HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Is the dead puck era returning?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-26-2012, 05:40 PM
  #26
IceHockeyfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 81
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Once Philly is eliminated, I'd say so.
Philly is still around only because it beat another skilled team, the Penguins. We'll see if it can beat the Hunter Capitals and other defensive teams.

IceHockeyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2012, 10:12 PM
  #27
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 21,519
vCash: 50
If you don't call penalties team are unafraid to commit offenses. Less penalties and more illegal activity.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2012, 11:18 PM
  #28
WingsFan95
Registered User
 
WingsFan95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,848
vCash: 500
I'm copyrighting the name " broken stick era ".

Seriously that's what it is because of all the composites taking over and because the game is less about hooking and more about interference.

Meanwhile goalie pads have been slightly decreased and monitored, so broken sticks all around.

WingsFan95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 12:04 AM
  #29
Manked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,400
vCash: 500
Yes, for sure...

Manked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 01:49 AM
  #30
Neal Before Zod
Registered User
 
Neal Before Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,684
vCash: 500
If Nashville is a trap team, then they do it wrong, and they allow the opposing team into the zone far too easily. Trap teams rely on neutral zone turnovers. Nashville forechecks aggressively. That is not the trap. Just because your team might have trouble exiting the zone DOES NOT MEAN WE ARE PLAYING THE TRAP.



This is NOT our style. Yes, we do employ the trap sometimes. A lot of teams do. I'd go as far as say that most teams do when they are protecting a lead. But to call us a "trap" team is most certainly a misnomer. 1-2-2 is not our MO. We employ 2 forecheckers to press the opposing team into making mistakes. Pure trap teams don't do that.

The neutral zone is far to open in Preds games for us to be a trap team.


Last edited by KevFist: 04-27-2012 at 05:15 AM. Reason: qdp
Neal Before Zod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 08:20 AM
  #31
hatterson
Global Moderator
 
hatterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,369
vCash: 50
Send a message via Skype™ to hatterson
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceHockeyfan View Post
Hi,

I was a fan of the Bruce Boudreau Capitals. The Capitals was entertaining in promoting a run-and-gun style. Ovechkin was allowed to do whatever he wanted and was entertaining as a result. Unfortunatly the Capitals couldn't win with that style. Boudreau was fired and Hunter came in imposing a defensive dump-the-puck style that every other team uses. He got success, getting into the second round, proving that this boring style is the only way to win.

Is this dump-the-puck, crash-the-net style of play the only way that NHL hockey can win on or is there a way for the Boudreau style of play to thrive in the NHL?
This statement annoys me.

07-08 was really their first great offensive year, finishing 3rd in GF in the league. In that year they lost to the Pens in game 7 of the second round. That pens team had been to the cup finals the year before, and went on to win the cup that year. Certainly a disappointing loss, but not a bad one.

The next year (09-10) was their offensive juggernaut year with them scoring 318 goals compared to 272 for the #2 team. In that year they were eliminated by the Habs in the first round in game 7. In that series, specifically games 6 and 7, Washington utterly dominated the Habs, but ran into a goalie who put in a performance of a lifetime. The Caps outshot the Habs 96-38 over the last 2 games.

Then suddenly they couldn't win by being offensive and everything had to change. They scored 94 goals less but allowed only 36 less goals. Their goal differential dropped by 58 goals. They won a first round series mainly because their goalie was phenomenal, but then got swept in the 2nd round. This year they barely made the playoffs.

Sweet they won a playoff series, but they're still no further than they were with their offensive first system. And they were a bounce away from losing in the first round.

__________________
Come join us on the By The Numbers forum. Take a look at our introduction post if you're new. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
hatterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 08:41 AM
  #32
Helm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 88 Broad Street
Posts: 1,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceHockeyfan View Post
Philly is still around only because it beat another skilled team, the Penguins. We'll see if it can beat the Hunter Capitals and other defensive teams.
Orrrr we will see if these defensive teams can stop 4 lines of a team that's faster than them and can run you over and still kick your butt by the end of a series

Helm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 10:21 AM
  #33
thegreaterikku
Registered User
 
thegreaterikku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St-Ambroise
Country: Canada
Posts: 266
vCash: 500
Here's several simple solutions:

01- Remove the offsides which will virtually eliminate the trap and speed up the flow of the game.

