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Luongo To Toronto? Part II

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04-26-2012, 01:52 PM
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
will Burke go against what he believes in?
Well here's the thing...

Burke has consistently said he won't sign guys to those contracts. I don't know if he's mentioned anything about trading for them.

This is also a goaltender, so things are slightly different, especially because this has been a glaring hole in this organization since Belfour left.

Finally Nonis has traded for this guy once, who's to say he won't do it again. I think Luongo could thrive here. While Carlyle plays more defensive, its a far cry from Vancouver's defensive play, Luongo has always played better when he's getting shelled.

I also think it could be a great opportunity for Reimer. He's still young by goalie standards, and not ready to carry the weight of the hardest fan base on his shoulders. Having him play 35 games may be a lot better than having him play 65.

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04-26-2012, 01:53 PM
  #352
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His contract is horrendous, I hope we stay far away.

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04-26-2012, 01:55 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Kulie View Post
His contract is horrendous, I hope we stay far away.
Explain why it's so bad. There's been countless posts on here that show why his contract is no where close to as bad as some of the contracts out in the league right now. People need to remember this is one of the best goaltenders in the league.

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04-26-2012, 01:55 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Kulie View Post
His contract is horrendous, I hope we stay far away.
But it isn't. The cap hit is less than $6 million, just slightly under what Tim Connolly is costing the Leafs.

It's a long contract, but it's quite cap friendly. And Luongo is far more likely to retire than hang around in the final years of his contract making a fraction of what he used to be paid.

Edit: I read somewhere earlier today explaining that the back end of the deal (final four years I believe) are structured to represent something similar to a signing bonus - only it's paid out at the end of the deal rather than at the beginning. I can't remember the source of that article. It might have been Steve Simmons. I'm going to look.

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04-26-2012, 01:57 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Explain why it's so bad. There's been countless posts on here that show why his contract is no where close to as bad as some of the contracts out in the league right now. People need to remember this is one of the best goaltenders in the league.
One of the best goaltenders in the league, and cap-hit wise he isn't paid like one of them.

The TERM is bad, the cap hit isn't.

And as I've argued here before, if theres one team that can afford to bury a 38 year old goalie making 5+ mill, its the leafs.

The Bruins have a situation like this on their hands with Thomas, and everyone seems to wanna be like the Bruins. I don't understand.

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04-26-2012, 01:58 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
But it isn't. The cap hit is less than $6 million, just slightly under what Tim Connolly is costing the Leafs.

It's a long contract, but it's quite cap friendly. And Luongo is far more likely to retire than hang around in the final years of his contract making a fraction of what he used to be paid.

Edit: I read somewhere earlier today explaining that the back end of the deal (final four years I believe) are structured to represent something similar to a signing bonus - only it's paid out at the end of the deal rather than at the beginning. I can't remember the source of that article. It might have been Steve Simmons. I'm going to look.
His caphit is just barely greater than Komisarek's, and we had him sitting in the press box for most of the season. In fact, the more I think about this, the greater the package i'd give Vancouver for his services.

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04-26-2012, 01:59 PM
  #357
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It was Simmons.

Here is a link.

It explains how the team could potentially treat the final years of the contract.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/25...ptions-limited

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04-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
His caphit is just barely greater than Komisarek's, and we had him sitting in the press box for most of the season. In fact, the more I think about this, the greater the package i'd give Vancouver for his services.
The other thing is that it's pretty likely that we'll end up throwing salary back Vancouver's way. Wouldn't be surprised if its one of the infamous "lack".

You're trading money from the press box for money that fills this team's biggest need.

As far as I'm concerned, if the package is as small as speculated to be, you go get Luongo and deal with the term of the contract when it becomes an issue in 5 years.

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04-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
One of the best goaltenders in the league, and cap-hit wise he isn't paid like one of them.

The TERM is bad, the cap hit isn't.

And as I've argued here before, if theres one team that can afford to bury a 38 year old goalie making 5+ mill, its the leafs.

The Bruins have a situation like this on their hands with Thomas, and everyone seems to wanna be like the Bruins. I don't understand.
Not sure how Thomas' situation is the same as Luongo. Thomas is 37 and has a year left on his deal (3 million salary, 5 cap hit) and he's won a Stanley Cup. I believe he'll go to Chicago, and give them a good back bone to make another push for the cup.

Luongo is only 32 and hasn't won a Stanley Cup. He's signed until 2021-2022. He's got a pretty friendly cap hit for a big team like the Leafs. It's not something to be scared of, and he's one of the better goalies in the league.

