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Luongo To Toronto? Part II

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Old
04-26-2012, 03:35 AM
  #126
Duke Silver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Gigantic? His $10M is already paid out. It's $6.7M in real money until he's 39, $5.333M in cap hit. There are 8 goalies right now getting better than $5.3M

http://capgeek.com/leaders.php?type=...ion=G&limit=25

Goalies tend to have longer primes, look at Brodeur, Hasek, Roy. They aren't skating around and absorbing punishing checks. They are thinking the game better the more experience they get. They don't drop off until their reflexes do. Luongo is going to be that consistent guy for you until he's at least 39, and the last four years are 1.6, 1.6, 1, 1 in real $. He can retire, become a back-up and mentor a younger goalie, or go to a team looking to hit cap floor.
Actual salary doesn't matter one bit to the richest franchise in the NHL. It's all about the cap-hit, which on an annual value is fair, but in terms of length could be very restrictive.

It's for that reason that the king's ransom your fanbase seems to want is not realistic.

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Old
04-26-2012, 03:37 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble View Post
I'm Not sure which goalie the Canucks will trade at this time but either of them will not go cheap, I figure a first rounder this year and another top player off your team.

Gillis and Burke do not see eye to eye so If Burke want one of Vancouver goalie he will have to pay or look else where.

But either goalie Lou or Cory will make Toronto a playoff team
Dream on.

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Old
04-26-2012, 03:38 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble View Post
I'm Not sure which goalie the Canucks will trade at this time but either of them will not go cheap, I figure a first rounder this year and another top player off your team.

Gillis and Burke do not see eye to eye so If Burke want one of Vancouver goalie he will have to pay or look else where.

But either goalie Lou or Cory will make Toronto a playoff team
I don't disagree pertaining to the playoffs.

I do think too much has been made of this Gillis-Burke crap though. Fact is, they are both GMs, trying to do what's best for their team. You put your team first, and your differences after that. Beyond that, Burke most likely won't even be involved in discussions with Gillis (leaves most of that to Nonis once he identifies his target).

Finally - I can see the price going either way. It won't be premium for Luongo, but considering that he's still a top, top goalie, I can see a scenario where there is quite a substantial price required in order to land him.

I can see the other scenario too - where Gillis lets him go for relatively nothing, under the pressure of wanting that contract off his hands. It's been suggested today that Gillis might have to give up an asset AS WELL as the contract in order to have someone take it off his hands; while I don't think it's that far, I think there's fair reason to believe that either/or scenario could happen.

If I'm Gillis, I'm sorting this thing out ASAP, and I'm getting Lou out as quick as possible.

Oh and by the way, your absolutely dreaming if you think Luongo will fetch that price. No chance in my opinion

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04-26-2012, 03:38 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble View Post
I'm Not sure which goalie the Canucks will trade at this time but either of them will not go cheap, I figure a first rounder this year and another top player off your team.

Gillis and Burke do not see eye to eye so If Burke want one of Vancouver goalie he will have to pay or look else where.

But either goalie Lou or Cory will make Toronto a playoff team
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

*Albanian kidnapper voice* Good Luck *Albanian kidnapper voice*

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Old
04-26-2012, 03:39 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Have any of your 15,000 posts offered anything of value and relevance to a thread?
Yes, most of them. But when Canuck fans make assurances about what Luongo will do for us 6 years from now, I get a bit sarcastic.

Is that OK with you?

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04-26-2012, 03:40 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
We like to rip on Burke, (fairly, and unfairly) but there is no way, he will pay more for Luongo now, then what he was worth in his prime.

I've found the Canucks fans flip-flop hilarious.

They run the guy out of town and now tell us how much we have to overpay for a guy they want nothing to do with.
What years would you define as a goalie's prime? Brodeur was .910+ for the past decade until he was 38, and pushing 40 still managed a .908

Look at Luongo's stats, he doesn't drop below .913 after his rookie 1999-2000 season with the Islanders. I don't think this is an unfair comparison between the two. What was Brodeur worth trade value-wise @ 33 years old? We'll never know...

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04-26-2012, 03:43 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Actual salary doesn't matter one bit to the richest franchise in the NHL. It's all about the cap-hit, which on an annual value is fair, but in terms of length could be very restrictive.