02- Bring back hard penalties in goalie crease. No more crash the net in hope to score a goal. You're in the crease, then you're out.

03- Rule 02 will then eliminate the need for goalies to be uber-protected because of player crashing so equipement could be toned down.

04- Bring back pre-lockout goalie rules so good goalies could play the puck anywhere they want. Keep the same actual line since a player would get a penalty if he blatantly hits a goalie between those lines.

05- Promote referees based on grades. So a good referee would have more work than the others. Teams would have a 24h window to note on scale the referees on last game with detailed notes if there was any miss calls and a new group could check it all out and penalize team that are exagerating. Eventually, games would be called like games and not situations like it is right now.

thegreaterikku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 10:25 AM
  #34
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,154
vCash: 800
i dont know , but its equally as boring.maybe we should simply take out coaches in hockey lol

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 10:32 AM
  #35
Neal Before Zod
Registered User
 
Neal Before Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreaterikku View Post
Here's several simple solutions:

01- Remove the offsides which will virtually eliminate the trap and speed up the flow of the game.

02- Bring back hard penalties in goalie crease. No more crash the net in hope to score a goal. You're in the crease, then you're out.

03- Rule 02 will then eliminate the need for goalies to be uber-protected because of player crashing so equipement could be toned down.

04- Bring back pre-lockout goalie rules so good goalies could play the puck anywhere they want. Keep the same actual line since a player would get a penalty if he blatantly hits a goalie between those lines.

05- Promote referees based on grades. So a good referee would have more work than the others. Teams would have a 24h window to note on scale the referees on last game with detailed notes if there was any miss calls and a new group could check it all out and penalize team that are exagerating. Eventually, games would be called like games and not situations like it is right now.
I'm OK with 2-5...but I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of offsides. While it would likely eliminate the trap, you would fundamentally change the game, as players could cherry pick all the way in their own offensive zone, and killing penalties would be a lot more difficult as clearing it across the line would likely not afford you a line change.

To me, rather than just punishing the big bad trap, that's promoting lazy offensive hockey. Might as well institute a shot clock as well.

Neal Before Zod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 10:50 AM
  #36
thegreaterikku
Registered User
 
thegreaterikku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St-Ambroise
Country: Canada
Posts: 266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BourqueBourqueBork View Post
I'm OK with 2-5...but I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of offsides. While it would likely eliminate the trap, you would fundamentally change the game, as players could cherry pick all the way in their own offensive zone, and killing penalties would be a lot more difficult as clearing it across the line would likely not afford you a line change.

To me, rather than just punishing the big bad trap, that's promoting lazy offensive hockey. Might as well institute a shot clock as well.
Cherry picking wouldn't be that much of a problem since that means they are basically leaving their team a man short in their own defensive zone. So while it could work sometimes, it could also hurt your team badly if they can't manage to drive it out of their zone. Just like theses hailmary passes across the rink. Sometime it works but most of the time, it gives a giveaway.

About the penalty issue... well, I would even put minor penalties like major. Full 2 mins. So I really don't mind if a team had to dump it all across the rink to make a line change and not just golfing it in hope it crosses.

thegreaterikku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 11:00 AM
  #37
dookers9
Registered User
 
dookers9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
A ton of obstruction happening now?!! This claim is not even close to being true.

Did you even watch hockey pre-lockout? Now THAT was some serious obstruction.

The game has so little obstruction now - it's the most open and fast game I've ever seen.
It's relative. For sure, there's less obstruction today than there was pre-last lockout. But ease up on the poster. It's also clear that today's hockey sees a lot more obstruction than a couple years ago.

The league needs to make up its mind.

dookers9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 11:46 AM
  #38
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
 
Coach Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,653
vCash: 500
Teams are being overcoached...

I think a great move would be to limit the bench to having one coach only. That may sound stupid to some, but then the players play on their own, mistakes will happen and the play will open up.

One Coach. Thoughts?

Coach Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 12:10 PM
  #39
TheOrganist
Don't Call Him Alex
 
TheOrganist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,003
vCash: 500
Something Hitchcock points out on this subject (which most ignore) is that the game is so much different now relative to pre-lockout because nearly every team employs a ferocious forecheck to create turnovers as opposed to sitting back. (And of course Coach's like Hitch have their players use terrific back pressure to nullify gaps.)