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04-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
Well here's the thing...

Burke has consistently said he won't sign guys to those contracts. I don't know if he's mentioned anything about trading for them.

This is also a goaltender, so things are slightly different, especially because this has been a glaring hole in this organization since Belfour left.

Finally Nonis has traded for this guy once, who's to say he won't do it again. I think Luongo could thrive here. While Carlyle plays more defensive, its a far cry from Vancouver's defensive play, Luongo has always played better when he's getting shelled.

I also think it could be a great opportunity for Reimer. He's still young by goalie standards, and not ready to carry the weight of the hardest fan base on his shoulders. Having him play 35 games may be a lot better than having him play 65.
Burke could argue that he never gave Luongo the contract and he needed the best goalie available and got him. The contract was there whether he traded for Lou or not. Sounds like a good "out clause" to me.

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04-26-2012, 02:02 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
His caphit is just barely greater than Komisarek's, and we had him sitting in the press box for most of the season. In fact, the more I think about this, the greater the package i'd give Vancouver for his services.
His cap hit is more than manageable. In fact, it's attractive. And for Vancouver to be able to move that amount of money they would have to take some salary back. The Leafs have a couple of expiring contracts that could make this swap relatively painless.

I was skeptical about this entire possibility because Luongo has a no-trade in his contract and can control where he goes. Once I heard he's willing to come to Toronto that was the end of the story. Get him!

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04-26-2012, 02:04 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Not sure how Thomas' situation is the same as Luongo. Thomas is 37 and has a year left on his deal (3 million salary, 5 cap hit) and he's won a Stanley Cup. I believe he'll go to Chicago, and give them a good back bone to make another push for the cup.

Luongo is only 32 and hasn't won a Stanley Cup. He's signed until 2021-2022. He's got a pretty friendly cap hit for a big team like the Leafs. It's not something to be scared of, and he's one of the better goalies in the league.
Luongo also has ties to Allaire and other management types in the Leafs front office.

If the Leafs sit this out a team like Tampa Bay or New Jersey (assuming Brodeur retires) is going to swoop in and make this deal.

How would that feel? Watching Tampa get back into the playoffs with Luongo, while we're all sitting here saying: "Well, at least we didn't take that contract on..."

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04-26-2012, 02:06 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
Luongo also has ties to Allaire and other management types in the Leafs front office.

If the Leafs sit this out a team like Tampa Bay or New Jersey (assuming Brodeur retires) is going to swoop in and make this deal.

How would that feel? Watching Tampa get back into the playoffs with Luongo, while we're all sitting here saying: "Well, at least we didn't take that contract on..."
Do you think either Tb or New Jersey can handle that contract ($, not cap hit) and keep what they have together?

Is Parise gone if Luongo comes in?

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04-26-2012, 02:06 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
It was Simmons.

Here is a link.

It explains how the team could potentially treat the final years of the contract.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/25...ptions-limited
It sums it up perfectly.

Basically, we are dedicating $5 million dollars of future cap space to nothingness.

Great goalie. Horrendous contract. But what can't be ignored, is that he's probably the best option out there in terms of a starter for the Maple Leafs

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04-26-2012, 02:08 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Do you think either Tb or New Jersey can handle that contract ($, not cap hit) and keep what they have together?

Is Parise gone if Luongo comes in?
What's Brodeur's cap hit?

If he retires that amount of salary cap space becomes available. Think about it for a second.

A trade with Tampa would have to involve money going back to Vancouver, but that would be expected in any deal for Luongo. Vancouver is not going to be able to dump that amount of money onto another team for a pick and prospect. They will have to take some money on themselves to make it work.

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04-26-2012, 02:08 PM
  #366
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so what do we have to give up u think in order to get him??

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04-26-2012, 02:08 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Not sure how Thomas' situation is the same as Luongo. Thomas is 37 and has a year left on his deal (3 million salary, 5 cap hit) and he's won a Stanley Cup. I believe he'll go to Chicago, and give them a good back bone to make another push for the cup.

Luongo is only 32 and hasn't won a Stanley Cup. He's signed until 2021-2022. He's got a pretty friendly cap hit for a big team like the Leafs. It's not something to be scared of, and he's one of the better goalies in the league.
I mean more in terms of aging goaltender, with a good young guy waiting in the wings.