It's for that reason that the king's ransom your fanbase seems to want is not realistic.
Does Roberto stick around after he's 39 to pick up his $1.6M per year, $5.2M over four seasons when he had previously been earning $6.7M per? If he's accommodating with Gillis in this trade, why not Burke?

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04-26-2012, 03:44 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
What years would you define as a goalie's prime? Brodeur was .910+ for the past decade until he was 38, and pushing 40 still managed a .908

Look at Luongo's stats, he doesn't drop below .913 after his rookie 1999-2000 season with the Islanders. I don't think this is an unfair comparison between the two. What was Brodeur worth trade value-wise @ 33 years old? We'll never know...
Goalies definitely have longer shelf lives than their other on-ice counterparts, but it's fickle to use stats and such to imply a goalie still has it.

Stats could be more of an indication of the team he plays behind, more than anything else.

A few of the Canucks fans I've spoken too already feel that he's in a bit of a decline. I have no idea because I don't watch the Canucks regularly, but if that's the case, then it makes you wonder whether or not this is a deal we should be touching at all.

Ultimately anyone who picks up Luongo will be doing so via taking a bit of a risk on that contract - there's not a chance he plays through all of it. So what's a good return? 4 years? 5? Is he capable of playing elite up until that point.

Reflexes and sharpness can slow on someone very, very quickly..

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Old
04-26-2012, 03:46 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Does Roberto stick around after he's 39 to pick up his $1.6M per year, $5.2M over four seasons when he had previously been earning $6.7M per? If he's accommodating with Gillis in this trade, why not Burke?
So Burke should make a deal for Luongo based on a gentleman's agreement that at 39, he retires?

The only way that Luongo's contract isn't half as bad as it actually is, is because there's a "chance" he might retire in the next 5-6 years?

I can see why lots of people aren't in favor of getting this guy.

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Old
04-26-2012, 03:46 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
What years would you define as a goalie's prime? Brodeur was .910+ for the past decade until he was 38, and pushing 40 still managed a .908

Look at Luongo's stats, he doesn't drop below .913 after his rookie 1999-2000 season with the Islanders. I don't think this is an unfair comparison between the two. What was Brodeur worth trade value-wise @ 33 years old? We'll never know...
Brodeur never had a ridiculous contract that lasted until he was 43.

He was also arguably the greatest goalie to ever play the game and had 3 Stanley Cups on his resume by the age of 31. Bit of a far-cry from Luongo in terms of value, don't you think?

You're going to have to do better than that.

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Old
04-26-2012, 03:59 AM
  #136
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Is Hanmer Lou's agent by any chance?

Are Toronto on that list ?

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Old
04-26-2012, 04:07 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Is Hanmer Lou's agent by any chance?

Are Toronto on that list ?
No, I wish I'm a fan of Luongo, I'm not happy to see him go. I would rather that they traded Schneider, but that's the way it goes. I'll stay a Canucks fan, but I'll still root for him wherever he goes (better not be Boston or Chicago )

Yes, Toronto and Tampa Bay apparently, the other 3 teams aren't known yet.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=394290

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Old
04-26-2012, 04:09 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Brodeur never had a ridiculous contract that lasted until he was 43.

He was also arguably the greatest goalie to ever play the game and had 3 Stanley Cups on his resume by the age of 31. Bit of a far-cry from Luongo in terms of value, don't you think?

You're going to have to do better than that.
Last year was his first shot at a cup. He certainly wasn't winning any as an Islander or Panther, or with the mess of a team that Nonis left behind. It took a while to dig out of that.

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Old
04-26-2012, 04:30 AM
  #139
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It's going to be weird to see what Luongo fetches. He is arguably a top 5 goalie in the league, so we really haven't seen that type of trade in a while. Vancouver may have to take back some salary because of the 5 mil cap hit, but goalies tend to be undervalued in trades. From the Leafs' perspective I really don't know what you're looking at.

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Old
04-26-2012, 04:57 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Dear Canuck fans:

Dion Phaneuf would instantly join your top pairing and make you a cup favourite. His cap hit isn't that bad. You'll love him. All it will cost you is Schneider, Schroeder and 2-1st round picks.

