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04-29-2012, 01:45 PM
  #176
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Hi all, I'm a Penguins fan that saw "All Things Jordan Staal" from the main page and found my way over here.

I don't want to trade Jordan Staal and will be thrilled if he signs for $6ish million long term in Pittsburgh. With that said I thought I'd share some thoughts on what I think a Staal to Buffalo deal would look like. I'll start with a summary of the Penguins organizational strengths and weaknesses and finish with the assets Buffalo has I think Ray Shero would find appealing.

Contrary to what you might think given the large amount of Martin/Michalek/Orpik hate on HF right now the Penguins do not need to add young defencemen. The Penguins have drafted numerous defencemen over the last 4 years and they're going to start earning their way onto the roster next year. Simon Despres, Brian Strait, and Robert Bortuzzo are all NHL ready. Joe Morrow and Scott Harrington are both at most 2 years away. In Morrow's case he'll probably be ready by mid next year. That's not even counting 2 or 3 other high picks in the system.

For better or worse Fleury is the starting goalie in Pittsburgh. The back up job is wide open. I suspect Shero will want bring in a new backup given Johnson's UFA status and the fall off in his game.

The Penguins lack size on the wing and in the bottom 6 generally if they lose Staal. Pascal Dupuis and James Neal are the only wingers over 6 feet tall. Eric Tangradi will likely join the group next year, but on a team without Staal they remain a small forward group despite his addition.

They are also in need of skilled right hand shooters to compliment Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, and Dupuis. Steve Sullivan is old, small, a defensive liability, and a UFA. He was the best right handed option last year...

The Penguins are fine at centre even without Staal. Crosby and Malkin will eat up 40+ minutes a night. Joe Vitale and Dustin Jeffrey are more than capable of cleaning up the scraps. Craig Adams or Dupuis are both able to move over from the wing for a short term fix in the event of injury.

If I had to predict a return from Buffalo is would be:

-Drew Stafford
-Joel Armia
-The 12th overall OR Jhonas Enroth

Derek Roy doesn't fill any need for the Penguins. I would bet my house he's not involved in a Sabres/Penguins trade for Staal.

Thomas Vanek doesn't fit in the Penguins salary structure. I would prefer to not get into the minute detail of why this is so. Please just take my word for it. He's a great hockey fit, but a bad business fit for the Penguins.

Jason Pominville is a nice player, but I suspect Buffalo values him more highly than what he would be worth to Pittsburgh. He's not that old, that small, or that highly paid, but all those things taken together and he becomes less than ideal. You don't trade Jordan Staal for anything less than ideal.

I hope that offers some useful insight.

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04-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #177
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Stafford, Armia and Enroth sounds good to me.

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04-29-2012, 02:19 PM
  #178
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Stafford, Armia and Enroth sounds good to me.
Done done and done. Where do I sign?

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04-29-2012, 03:09 PM
  #179
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Staff, Armia, Enroth is fair. I would do it.

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04-29-2012, 04:47 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Roy makes $5.5m next year. Dealbreaker from Phoenix's perspective. And to give up their top defensive center in the process? Not going to happen.
The issues with Roy to Phoenix don't really have much to do with Derek's contract. The Yotes paid Daymond Langkow over 4 million this season to be a fourth liner and will have the necessary dollars coming off the books to add him to the roster. Roy prolly isn't going to the desert because the Coyotes don't have the assets to get him, even at a discount, unless it's a cap deal.

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04-29-2012, 05:38 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
The issues with Roy to Phoenix don't really have much to do with Derek's contract. The Yotes paid Daymond Langkow over 4 million this season to be a fourth liner and will have the necessary dollars coming off the books to add him to the roster. Roy prolly isn't going to the desert because the Coyotes don't have the assets to get him, even at a discount, unless it's a cap deal.
You are not serious are you? I cant tell when people are sarcastic.

Pretty sure a first and any one of Rundblad, Murphy or Gormley would get it done. In fact it would be an overpayment from the Coyotes.

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04-29-2012, 05:38 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Hi all, I'm a Penguins fan that saw "All Things Jordan Staal" from the main page and found my way over here.

