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Old
06-01-2012, 03:32 PM
  #376
Zip15
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I'd like someone who doesn't want Jordan Staal to name me the 30 best centers in the NHL right now.

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06-01-2012, 03:36 PM
  #377
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
To be honest you are probably the worst poster in here
Hey lets trade Roy for nothing its addition by subtraction!
Hey lets build our defence around Sekera hes the best!
Hey lets trade a few little prospects, ony the best we have for a second line center that will likely leave at the end of the year
Hey toot toot toot
I am... the WORST!!!! ROAAAAAAAAAAR

But atleast i can read.

1. I never said trade Roy for "nothing", but I do believe moving him would be addition by subtraction in terms of team success.
2. I never said we should build our defense around Sekera, I said he had the best 2011-2012 season (he did)
3. I would trade high end prospects for a top tier, 23 yr old, shut down center

I am the worst

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06-01-2012, 03:41 PM
  #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I am... the WORST!!!! ROAAAAAAAAAAR

But atleast i can read.

1. I never said trade Roy for "nothing", but I do believe moving him would be addition by subtraction in terms of team success.
2. I never said we should build our defense around Sekera, I said he had the best 2011-2012 season (he did)
3. I would trade all our high end prospects and top draft pick for a top tier, 23 yr old, shut down center who is a UFA next year
I am the worst
umm you never said he had the best season you said he was the best player. There is a difference and you were wrong.

FIXED

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06-01-2012, 03:42 PM
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
So how does that work? The same way like with Drury? You cant negotiate until January 1st. Thought you knew everything?
This is virtual impossible and the fact that you are like a little kid making up your own rules is funny.

Also what happened to the quote where scarygood guys says he cant wait until Jame comes in and reads my posts? Seriously? Is that what passes in Forums these days? Guys chanting while the bully makes stuff up? Sweet!
Players on multi-year deals can be signed to an an extension starting July 1.

Players on a 1 year deal have to wait until January (so for instance, we'd have to wait until January before we could sign Sulzer to an extension because he will be on a one-year deal).

Staal has a multi-year contract currently, so he can be signed to an extension as early as July 1st.

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06-01-2012, 03:48 PM
  #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'd like someone who doesn't want Jordan Staal to name me the 30 best centers in the NHL right now.
heartsabre volunteers.... i really want to see his top 30 centers list.

I can't name 20 centers I'd rather have TODAY...
(this would be taking EVERYTHING into consideration... age, cap, all aspects of their game, intangibles, etc...)

but i'll try... no order

Guys I would definitely take over J.Staal:
Crosby
Malkin
Datsyuk
Kopitar
Stamkos
Giroux
Tavares
RNH
Getzlaf

Guys I put in the same ball park
Kesler
Benn
Backes
Bergeron
Toews
R Oreilly
Couture
MRichards
MKoivu

Guys who are really good offensively, but I'd honestly take JStaal over (yea get made):
Spezza
E.Staal
Backstrom
H Sedin

Guys I would DEFINITELY take Jstaal over
BRichards
Stastny
Thornton
Marleau
Weiss
Roy
Plekanec
Ribeiro
Pavelski
Krejci
Lecavalier
Carter

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06-01-2012, 03:48 PM
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Players on multi-year deals can be signed to an an extension starting July 1.

Players on a 1 year deal have to wait until January (so for instance, we'd have to wait until January before we could sign Sulzer to an extension because he will be on a one-year deal).

Staal has a multi-year contract currently, so he can be signed to an extension as early as July 1st.
So then when Jame says he needs to garauntee he will sign an extension it still makes no sense because during the negotiating the sabres would be able to negotiate an extension with Staal the only way they could not is if the Penguins would not allow the sabres to talk to Staal and why would they do that? They wouldn´t

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06-01-2012, 03:49 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
umm you never said he had the best season you said he was the best player. There is a difference and you were wrong.

