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06-21-2012, 06:22 PM
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Staal doesn't have the playmaking abilities Ennis has.
but he does have more assists per game over the last 2 years
.42 vs .36

#mythsthatneeddebunking

Staal is 1 yr older then Ennis, and is his superior in every statistical manner.

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06-21-2012, 06:23 PM
  #577
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All signs indicate that staying away from Staal is the smart move. However, I won't fault Regier for trying to trade for him/actually doing it, even if they can't get him to sign. It'd be a ballsy move - and one that I'd support.

(and i'm typically conservative, akin to Regier)

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06-21-2012, 06:28 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods View Post
All signs indicate that staying away from Staal is the smart move. However, I won't fault Regier for trying to trade for him/actually doing it, even if they can't get him to sign. It'd be a ballsy move - and one that I'd support.

(and i'm typically conservative, akin to Regier)
I'd risk it. Miller, Vanek, and Pominville are free agents after the 2013-2014 season. Leopold, Roy, Regehr, and Sulzer are all UFA's after this season. He's got to reload at some point.

Risk Staal not resigning. Pegula's a businessman - it's part of his trade to be a convincing negotiator. He did it with Regehr and Ehrhoff. If I was GM, and Pegula underwrote the move pending him personally working Staal's resigning, I'd take that risk.

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06-21-2012, 06:33 PM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I'd risk it. Miller, Vanek, and Pominville are free agents after the 2013-2014 season. Leopold, Roy, Regehr, and Sulzer are all UFA's after this season. He's got to reload at some point.

Risk Staal not resigning. Pegula's a businessman - it's part of his trade to be a convincing negotiator. He did it with Regehr and Ehrhoff. If I was GM, and Pegula underwrote the move pending him personally working Staal's resigning, I'd take that risk.
The only way I could see Jordan Staal re-signing in Buffalo is if they traded for Marc.

Eric isn't going anywhere.

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06-21-2012, 06:33 PM
  #580
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i completely agree with Doak...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Soooooo let me understand this. Staal doesn't want to sign with Pittsburgh, a team who could legitimately 2-3 more Stanley Cups with, in his career, because he doesn't want to play 2nd fiddle to Crosby/Malkin. However, what he DOES want to do is go to a team where he will play 2nd fiddle to his oldest brother, whom he's been in the shadow of his entire life? On a team, mind you, that has missed the playoffs 4 out of the 6 years since the lockout and, even with both Staal's, aren't a lock for the playoffs.

Oh, and on top of that, he wants to play for a historically cheap owner in a building that sits half empty alot of nights?

Speculation is just that...speculation. You know who knows where Jordan wants to go? Jordan. Anyone in the press who claims other is just trying to drive traffic to their website or sell a couple of more pieces of paper.

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06-21-2012, 06:42 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- He'd be "the man" in Buffalo... something he supposedly desires to be
- He'd be playing for an owner monetarily committed to winning a cup. He could practically write his own contract... How many teams are going to offer JStaal 60 million over 10-12 years? with 30 million up front in the first 3 years? Answer: Not many.
- He'd have the opportunity to be a small market hero, just like his brother.

if he wanted to be on a front line contender, he could just stay in Pitt...
Funny how you were actually spot on, Jame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Spector's Hockey ‏@SpectorsHockey

Sabres have called about Jordan Staal, according to Pierre LeBrun. Maple Leafs might have interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crow View Post
"Keep an eye on the Sabres, theyíre planning on being aggressive." - LeBrun in his ESPN article today.
I love the sound of this. I trust LeBrun. It sounds like we're involved in something. Can't wait to see what it is.

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06-21-2012, 06:43 PM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
The only way I could see Jordan Staal re-signing in Buffalo is if they traded for Marc.

Eric isn't going anywhere.
No offense, but I don't buy the "money vs. family" reporting that's going on right now.

We're talking about a 23-year-old that's making decisions that will likely carry implications for the rest of his life, and folks have narrowed his considerations to money and family? It's more complex that that.

- He's obviously considering playing on a team that can win the Cup.

- He's getting married tomorrow, so he might be thinking long-term and family. He's probably also taking a lot of input from his new wife.

- What if Jordan wants to "be the man?" He's been playing in the shadow of Eric, Crosby, and Malkin his entire career. What if he thinks he's just as capable as all the recognized 1C's in the league, and wants to go somewhere where he can finally be the star? And show everyone what he thinks he's capable of?

And that's just what we can think of. There's probably more. The only folks that know are Jordan, and those he's talked to about it (agent, family, close friends).

The "turning down money to play with brothers" concept may eventually turn out to be correct, but it's an incredibly narrow viewpoint to take.