I don't want to trade Jordan Staal and will be thrilled if he signs for $6ish million long term in Pittsburgh. With that said I thought I'd share some thoughts on what I think a Staal to Buffalo deal would look like. I'll start with a summary of the Penguins organizational strengths and weaknesses and finish with the assets Buffalo has I think Ray Shero would find appealing.

Contrary to what you might think given the large amount of Martin/Michalek/Orpik hate on HF right now the Penguins do not need to add young defencemen. The Penguins have drafted numerous defencemen over the last 4 years and they're going to start earning their way onto the roster next year. Simon Despres, Brian Strait, and Robert Bortuzzo are all NHL ready. Joe Morrow and Scott Harrington are both at most 2 years away. In Morrow's case he'll probably be ready by mid next year. That's not even counting 2 or 3 other high picks in the system.

For better or worse Fleury is the starting goalie in Pittsburgh. The back up job is wide open. I suspect Shero will want bring in a new backup given Johnson's UFA status and the fall off in his game.

The Penguins lack size on the wing and in the bottom 6 generally if they lose Staal. Pascal Dupuis and James Neal are the only wingers over 6 feet tall. Eric Tangradi will likely join the group next year, but on a team without Staal they remain a small forward group despite his addition.

They are also in need of skilled right hand shooters to compliment Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, and Dupuis. Steve Sullivan is old, small, a defensive liability, and a UFA. He was the best right handed option last year...

The Penguins are fine at centre even without Staal. Crosby and Malkin will eat up 40+ minutes a night. Joe Vitale and Dustin Jeffrey are more than capable of cleaning up the scraps. Craig Adams or Dupuis are both able to move over from the wing for a short term fix in the event of injury.

If I had to predict a return from Buffalo is would be:

-Drew Stafford
-Joel Armia
-The 12th overall OR Jhonas Enroth

Derek Roy doesn't fill any need for the Penguins. I would bet my house he's not involved in a Sabres/Penguins trade for Staal.

Thomas Vanek doesn't fit in the Penguins salary structure. I would prefer to not get into the minute detail of why this is so. Please just take my word for it. He's a great hockey fit, but a bad business fit for the Penguins.

Jason Pominville is a nice player, but I suspect Buffalo values him more highly than what he would be worth to Pittsburgh. He's not that old, that small, or that highly paid, but all those things taken together and he becomes less than ideal. You don't trade Jordan Staal for anything less than ideal.

I hope that offers some useful insight.
The majority of us would be down for sending a Stafford/Armia/Enroth package.

Any interest in Sekera as opposed to Stafford? Most Sabres' fans value Sekera a lot higher. I'm surprised you didn't include him in your proposal.

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04-29-2012, 06:20 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
The majority of us would be down for sending a Stafford/Armia/Enroth package.

Any interest in Sekera as opposed to Stafford? Most Sabres' fans value Sekera a lot higher. I'm surprised you didn't include him in your proposal.
Stafford is a better fit for the Penguin's needs. Even though defence was a problem in the playoffs the I think they can find solutions internally. They need a power play scoring threat on the wall opposite Malkin, Neal, and Crosby.

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04-29-2012, 06:27 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
You are not serious are you? I cant tell when people are sarcastic.

Pretty sure a first and any one of Rundblad, Murphy or Gormley would get it done. In fact it would be an overpayment from the Coyotes.
How many of those guys are NHL ready forwards? At this stage in the game, Roy isn't getting traded for defense prospects unless it facilitates a separate trade for up front, and that statement isn't a reach.

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04-29-2012, 07:34 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Stafford is a better fit for the Penguin's needs. Even though defence was a problem in the playoffs the I think they can find solutions internally. They need a power play scoring threat on the wall opposite Malkin, Neal, and Crosby.
I would hate to trade stafford after the tear him and ennis went on in the last twenty games, I am also very high on armia, but for staal I would probably be happy doing this deal

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04-29-2012, 07:49 PM
  #186
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Just posted the stafford/armia/enroth proposal on the penguins board woth the options of
Roy/Stafford
Adam/Armia
1st/Enroth
So we will see what they think of it

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04-29-2012, 07:57 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Just posted the stafford/armia/enroth proposal on the penguins board woth the options of
Roy/Stafford
Adam/Armia
1st/Enroth
So we will see what they think of it
That first has a lot more value than Enroth to the Pens, even after the series Fleury had.