FIXED
Yea, accept where I said
"Sekera WAS the best defensemen" in the title of the thread
And then posted a bunch of stats from ONE season

I either fell for the best trolling ever, or you can't read

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Old
06-01-2012, 03:53 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
So then when Jame says he needs to garauntee he will sign an extension it still makes no sense because during the negotiating the sabres would be able to negotiate an extension with Staal the only way they could not is if the Penguins would not allow the sabres to talk to Staal and why would they do that? They wouldn´t
1. The only reasons the Pens trade Staal is if they determine they aren't going to or can't re-sign him
2. If they are going to trade him, he has MORE value if a team can work out an extension with him

So if the Pens decide they are going to trade Staal, it makes plenty of sense to allow him to work out an extension as it increases his trade value.

All of this is pointless, since I the Pens would be idiotic to let him work out an extension with an Eastern team.

It's just important to point out that once again, you didn't have all the facts

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06-01-2012, 03:56 PM
  #384
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Also, if anyone is including 2012 picks in a package for Staal, switch it for next season. I highly doubt the Penguins trade him at the draft, I'd bet they go into July and maybe August trying to re-sign him and Crosby before making a move.

Of course the Sabres wouldn't be able to talk with him at all until they trade for him (or he hits UFA). So likely Regier might try to get info from Shero about his demands if they trade to make a determination before the deal of whether the Sabres would be able to sign him. I highly doubt the Penguins would let another team try to work out a deal on an extension before the trade was made.

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Old
06-01-2012, 03:59 PM
  #385
Jame
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Also, if anyone is including 2012 picks in a package for Staal, switch it for next season. I highly doubt the Penguins trade him at the draft, I'd bet they go into July and maybe August trying to re-sign him and Crosby before making a move.
yea, that's a good point

again. its a total pipe dream anyway.

the bottom line: The Sabres are not getting JStaal... but they HAVE to find that type of player somewhere... anyone who has paid attention to the post season the last few years should recognize that.

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06-01-2012, 04:00 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Also, if anyone is including 2012 picks in a package for Staal, switch it for next season. I highly doubt the Penguins trade him at the draft, I'd bet they go into July and maybe August trying to re-sign him and Crosby before making a move.

Of course the Sabres wouldn't be able to talk with him at all until they trade for him (or he hits UFA). So likely Regier might try to get info from Shero about his demands if they trade to make a determination before the deal of whether the Sabres would be able to sign him. I highly doubt the Penguins would let another team try to work out a deal on an extension before the trade was made.
Shero could give Regier permission to talk to him... if helped facilitate a trade (got Pittsburgh more value)

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06-01-2012, 04:03 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Also, if anyone is including 2012 picks in a package for Staal, switch it for next season. I highly doubt the Penguins trade him at the draft, I'd bet they go into July and maybe August trying to re-sign him and Crosby before making a move.

Of course the Sabres wouldn't be able to talk with him at all until they trade for him (or he hits UFA). So likely Regier might try to get info from Shero about his demands if they trade to make a determination before the deal of whether the Sabres would be able to sign him. I highly doubt the Penguins would let another team try to work out a deal on an extension before the trade was made.
Sure about that? Sometimes we are right, sometimes we are wrong.

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06-01-2012, 04:05 PM
  #388
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Hey Jame you're in the right here but Backstrom is almost as good as Bergeron defensively while being much better offensively.

/nitpick

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06-01-2012, 04:11 PM
  #389
Jame
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Hey Jame you're in the right here but Backstrom is almost as good as Bergeron defensively while being much better offensively.

/nitpick
Sorry... i dont think that's remotely accurate

Patrice Bergeron is a borderline Selke caliber center
Backstrom isn't even good defensively, and he's sheltered from the responsibility

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06-01-2012, 04:41 PM
  #390
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Backstrom's very good on his own. If you had 5 NB's you'd be set. The problem is his incredibly ****** linemates over the past year throwing off his stats.

/anecdotalevidence
/CSN

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06-01-2012, 04:48 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Sorry... i dont think that's remotely accurate

Patrice Bergeron is a borderline Selke caliber center
Backstrom isn't even good defensively, and he's sheltered from the responsibility
I'd bet that he wins the Selke this year.