I don't understand why Gillis doesn't make an offer. All Dion needs is a sleep expert and he'd be the best defenceman in hockey.
I would not even give schneider for dion.

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Old
04-26-2012, 05:25 AM
  #141
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I would not even give schneider for dion.
Please don't tell me you took that seriously.

And hammer are you seriously trying to convince me that Luongo has similar value to Brodeur circa 2005 (age 33), after 3 cups and 2 vezinas? Again, you refuse to acknowledge how cumbersome Luongo's contract is.

You're trying to pass off a Pontiac Sunfire as a Ferrari.

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Old
04-26-2012, 05:34 AM
  #142
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Schenn, Mac, Reimer and a pick for Luongo and Raymond?

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04-26-2012, 05:37 AM
  #143
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Old Vancouver here. I think the mega contract dictates that the Canucks will probably be receiving one of you're bad contracts coming back this way.

I expected that Toronto would be on the list all along, the Nonis connection is strong and the geography works for Luongo as well; Florida and Montreal being the important locations.

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04-26-2012, 05:50 AM
  #144
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If Luongo can play to a high level till 38 and if the price is reasonable, yes.

Think the starting point would be Grabo, Kule, Mac or Franson for Vancouver. No prospects involved.

Vancouver has to deal him, no need to overpay.

If it's Grabo for Luongo, I make this deal. But there are no guarantees we are even at the top of the list or how many teams other than Tampa are involved.

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04-26-2012, 05:58 AM
  #145
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Grabo was just signed to a long term deal. Is that your example of them trading bloated contracts?

Lou's is for 10 yrs, I think Grabo's is for 5yrs or so.

Either way, this would be a stupid deal for Toronto. They have tons of goalies in their system. Why would they even be contemplating a fat contract for a goalie at this point? Their problems are defence and not having enough talent at forward. If they think Grabo and Lupul are going to duplicate last year's play, they're delusional. Kessel disappeared in the last half of the season. They couldn't score. They were praying and relying on the 2nd line most nights.

Their defence was falling apart every night.

Yet, the fans were blaming the goaltending.

I can see Burke doing this deal because he knows how out to lunch the fans are. So easy to dupe.

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04-26-2012, 06:01 AM
  #146
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I've heard dozens of discussions about how Burke would be "going against his word" regarding the length and set up of the contract Luongo currently has.

Can someone please clarify Burkes mandate for me? From my understanding, Brian Burke is simply against OFFERING these circumventing contracts. Acquiring such a contract may be completely on the table.

I'm sure the Toronto Sun already has their news articles written, thrashing Leafs management for "going against their word". This difference could be a big misconception for everyone.

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04-26-2012, 06:05 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Does Roberto stick around after he's 39 to pick up his $1.6M per year, $5.2M over four seasons when he had previously been earning $6.7M per? If he's accommodating with Gillis in this trade, why not Burke?
rumor has it in detroit .....ken holland likes veteran goalies ...he like a crack at luongo ...and hes going hard after suter ...just saying too many good teams with cap space are in the running for the best prizes .....leafs are in for another rough year

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04-26-2012, 06:10 AM
  #148
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Old Vancouver boldly making a second incursion into enemy territory.

You need to see big bucks coming back to make this thing happen.

Luongo+Ballard for Phaneuf+Armstrong might work.

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Old
04-26-2012, 06:14 AM
  #149
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If I'm Mike Gillis, after watching this playoffs and how challenged the Canucks were at scoring. I might be interested in Grabovski.

He's an excellent #3 Center on a contender. This is where he is best slotted as a #3 C not a #2C. Fits into the Canuck system of high tempo hockey that would offset the loss of Hodgson, who they missed after the trade.

It fits on many levels, questionable contract for questionable contract. Need for need.

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Old
04-26-2012, 06:26 AM
  #150
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rumor has it in detroit .....ken holland likes veteran goalies ...he like a crack at luongo ...and hes going hard after suter ...just saying too many good teams with cap space are in the running for the best prizes .....leafs are in for another rough year
So Detroit would have Howard as the backup to Luongo?

Yeah that makes absolutely no sense.

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