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06-21-2012, 06:47 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
The "turning down money to play with brothers" concept may eventually turn out to be correct, but it's an incredibly narrow viewpoint to take.
They talked about playing together in the NHL since the time Eric was drafted. Heck, they've probably dreamed about it since the time they started skating.

I would be very surprised if he turned down 10 yrs $60M from the Pens because it wasn't frontloaded enough.

His desire to play with his brother(s) may be getting overblown.

But, for a guy that already has a ring, it wouldn't shock me if it were dead on.

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06-21-2012, 07:00 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
They talked about playing together in the NHL since the time Eric was drafted. Heck, they've probably dreamed about it since the time they started skating.

I would be very surprised if he turned down 10 yrs $60M from the Pens because it wasn't frontloaded enough.

His desire to play with his brother(s) may be getting overblown.

But, for a guy that already has a ring, it wouldn't shock me if it were dead on.
why did eric sign such a long term deal then? he didn't turn down the long term money to team up with jordan somewhere in 2013... if this was "planned" why didn't eric insist on a 4 yr deal?

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06-21-2012, 07:03 PM
  #585
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I don't think Regier (or us as fans) have to wrestle with the question of how much Staal would cost at this point. Shero's bargaining power is greatly reduced now, so Staal could potentially come as cheap as a 1st rd pick...maybe add in another later pick. Besides, to get Staal means to trade away Roy, and the return for Roy mitigates the cost of Staal.

So for Regier the question is not about how much he has to give up, but whether one year of Staal is worth it at all or right for the team. I would not have any rosy aspirations that Pegula could convince Staal to re-sign, and I wouldn't allow that thought to cloud the decision process. It should simply boil down to whether it's worth a 1st rd pick + to have Staal for one season. I would guess the answer is no, unless other moves pan out that would put Buffalo in the ranks of legit Cup contenders.

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06-21-2012, 07:05 PM
  #586
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From LeBrun:

Quote:
PITTSBURGH -- Bombshell news on the eve of the NHL draft with my TSN teammate Bob McKenzie breaking the story that local star Jordan Staal has turned down a 10-year contract extension from the Pittsburgh Penguins.

I reached Staalís agent, Paul Krepelka, who confirmed the news.

"He is not prepared to enter into a contract extension at this time," Krepelka told ESPN.com.

All of which has obvious and major ramifications if the Penguins are unable to change Staalís mind. The talented, two-way center has one year left on his deal with Pittsburgh at a $4 million cap hit before hitting unrestricted free agency. (The Penguins' 10-year offer is believed to be worth $60 million).

If Staal doesnít change his mind this summer about an extension, it forces the hand of Penguins GM Ray Shero to possibly trade him before losing him for nothing a year from now.

As I wrote on June 8, the Carolina Hurricanes are an obvious front-runner for Staal, wanting to unite the Staal brothers, Eric and Jordan, in Raleigh, N.C.

There would be a long list of teams vying for Staal, including the likes of Toronto, Buffalo and Anaheim just to name a few. But as one NHL GM told ESPN.com Thursday evening, "Letís be honest, Carolina has the hammer."


If itís true that Jordan wants to join Eric in Carolina a year from now via unrestricted free agency, then the Hurricanes indeed have the hammer.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...pens-extension

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06-21-2012, 07:08 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I don't think Regier (or us as fans) have to wrestle with the question of how much Staal would cost at this point. Shero's bargaining power is greatly reduced now, so Staal could potentially come as cheap as a 1st rd pick...maybe add in another later pick. Besides, to get Staal means to trade away Roy, and the return for Roy mitigates the cost of Staal.

So for Regier the question is not about how much he has to give up, but whether one year of Staal is worth it at all or right for the team. I would not have any rosy aspirations that Pegula could convince Staal to re-sign, and I wouldn't allow that thought to cloud the decision process. It should simply boil down to whether it's worth a 1st rd pick + to have Staal for one season. I would guess the answer is no, unless other moves pan out that would put Buffalo in the ranks of legit Cup contenders.
Ding ding ding ding ding! Winner!!

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06-21-2012, 07:09 PM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
but he does have more assists per game over the last 2 years
.42 vs .36

#mythsthatneeddebunking

Staal is 1 yr older then Ennis, and is his superior in every statistical manner.
What are Ennis' assists/points per game since moving to center where he properly belongs though? I'm guessing much much closer to 1.00.

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06-21-2012, 07:10 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
What are Ennis' assists/points per game since moving to center where he properly belongs though? I'm guessing much much closer to 1.00.
yea, a 14 game sample! getting easy minutes!

good job!