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06-01-2012, 05:05 PM
  #392
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Which would be a travesty, cause Chara is already stealing the Norris from Pietro and Backes was the better defensive player.

And Backstrom has a top 5 Selke finish, he's at worst average in his own zone and much better than similarly talented offensive forwards.

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06-02-2012, 04:39 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
heartsabre volunteers.... i really want to see his top 30 centers list.

I can't name 20 centers I'd rather have TODAY...
(this would be taking EVERYTHING into consideration... age, cap, all aspects of their game, intangibles, etc...)

but i'll try... no order

Guys I would definitely take over J.Staal:
Crosby
Malkin
Datsyuk
Kopitar
Stamkos
Giroux
Tavares
RNH
Getzlaf

Guys I put in the same ball park
Kesler
Benn
Backes
Bergeron
Toews
R Oreilly
Couture
MRichards
MKoivu

Guys who are really good offensively, but I'd honestly take JStaal over (yea get made):
Spezza
E.Staal
Backstrom
H Sedin

Guys I would DEFINITELY take Jstaal over
BRichards
Stastny
Thornton
Marleau
Weiss
Roy
Plekanec
Ribeiro
Pavelski
Krejci
Lecavalier
Carter
The bolded are all better by a mile but you are also talking about 23 year olds vs 33 year olds. All things being equal.

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Old
06-02-2012, 08:26 AM
  #394
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Not really relevant what the odds are, not relevant what you think. I deal with what is real. He is headed for UFA next year unless that changes that is what happens.
Feel free to undervalue Staal, Getzlaf, Roy, and every other guy that is slated to be a UFA in 13 months.

NHL GMs won't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
You probably gave Suter and Parise the same odds
Nope, both NJ and Nashville have had ongoing monetary issues that made it very likely that those two hit UFA especially after the Kovy and Rinne deals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
What would you offer for Staal, maybe we can rip it apart.
The problem is that I doubt the Sabres have what Pittsburgh wants for a guy like Staal.

But, for giggles, I'd start with the best young winger the Sabres can offer (Armia) and the 12th pick as an opening offer to see what the Pens wanted.

I'd even consider throwing McNabb or Pysyk into the deal to make it happen.

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06-02-2012, 11:01 AM
  #395
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I'd have only very very minor quibbles with Jame's tiered rankings. Seems very much about right.

I've like Jordan Staal since his rookie year, and would overpay to get him, but agree it's highly unlikely he lands in Buffalo between now and the end of his eventual future RFA summer.

Really just wanted to post if I ever win the lottery, after investing a 3rd and giving a 3rd to charity, from the 3rd I'd spend (if there's enough money left over after my selfish pursuits), I'd by Jame and heartsabres a cabin on a week-long cruise (separate beds, of course).

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06-02-2012, 11:48 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'd like someone who doesn't want Jordan Staal to name me the 30 best centers in the NHL right now.
Easy.Here's over 30 and these are the no brainer ones...I left out the debatable ones so some people won't cry (Pavelski, Roy )

I'd take these guys below easily over Staal for next season.Seems the motif around here is the grass is always greener when it comes to center..since Staal is big and rugged and scores ~50 or less points every season he is a surefire #1 center

Ryan Getzlaf ANA
David Krejci BOS
Patrice Bergeron BOS
Eric Staal CAR
Jeff Skinner CAR (listed as Center,5th on CAR for FOs)
Jonathan Toews CHI
Matt Duchene COL (Yep, broke 50+ points first 2 seasons, Staal has hit 50 points ONCE)
Paul Stastny COL
Mike Ribeiro DAL
Jamie Benn DAL (listed as lw, took 4th most draws on stars)
Henrik Zetterberg DET
Pavel Datsyuk DET
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins EDM
Anze Kopitar LAK
Mike Richards LAK
Jeff Carter LAK
Mikko Koivu MIN
Tomas Plekanec MTL
Patrik Elias NJD
Adam Henrique NJD (Already beat Staals career high his rookie season, this kid is CLUTCH)
John Tavares NYI
Brad Richards NYR
Jason Spezza OTT
Claude Giroux PHI
Daniel Briere PHI
Sidney Crosby PIT
Evgeni Malkin PIT
Joe Thornton SJ
Logan Couture SJ
David Backes STL
Steven Stamkos TAM
Ryan Kesler VAN
Henrik Sedin VAN
Niklas Backstrom WSH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
But, for giggles, I'd start with the best young winger the Sabres can offer (Armia) and the 12th pick as an opening offer to see what the Pens wanted.

