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Old
06-22-2012, 09:34 AM
  #626
5 Minute Major
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Pittsburgh should just keep him, make a run at a Cup this year, and let the chips fall where they may in free agency.
Staal or no Staal, the Penguins will make a run at the Cup.

I'd maximize his value before I'd lose him for nothing.

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06-22-2012, 09:37 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Staal or no Staal, the Penguins will make a run at the Cup.

I'd maximize his value before I'd lose him for nothing.
It sounds like you're suggesting they'd be as good without him as they are with him. I don't believe that. Take a run at it, and let the chips fall where they may. I applaud Jersey for holding Parise all season, and they were two games from a Stanley Cup.

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06-22-2012, 09:40 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
It sounds like you're suggesting they'd be as good without him as they are with him. I don't believe that. Take a run at it, and let the chips fall where they may. I applaud Jersey for holding Parise all season, and they were two games from a Stanley Cup.
No, I agree with you but I am thinking long term where they could really maximize his value and be able to be a force for many more years to come.

Just my thinking.

He could bring a nice windfall of young, cheap, good players and the Pens could use that.

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06-22-2012, 09:43 AM
  #629
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I don't think Shero can get more than a pick and prospect for Staal at this point.

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06-22-2012, 09:47 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I don't think Shero can get more than a pick and prospect for Staal at this point.
Don't be fooled. There are 29 other teams in this league that would love to have him and, if he is made available, there will be a bidding war.

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06-22-2012, 09:51 AM
  #631
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Yeah for one season...nobody is getting into a bidding war for one season.

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06-22-2012, 10:02 AM
  #632
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Teams get in bidding wars for 18 games and playoffs.

Thats said, not interested in Staal without a contract... I'd focus elsewhere if I'm Darcy.

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06-22-2012, 10:10 AM
  #633
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ESPN's Hockey Today podcast featuring Burnside, Custance and LeBrun said that Staal's getting married Friday night so that could factor into him not wanting to talk long-term extension with Pittsburgh right now.

They also think Buffalo have phoned Pittsburgh on Staal, as well as Toronto and Anaheim, but maintain that Carolina have the obvious trump card in his brother.

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06-22-2012, 10:13 AM
  #634
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But if it's a bidding war at the deadline, we're talking about teams on the verge of a legit chance at the Cup. Sometimes there is also a chance the player is going to re-sign. In this scenario nobody is on the verge of anything, with not much confidence in giving up major assets because of that. Add in that besides Carolina and maybe NYR, NO TEAM right now expects any chance what-so-ever of re-signing Staal. It's not a "maybe" situation, it's an "almost no chance" situation. A 1st rd pick and a solid prospect (or maybe later rd pick) is not a pittance for a one year player anyway. Not when you are pretty much certain that it's for a one season player.

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06-22-2012, 10:22 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Pominville fo one year of Staal is just silly.
Not advocating that. Advocating trading and then resigning. Banking on Pegula-power.

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06-22-2012, 10:38 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
ESPN's Hockey Today podcast featuring Burnside, Custance and LeBrun said that Staal's getting married Friday night so that could factor into him not wanting to talk long-term extension with Pittsburgh right now.

They also think Buffalo have phoned Pittsburgh on Staal, as well as Toronto and Anaheim, but maintain that Carolina have the obvious trump card in his brother.
Hey, Pens fan here. Just some thoughts:

1. I am not surprised at all that Staal rejected Shero's offer so emphatically. 10 years, 60M is a lot of money, but it's also 15-20% less per year than Staal could get if he ever hit July 1, 2013. Plus, asking him to take that much less for the privilege of playing a primarily defensive role and centering Cooke and Kennedy types doesn't strike me as a great pitch.

2. People read much too much into this whole 'Jordan only wants to play in Carolina BS'. This is a business decision. It's about money, role, and environment. He wants closer to 7M, he wants a prime role, and he prefers to play for a solid organization with good prospects moving forward and in a city where he doesn't have a light shined on him 24/7. Carolina hits those check marks, with the added benefit that his brother plays there. Buffalo hits those check marks too (the trade off is no brother in exchange for a team with more immediate prospects for success). If Reiger is looking to acquire him, it's with every intention of giving Staal right now exactly what he'd want on July 1, 2013 (that's something Shero could never do).

