontline guy.

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05-06-2012, 10:57 AM
  #264
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i guess that's your mistake... it doesn't make sense for the Pens to trade staal because of cap issues... it makes sense for the Pens to trade Staal if they determine that he won't re-sign with them because he wants to go somewhere else to be the frontline guy.
This.

According to that original tweet, Staal wants whatever team he goes to to be his team (which is why I can't see him wanting to play in Carolina behind his superior brother - but I guess it'd be "their" team).

He'd have that here. I think it's reasonable to think he could get 21 minutes a game while Hodgson and Ennis get around 18.

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05-06-2012, 11:54 AM
  #265
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If we have to keep staal happy being the man for him to resign does that mean he gets vanek and pomminville?
If we have
Vanek-Staal-Pomminville
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Will hodgson be happy?
Leino-Hodgson-Gerbe?
I want vanek with hodgson.
Maybe we could do Leino-Staal-Pominville and just have vanek-staal-pominvile on the pp. am i getting ahead of myself?

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05-06-2012, 12:19 PM
  #266
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The Penguins gave up things of value to add Neal. They haven't been the same defensively without having a legitimate top 3 guy in Goligoski on one of their bottom pairings.

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05-06-2012, 12:57 PM
  #267
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i guess that's your mistake... it doesn't make sense for the Pens to trade staal because of cap issues... it makes sense for the Pens to trade Staal if they determine that he won't re-sign with them because he wants to go somewhere else to be the frontline guy.
Yet again you avoid explaining why Vanek would make sense as a target for the Pens if they trade Staal. Many teams will be in the bidding for Staal. The Pens defense struggled during the regular season and fell apart during the playoffs. They don't need to add offense and they can't really afford to add a cap hit of 7.124mil next season. Why on earth, with that as the backdrop, would the Pens be interested in Vanek?

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05-06-2012, 12:59 PM
  #268
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This.

According to that original tweet, Staal wants whatever team he goes to to be his team (which is why I can't see him wanting to play in Carolina behind his superior brother - but I guess it'd be "their" team).

He'd have that here. I think it's reasonable to think he could get 21 minutes a game while Hodgson and Ennis get around 18.
Not sure why you're saying (this) in response to his post. He is responding to me questioning the idea that the Pens would want Vanek. Giving me another reason why Staal may get traded still doesn't explain why Vanek makes sense for the Pens. I've never questioned whether or not Staal would be in play.

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05-06-2012, 01:09 PM
  #269
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Most of that doesn't really make sense. Ya Crosby missed a lot of the last year and a half, but Staal has missed more time over his career with various injuries. The rationale that Crosby is more injury prone and should be traded rather than Staal is asinine.
What is insane is you don´t think Crosby is one hit away from retiring. Staal may get injured more but he will be in this league a lot longer then Crosby will.

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05-06-2012, 01:51 PM
  #270
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This.

According to that original tweet, Staal wants whatever team he goes to to be his team (which is why I can't see him wanting to play in Carolina behind his superior brother - but I guess it'd be "their" team).

He'd have that here. I think it's reasonable to think he could get 21 minutes a game while Hodgson and Ennis get around 18.
Staal wants an expanded role. I haven't read anywhere that he wants to go somewhere where he is The Guy.

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05-06-2012, 01:51 PM
  #271
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Not sure why you're saying (this) in response to his post. He is responding to me questioning the idea that the Pens would want Vanek. Giving me another reason why Staal may get traded still doesn't explain why Vanek makes sense for the Pens. I've never questioned whether or not Staal would be in play.
Well vanek+crosby=infinite goals

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05-06-2012, 02:07 PM
  #272
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Yet again you avoid explaining why Vanek would make sense as a target for the Pens if they trade Staal. Many teams will be in the bidding for Staal. The Pens defense struggled during the regular season and fell apart during the playoffs. They don't need to add offense and they can't really afford to add a cap hit of 7.124mil next season. Why on earth, with that as the backdrop, would the Pens be interested in Vanek?
why do we have to measure against what YOU think makes sense?

Did Vancouver trading Hodgson for Kassian make sense to you? Nope... but it happened.

i dont think its crazy to say "it makes sense for Pittsburgh to swap a 3rd line center for a 1st line goal scoring winger"... call me weird, but I don't think that's crazy.

Would they rather have a shut down defensemen? yea probably... but is anyone trading a shut down defensemen these days?

maybe you think they would prefer 2 second tier talents like Stafford and Sekera... I on the other hand, think they are more likely to look for a top end asset (or a haul of developmental talents)... 3 yrs and 7 million tied up in 2 second tier pieces vs 2 yrs and 7 million tied into 1 1st line talent?

who knows what shero wants to do... all i know, is there are multiple options and they all seem viable

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05-06-2012, 02:16 PM
  #273
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just to be clear... this type of trade applied to any "high paid" first line winger...

so you don't think the Pens would trade Staal for:
Nash
P.Kane
Hossa
Kessel
?

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05-06-2012, 02:45 PM
  #274
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Staal wants an expanded role. I haven't read anywhere that he wants to go somewhere where he is The Guy.
I'm speculating. Staal has played over 20 minutes a game routinely in each of (at least) the past three seasons. He already has a very large role (which is why, if you're Shero, trading him doesn't make much sense considering the Pens are still a contender).

I feel like the only step up from where he is now is to be THE featured player on his team.

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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Not sure why you're saying (this) in response to his post. He is responding to me questioning the idea that the Pens would want Vanek. Giving me another reason why Staal may get traded still doesn't explain why Vanek makes sense for the Pens. I've never questioned whether or not Staal would be in play.
Just enunciating that if Staal wants out it's because he wants to be the, as Jame put it, "frontline guy."

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05-07-2012, 09:22 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
I'm speculating. Staal has played over 20 minutes a game routinely in each of (at least) the past three seasons. He already has a very large role (which is why, if you're Shero, trading him doesn't make much sense considering the Pens are still a contender).

I feel like the only step up from where he is now is to be THE featured player on his team.
If I had to guess, I would expect Staal is wanting top line wingers and a lot more PP time.

Staal has been 6th/7th in PPTOI per Game the past four seasons in Pittsburgh and obviously hasn't had the best linemates on average.

IF Vanek is out, then you could have Leino & Pominville as Staal's linemates and the top PP unit being Hodgson & Pominville on the sidewalls and Staal in the slot with F-E-S as the 2nd unit like they were at the end of the season.

If Vanek is around, then they put Pominville on the point, Staal on the half wall, and Vanek in the slot on the 1st PP unit.

There are plenty of options that could give Staal a bigger role on the Sabres than he's had in Pittsburgh without taking anything at all away from Ennis & Hodgson.

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