I'd even consider throwing McNabb or Pysyk into the deal to make it happen.
Uhhh what?Your trading Armia+12+McNabb/Pysyk for a guy who has NEVER scored MORE then 50 points? If you want a big center who is good defensively then trade other assets and get a 3rd line type, not gut our future for a guy who has NEVER proven he can be a #1 center.

If we ever traded those 3 assets for Staal it better be Eric not freakin JORDAN...those 3 for an impending UFA is a horrible proposal.I forgot this is HF, Jordan played as an 18 year old former #2 pick, I forgot that means his value on these boards is 3x what it is in real life.


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Old
06-02-2012, 12:11 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
I'd have only very very minor quibbles with Jame's tiered rankings. Seems very much about right.

I've like Jordan Staal since his rookie year, and would overpay to get him, but agree it's highly unlikely he lands in Buffalo between now and the end of his eventual future RFA summer.

Really just wanted to post if I ever win the lottery, after investing a 3rd and giving a 3rd to charity, from the 3rd I'd spend (if there's enough money left over after my selfish pursuits), I'd by Jame and heartsabres a cabin on a week-long cruise (separate beds, of course).
Staal will be a UFA after next season, not RFA.

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06-02-2012, 12:32 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
...

I'd take these guys below easily over Staal for next season.Seems the motif around here is the grass is always greener when it comes to center..since Staal is big and rugged and scores ~50 or less points every season he is a surefire #1 center

...
Uhhh what?Your trading Armia+12+McNabb/Pysyk for a guy who has NEVER scored MORE then 50 points? If you want a big center who is good defensively then trade other assets and get a 3rd line type, not gut our future for a guy who has NEVER proven he can be a #1 center.

If we ever traded those 3 assets for Staal it better be Eric not freakin JORDAN...those 3 for an impending UFA is a horrible proposal.I forgot this is HF, Jordan played as an 18 year old former #2 pick, I forgot that means his value on these boards is 3x what it is in real life.
He's never proven he can be a #1 center, because he's played behind not just one, but 2 of the leagues #1 centers. (and I know you know this)

By your logic, since he is the #3 and not the #1 center with PIT, Jordan Staal will never be able to prove he is a #1 center, therefore, he cannot be a #1 center.

That's about as close to reductio ad absurbum as we get on these boards.

@fifagod, "Staal will be a UFA after next season, not RFA." Yeah, I know, typo. If he was RFA, we all know PIT would qualify him.

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06-02-2012, 12:41 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
If we ever traded those 3 assets for Staal it better be Eric not freakin JORDAN...those 3 for an impending UFA is a horrible proposal.I forgot this is HF, Jordan played as an 18 year old former #2 pick, I forgot that means his value on these boards is 3x what it is in real life.
His value doesn't derive from the fact that he played in the league at 18 and was a No. 2 overall pick. It's because he's a defensive stalwart with size and untapped offensive potential.

Anybody who thinks Staal wouldn't be a perfect fit in Buffalo isn't paying attention. Staal comes in and is instantly one of our best forwards (and probably becomes Lindy's most heavily relied upon). Staal/Pominville would be an elite two-way duo.

You aren't trading for Staal expecting him to be a number one, 80-point center. You trade assets for him because he's a fantastic player and is exactly the kind of player Buffalo needs.


By the way, taking subtle stabs at HF is silly. Don't like it? Don't visit.

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06-02-2012, 01:08 PM
  #400
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By the way, taking subtle stabs at HF is silly. Don't like it? Don't visit.
I dont like my ex girlfriend but I still visit her every once and a while!

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