3. Jeff Marek on XM radio reported that the Canes offered Ruutu, Ryan Murphy, and the 8th overall. If this whole 'Staal only will play with his brother' thing were true, then he wouldn't have offered that. The reason: Rutherford knows that having Eric gets him to the negotiating table and maybe gets Jordan willing to take a little more less than what he'd want on July 1, 2013. BUT, he also knows if, for example, Reiger gets him, odds are that an overwhelming offer at a minimum gets Staal to the negotiating table. Why? Because it's in his interest not to wait to see how the CBA and perhaps an under performance once finally cast in that 1C role would affect his value when he can get exactly what he wants now.

I'll leave whether he's worth it and what it will take to get him to you guys, but I wanted to chime in with my thought that, if Reiger gets him, then he's got every bit as much of a chance of resigning him as Rutherford does, because Reiger can give him the money, the role, the solid organization, the low key city environment, and, instead of a brother on the roster, better prospects to win sooner.

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06-22-2012, 11:43 AM
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I don't think Shero can get more than a pick and prospect for Staal at this point.

Quote:
Louis Jean‏@SNLouisJean

This may be an understatement but someone close to Pens-Staal negs told me Ray Shero was livid following Staal rejection of 10 yr contract.
https://twitter.com/SNLouisJean/stat...91063277305857

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06-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #638
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I don't blame Shero. It puts him in a tough bind.

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06-22-2012, 12:24 PM
  #639
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LMAO, Penguins should have traded him by now. His value is just going down. They're losing their leverage.

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06-22-2012, 12:24 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Teams get in bidding wars for 18 games and playoffs.

Thats said, not interested in Staal without a contract... I'd focus elsewhere if I'm Darcy.
That's what he indicated he would do in his comments yesterday or the day before......(not interested in a short term 1 year situation). I'm going to take him at his word.

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06-22-2012, 12:36 PM
  #641
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i'd give him 10 million per year for the first 4 years... and then enough years and reductions in salary to make his cap hit less then 6 million... example:

10
10
10
10
6
6
6
4
4
2
1
1

= 12 yrs / 70 million / 5.83 cap hit

pegula bucks
I know this is a lot of money, but I can't see Staal signing it. $6M when he's 28? $4M when he's 31? He can make a LOT more money than that if he doesn't get hurt. A 12 year deal doesn't buy enough "old man" years for a kid who's only 23 today.

If he really turned down 10 years at $60M in Pittsburgh as rumored, I think we're talking more like a 15 year deal at $90M-$100M to make it happen. Those numbers make me gag, but if Pegula wants a cup, that's a deal he has to make.

Make Staal the man. Put an A on his sweater at his introductory press conference. Put Vanek and Pomms on his wings. Play him 22+ minutes per night in all situations. Don't look back.

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06-22-2012, 12:45 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by SabresOnTheWarpath View Post
I know this is a lot of money, but I can't see Staal signing it. $6M when he's 28? $4M when he's 31? He can make a LOT more money than that if he doesn't get hurt. A 12 year deal doesn't buy enough "old man" years for a kid who's only 23 today.

If he really turned down 10 years at $60M in Pittsburgh as rumored, I think we're talking more like a 15 year deal at $90M-$100M to make it happen. Those numbers make me gag, but if Pegula wants a cup, that's a deal he has to make.

Make Staal the man. Put an A on his sweater at his introductory press conference. Put Vanek and Pomms on his wings. Play him 22+ minutes per night in all situations. Don't look back.
value of money up front

if pitt offered him 10 yrs at 60 million but only paid 6 million a year... then the Buffalo offer its SOOO much more valuable

The value of money in the present is much greater then in the future... the growth on the investment of that 40 million in 4 years vs 24 million in 4 years... That's a TON of money.

Theres a reason why players are accepting these front loaded deals...