One of the main arguments I see here is "Well what if Reimer turns out to be a star then were ****ing stuck with ****ing Luongo"

The Bruins have managed that situation for the last 3 years, and everyone loves the Bruins situation.

If Luongo keeps playing like he is there will be nothing wrong with taking on that contract. If he doesn't, there are tons of options available for mgmt to deal with it when the time comes.

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04-26-2012, 02:08 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Flea90 View Post
so what do we have to give up u think in order to get him??
My honest guess:

2nd Round Pick, B level prospect, cap dump

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04-26-2012, 02:09 PM
  #369
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OK lets say Luongo, Kiprusoff and Thomas all become available this offseason. Rank them in order from the one you want the most to least. I think Thomas is the best of the three but I dont want to trade with Boston

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04-26-2012, 02:10 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
It sums it up perfectly.

Basically, we are dedicating $5 million dollars of future cap space to nothingness.

Great goalie. Horrendous contract. But what can't be ignored, is that he's probably the best option out there in terms of a starter for the Maple Leafs
The term of the contract is horrendous (Burke is right in his general belief that contracts over five years are huge risks). However, the length is what makes the cap hit affordable.

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04-26-2012, 02:13 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
OK lets say Luongo, Kiprusoff and Thomas all become available this offseason. Rank them in order from the one you want the most to least. I think Thomas is the best of the three but I dont want to trade with Boston
1. Luongo (still relatively young, lots of playoff experience, cap hit number is very friendly).

2. Thomas (is older, can be an off ice distraction - political views, plays for a division rival. Shorter length contract and his experience and level of play would dictate that the Bruins would want a solid package of players for him).

3. Kipper (Not sure of his contract, but he hasn't been in the playoffs much lately and hasn't really shown much in terms of "lifting" a team into the playoffs. I kind of seeing him living off of past success similar to Felix Potvin's final few years).

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04-26-2012, 02:14 PM
  #372
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so what do we have to give up u think in order to get him??
I think Colborne, pick and Lombardi would be fair.

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04-26-2012, 02:16 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
My honest guess:

2nd Round Pick, B level prospect, cap dump
This is a real tough spot for Vancouver.

Scheinder has never been a full-time starter. He has looked fabulous in a back-up/occasional starter kind of role the past couple of years. It's a big risk for them to move a proven commodity to give the crease to him.

Do they have another other goalies in their system? Is it possible that they would want Reimer included as a potential safety valve?

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04-26-2012, 02:17 PM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
It was Simmons.

Here is a link.

It explains how the team could potentially treat the final years of the contract.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/25...ptions-limited
I don't know who this "veteran executive" Simmons quotes in the article is, but the thought of buying out the last 4 years of Lou's contract is idiocy. The cap hit is murder for the first four years in that scenario. The likely scenario is retirement, same as all these contracts.

But it is only Simmons..

Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
Well here's the thing...

Burke has consistently said he won't sign guys to those contracts. I don't know if he's mentioned anything about trading for them.

This is also a goaltender, so things are slightly different, especially because this has been a glaring hole in this organization since Belfour left.

Finally Nonis has traded for this guy once, who's to say he won't do it again. I think Luongo could thrive here. While Carlyle plays more defensive, its a far cry from Vancouver's defensive play, Luongo has always played better when he's getting shelled.

I also think it could be a great opportunity for Reimer. He's still young by goalie standards, and not ready to carry the weight of the hardest fan base on his shoulders. Having him play 35 games may be a lot better than having him play 65.
He's mentioned before he might be more open to trading for these kinds of contracts. Took a few google attempts, but found it.

Quote:
The most coveted free agent is centre Brad Richards but at 31, Richards is thought to be seeking a long-term contract. Burke, who has never signed a player for longer than five years is opposed to lengthy front-loaded deals .

Its the contracts where the compensation paid late in the contract is a fraction of what is paid early. I dont believe those players are going to complete those contracts and if thats the case then its cap circumvention.

Burke was more flexible when asked about trading for a player who had that kind of contract.

I still object in principle. I guess at the end of the day and the league said the contract was ok, I guess I would think about it.
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=566439

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04-26-2012, 02:19 PM
  #375
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I don't know who this "veteran executive" Simmons quotes in the article is, but the thought of buying out the last 4 years of Lou's contract is idiocy. The cap hit is murder for the first four years in that scenario. The likely scenario is retirement, same as all these contracts.
Obviously he couldn't be quoted by name because that would run the risk of being hit with a tampering charge.

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