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06-21-2012, 07:27 PM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
yea, a 14 game sample! getting easy minutes!

good job!
From mid-January to the end of the season was only 14 games?

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06-21-2012, 07:33 PM
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
yea, a 14 game sample! getting easy minutes!

good job!
Ennis played more than 14 games at center! Good job!

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06-21-2012, 07:33 PM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
From LeBrun:

There would be a long list of teams vying for Staal, including the likes of Toronto, Buffalo and Anaheim just to name a few. But as one NHL GM told ESPN.com Thursday evening, "Letís be honest, Carolina has the hammer."

If itís true that Jordan wants to join Eric in Carolina a year from now via unrestricted free agency, then the Hurricanes indeed have the hammer.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...pens-extension

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06-21-2012, 07:37 PM
  #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Ennis played more than 14 games at center! Good job!
he was moved to FOR THE FIRST TIME... about 2 weeks before the trade deadline.

After the trade deadline he was shifted back to the wing for a short period.

then, on march 10, he was back at center with the infamous foligno-ennis-staff line. THAT line had great success march 10 to the end of the season (14 games)

14 games consistently at center + a handful of games in the few games preceedingly the trade deadline


try harder

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06-21-2012, 07:59 PM
  #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
From mid-January to the end of the season was only 14 games?
Facts have no place here.

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06-21-2012, 08:02 PM
  #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
From mid-January to the end of the season was only 14 games?
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Facts have no place here.
ennis wasn't even playing hockey in mid january... let alone center


keep trying team

the Gerbe-Ennis-Stafford line played a handful of games together in mid february... im going to guess 6 games... give or take
when Hodgson was acquired, Ennis went back to wing (yay lindy)
Ennis didn't move back to center until march 10

edit: MY MISTAKE
The Gerbe-Ennis-Stafford line was together for 13 games

Ennis then went back to wing for 6 games after Hodgson was acquired

and then played the final 14 games at center again

so 27 games total


Last edited by Jame: 06-21-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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06-21-2012, 08:24 PM
  #596
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I'd say on a Ruff team APTOI would be a better metric.

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06-21-2012, 08:26 PM
  #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
I'd say on a Ruff team APTOI would be a better metric.
for what?

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06-21-2012, 08:27 PM
  #598
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judging "playmaking ability," I guess. And take Staal's 09-11 stats vs Ennis 10-12.

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06-21-2012, 08:55 PM
  #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
judging "playmaking ability," I guess. And take Staal's 09-11 stats vs Ennis 10-12.
we should leave out Staal's best season because he's a year older? That's ridiculous, Staal made the growth in his game that everyone is projecting for Ennis.

We can look a Assist per 60 TOI at both ES and PP if you like:

2011-2012
Staal G PER 60 ES 0.99
Staal A1 PER 60 ES 0.99
Staal A2 PER 60 ES 0.33
Total 2.33 PTS PER 60 ES

Ennis G PER 60 ES 1.19
Ennis A1 PER 60 ES 0.92
Ennis A2 PER 60 ES 0.54
Total 2.66 PTS PER 60 ES

Staal G PER 60 PP 1.98
Staal A1 PER 60 PP 0.49
Staal A2 PER 60 PP 0.48
Total 2.96 PTS PER 60 PP

Ennis G PER 60 PP 0.67
Ennis A1 PER 60 PP 0.00
Ennis A2 PER 60 PP 1.34
Total 2.04 PTS PER 60 PP

I can bring in the context of roles to bring more detail (staal has a much more difficult role)

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06-21-2012, 09:06 PM
  #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I don't think Regier (or us as fans) have to wrestle with the question of how much Staal would cost at this point. Shero's bargaining power is greatly reduced now, so Staal could potentially come as cheap as a 1st rd pick...maybe add in another later pick. Besides, to get Staal means to trade away Roy, and the return for Roy mitigates the cost of Staal.

So for Regier the question is not about how much he has to give up, but whether one year of Staal is worth it at all or right for the team. I would not have any rosy aspirations that Pegula could convince Staal to re-sign, and I wouldn't allow that thought to cloud the decision process. It should simply boil down to whether it's worth a 1st rd pick + to have Staal for one season. I would guess the answer is no, unless other moves pan out that would put Buffalo in the ranks of legit Cup contenders.
Well, this also is contingent on the Pens being sold on trading him now, instead of taking another stab at the Cup with him in the fold.

The Penguins could very well say "we're not looking to move him, we'll take our chances but we think we can get a Cup this year." In which case, the price it takes to pry him out could easily go back up. We're discussing how a team who thinks they can contend this season might try to get him for 1 year...the Pens you'd have to consider in the same boat.

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