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06-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by SabresOnTheWarpath View Post
I know this is a lot of money, but I can't see Staal signing it. $6M when he's 28? $4M when he's 31? He can make a LOT more money than that if he doesn't get hurt. A 12 year deal doesn't buy enough "old man" years for a kid who's only 23 today.

If he really turned down 10 years at $60M in Pittsburgh as rumored, I think we're talking more like a 15 year deal at $90M-$100M to make it happen. Those numbers make me gag, but if Pegula wants a cup, that's a deal he has to make.

Make Staal the man. Put an A on his sweater at his introductory press conference. Put Vanek and Pomms on his wings. Play him 22+ minutes per night in all situations. Don't look back.
Lindy Ruff is our coach, so that line will get broken up after the 1st week of the season, and he'll limit staal's ice time by putting guys like matt ellis out to score the game tying goal when we're down 1 late in the 3rd

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06-22-2012, 01:00 PM
  #644
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Just thinking about any of these guys making that much money makes my head spin.
Even moreso when one considers that amount for a 20-goal, 50-point player. It wasn't that long ago where the $6M+ players were ones who scored 40+ goals and 90+ points. It's just a sign of how the standards for player production have dropped because of the NHL's endorsement of play that de-emphasizes offense and skill.

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06-22-2012, 01:03 PM
  #645
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Roy, Gerbe, Leopold, #21, #44, and next year's 1st rounder
for
Stall & Orpik

Under the condition that he'll sign Jame's contract suggestion

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06-22-2012, 01:04 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
value of money up front

if pitt offered him 10 yrs at 60 million but only paid 6 million a year... then the Buffalo offer its SOOO much more valuable

The value of money in the present is much greater then in the future... the growth on the investment of that 40 million in 4 years vs 24 million in 4 years... That's a TON of money.

Theres a reason why players are accepting these front loaded deals...
I get that, but I don't think that's the best offer he can get. Look at the deal Brad Richards got at age 31 (9 years, $60M, all front loaded). Or the fact that Mike Richards got the same years/dollars you proposed (albiet not front loaded) five years ago.

It's 2012 and Staal is age 23. There are basically no good centers available on the market. The cap is ridiculously high and tons of teams have money to spend. Front loaded or not, I just don't think $70M gets it done unless we have another Staal on the roster to lure him in.

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06-22-2012, 01:05 PM
  #647
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He wants more than 6 million, I'm all for obtaining Staal and I'm even willing to trade one of Ennis or Hodgson for him. Is he really worth 6m+? I think he has the potential to be a #1 center, but if his offensive production doesn't improve to say 80+ points, 7m is going to be overpayment, no matter how good his defensive production is. Unless he brings us a cup of course.

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06-22-2012, 01:12 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by matthew94 View Post
Roy, Gerbe, Leopold, #21, #44, and next year's 1st rounder
for
Stall & Orpik

Under the condition that he'll sign Jame's contract suggestion
I can't see Pittsburgh doing that. I think they insist on one of Ennis/Hodgson/Armia/McNabb/Foligno plus picks and lesser prospects. Maybe they ask for Roy too if Ennis/Hodgson isn't in the deal.

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06-22-2012, 01:17 PM
  #649
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He wants more than 6 million, I'm all for obtaining Staal and I'm even willing to trade one of Ennis or Hodgson for him. Is he really worth 6m+? I think he has the potential to be a #1 center, but if his offensive production doesn't improve to say 80+ points, 7m is going to be overpayment, no matter how good his defensive production is. Unless he brings us a cup of course.
I disagree. $7M is too much for the 12-13 season. As the average over a 12+ year deal, it's fine. Much worse players than Jordan Staal will be making $7M by 2024.

We'd be better off adding years on the back end to keep the cap hit down though like Jame suggested.

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06-22-2012, 01:19 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by matthew94 View Post
Roy, Gerbe, Leopold, #21, #44, and next year's 1st rounder
for
Stall & Orpik

Under the condition that he'll sign Jame's contract suggestion
under a contract extension scenario... it's more like Ennis, Adam, Sekera.... not Roy, Gerbe, Leopold

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