At the point of Armia, 1st, Stafford/Roy I get a bit more hesitant. I might make it depending on who I there at 12 if they choose Stafford.

If they choose Roy I'd be less hesitant to make the deal since Roy/Staal/Ennis/Hodgson is a bit of a logjam.

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04-29-2012, 08:02 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by BuiltTagonTough View Post
That first has a lot more value than Enroth to the Pens, even after the series Fleury had.

At the point of Armia, 1st, Stafford/Roy I get a bit more hesitant. I might make it depending on who I there at 12 if they choose Stafford.

If they choose Roy I'd be less hesitant to make the deal since Roy/Staal/Ennis/Hodgson is a bit of a logjam.
Thats why i gave the option for roy, even if they chiose stafford though im sure roy would be moved elsewhere, I also gave the adam option because id rather trade him than armia and he is more well known

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04-29-2012, 08:24 PM
  #189
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Roy,Armia,Brennan and NSH 1st for staal

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04-29-2012, 08:35 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Roy,Armia,Brennan and NSH 1st for staal
Id do that in a second, the sad part is id have a hardertime letting armia and brennan go then roy


Last edited by McTank: 04-29-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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04-29-2012, 08:52 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Roy,Armia,Brennan and NSH 1st for staal
Where can I sign off on that. although yes, losing armia would suck. but not all prospects are what they seem to be...look at what happened with kassian.
Edit: not trying to hate on armia or anything like that, just saying it can be difficult to project what guys will become

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04-29-2012, 09:27 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Stafford, Armia and Enroth sounds good to me.
That would get it done, but it's an overpayment. Maybe. Hmmm I'll have to think on this one. It would hurt to lose Enroth but...we could find another back-up. Why not Brent Johnson? Not as good as Enroth and certainly not as promising, but he could play 20-25 games and not hurt a team. So, the x-factor becomes Armia who is an amazingly promising player, I can't wait to see him in the NHL. That's a lot to give but I think that might be enough to pry Shero's coveted #2 overall pick away.

I think the pressure is on their GM to improve their defense, so, even though they really could use a winger for Sid, that might not be a front burner issue.

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04-29-2012, 09:28 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If there is one thing that has been filtered out of his game since he was young and up and coming, it's his work along the boards in the offensive zone (which was one of his greatest attributes in the Drury/Briere days). I'm not sure he could be an effective winger the way he was when he was young and hungry. I think he's become the type of player that needs the puck on his stick, and if it's not he's disintersted. I may be one of the bigger Roy appologists around here, but I have a hard time seeing him being successful on the wing again. I just don't see the competitivness in his game anymore.
That and MOST GM's don't bet the house on players successfully switching positions.

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04-29-2012, 09:38 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Hi all, I'm a Penguins fan that saw "All Things Jordan Staal" from the main page and found my way over here.

I don't want to trade Jordan Staal and will be thrilled if he signs for $6ish million long term in Pittsburgh. With that said I thought I'd share some thoughts on what I think a Staal to Buffalo deal would look like. I'll start with a summary of the Penguins organizational strengths and weaknesses and finish with the assets Buffalo has I think Ray Shero would find appealing.

Contrary to what you might think given the large amount of Martin/Michalek/Orpik hate on HF right now the Penguins do not need to add young defencemen. The Penguins have drafted numerous defencemen over the last 4 years and they're going to start earning their way onto the roster next year. Simon Despres, Brian Strait, and Robert Bortuzzo are all NHL ready. Joe Morrow and Scott Harrington are both at most 2 years away. In Morrow's case he'll probably be ready by mid next year. That's not even counting 2 or 3 other high picks in the system.

For better or worse Fleury is the starting goalie in Pittsburgh. The back up job is wide open. I suspect Shero will want bring in a new backup given Johnson's UFA status and the fall off in his game.

The Penguins lack size on the wing and in the bottom 6 generally if they lose Staal. Pascal Dupuis and James Neal are the only wingers over 6 feet tall. Eric Tangradi will likely join the group next year, but on a team without Staal they remain a small forward group despite his addition.

They are also in need of skilled right hand shooters to compliment Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, and Dupuis. Steve Sullivan is old, small, a defensive liability, and a UFA. He was the best right handed option last year...

The Penguins are fine at centre even without Staal. Crosby and Malkin will eat up 40+ minutes a night. Joe Vitale and Dustin Jeffrey are more than capable of cleaning up the scraps. Craig Adams or Dupuis are both able to move over from the wing for a short term fix in the event of injury.

If I had to predict a return from Buffalo is would be:

-Drew Stafford
-Joel Armia
-The 12th overall OR Jhonas Enroth

Derek Roy doesn't fill any need for the Penguins. I would bet my house he's not involved in a Sabres/Penguins trade for Staal.

Thomas Vanek doesn't fit in the Penguins salary structure. I would prefer to not get into the minute detail of why this is so. Please just take my word for it. He's a great hockey fit, but a bad business fit for the Penguins.

Jason Pominville is a nice player, but I suspect Buffalo values him more highly than what he would be worth to Pittsburgh. He's not that old, that small, or that highly paid, but all those things taken together and he becomes less than ideal. You don't trade Jordan Staal for anything less than ideal.

I hope that offers some useful insight.
Pomminville would be an absolute cure-all for just about everything that ails the Penguins power play (except carrying it up ice), and his intangibles are Ron Francisish.

He does not however, play that proto-typical style of Penguins hockey. The prerequisite for Penguin wingers is to HIT, and get their nose dirty in the corners each and every shift. Pomminville is a very cerebral player, and I could see him being a little out of place if asked to dump and destroy every shift. Think of him as a super-charged Sullivan. He can run the LW boards and LP on the PP tremendously. WAY better one timer than Letang's. Great, great passer too and very good defensively. But, again the Pens might find the bigger bodied Stafford more to their systems liking. he doesn't hit a great deal for Ruff, but if asked to, he probably would be as good as Neal is at it. He could probably pop in 40 with Crosby or Malkin, and he's younger and more cap friendly.

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04-29-2012, 10:24 PM
  #195
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That and MOST GM's don't bet the house on players successfully switching positions.
Odd that you say that as a buffalo fan

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04-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #196
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Why are we still talking about Roy for Hanzal??
Especially in a thread about the idea of acquiring Jordan Staal. Back on topic folks.

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04-30-2012, 12:14 PM
  #197
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Especially in a thread about the idea of acquiring Jordan Staal. Back on topic folks.
Ryder, Halak, and a 2nd should do it for Staal.

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04-30-2012, 01:04 PM
  #198
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Interesting trio of tweets from Bob McKenzie:

Quote:
There's a lot of Jordan Staal talk, where his long-term home is (PIT or elsewhere?). Being a year from UFA means he's driving the bus
Quote:
PIT can't get full market value in trade for J Staal if he's one and done in the new locale. So Staal ultimately ends up wherever he wants.
Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised if all three Staal brothers eventually want to play on same team. Eric, BTW, has four more years on his CAR deal.
http://twitter.com/#!/tsnbobmckenzie

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04-30-2012, 01:14 PM
  #199
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Added to Zip's post:

Bob McKenzie ‏
Which is to suggest Eric not going anywhere. Just a guess, but if Jordan isn't a Penguin -- not suggesting he's not -- a Cane seems logical.

I don't see what they would even give up to get Jordan before he's a free agent.

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04-30-2012, 01:20 PM
  #200
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Added to Zip's post:

Bob McKenzie ‏
Which is to suggest Eric not going anywhere. Just a guess, but if Jordan isn't a Penguin -- not suggesting he's not -- a Cane seems logical.

I don't see what they would even give up to get Jordan before he's a free agent.
Sutter and one of their young D (Faulk) might be a pretty tempting offer.

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