The game is so much faster now cause of the rule changes and it's a "200 foot game" as opposed to a "150 foot game."

The Blues, Coyotes and Kings definitely put a premium on limiting scoring chances and those teams will never be part of firewagon hockey, trading scoring chances, Philly-Pens first round type of games but the manner in which these teams limit those aforementioned chances is much different than what it was 12 years ago.

And there's really nothing "dead puck" about it.

TheOrganist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 12:30 PM
  #40
RedLeader
Registered User
 
RedLeader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,394
vCash: 500
My 2 cents.
Low scoring in dead puck era was mostly due to neutral zone trap, and literally hanging on players entering zones. This combined with better goalie techniques led to low shot totals, and higher goalie save percentage and thus lower goals scored.

Then watching games now, i remember a time when the announcer made a big thing out of a shot block on how not many players would do that. Nowadays , it's very ordinary that all players give up their body for a shot. Teams instead of neutral zone trapping, it's steering the play to the outside letting the perimeter shots get blocked or saved by the goalie. This has led to higher shot totals(low percentage shots) which then leads to record save %.

I don't think obstruction is the main problem, nowhere near infact. It's just too easy for people to blame the refs like the always do for everyhing that happens.

Truth is that very little can be done to discourage teams from the "steering play to the outside" tactic from a legal stand point, the only thing i can think of is increasing the size of the goals.

In short, blocking + perimiter style defending has replaced clutch & grab + trapping.

RedLeader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #41
OK Computer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hollywood
Country: Armenia
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
we need smaller goalie pads ASAP

OK Computer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 12:59 PM
  #42
hatterson
Global Moderator
 
hatterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,369
vCash: 50
Send a message via Skype™ to hatterson
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK Computer View Post
we need smaller goalie pads ASAP
How much do you feel that would increase scoring by?

hatterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 02:48 PM
  #43
NYRKING30
Registered User
 
NYRKING30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,276
vCash: 500
the rinks need to be bigger, too bad the owners would never go for that.

NYRKING30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 02:49 PM
  #44
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK Computer View Post
we need smaller goalie pads ASAP
I say heavier equipment to slow down players, go back to 1980s standard equipment. it probably will increase goal scoring and cut down on injuries

boredmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:27 PM
  #45
IceHockeyfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 81
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreaterikku View Post
Here's several simple solutions:

01- Remove the offsides which will virtually eliminate the trap and speed up the flow of the game.

02- Bring back hard penalties in goalie crease. No more crash the net in hope to score a goal. You're in the crease, then you're out.

03- Rule 02 will then eliminate the need for goalies to be uber-protected because of player crashing so equipement could be toned down.

04- Bring back pre-lockout goalie rules so good goalies could play the puck anywhere they want. Keep the same actual line since a player would get a penalty if he blatantly hits a goalie between those lines.

05- Promote referees based on grades. So a good referee would have more work than the others. Teams would have a 24h window to note on scale the referees on last game with detailed notes if there was any miss calls and a new group could check it all out and penalize team that are exagerating. Eventually, games would be called like games and not situations like it is right now.
Agree with everthing. I would add one more rule. Ban two-line passing to offset the offside rule.

IceHockeyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:32 PM
  #46
IceHockeyfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 81
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BourqueBourqueBork View Post
I'm OK with 2-5...but I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of offsides. While it would likely eliminate the trap, you would fundamentally change the game, as players could cherry pick all the way in their own offensive zone, and killing penalties would be a lot more difficult as clearing it across the line would likely not afford you a line change.

To me, rather than just punishing the big bad trap, that's promoting lazy offensive hockey. Might as well institute a shot clock as well.
If two-line passing is illegal (this includes the red line as a line), then that should offset any cherry-picking due to offside being allowed. Attacking players would still be forced to carry the puck up ice while the defense would not want to risk filling up the neutral zone because there would be no offside rule. The defense will then be forced to fallback or forecheck as the attacking team continues up ice. That promotes good flow and favours skilled teams.

IceHockeyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 08:41 PM
  #47
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,440
vCash: 500
I don't think rule changes will effect anything long term because coaches will still find a way to play boring defensive hockey. IMO the only thing that can be done is reduce the goalie equipment or increase the net size.

Psuhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-28-2012, 02:37 AM
  #48
Soundwave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 28,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
This statement annoys me.

07-08 was really their first great offensive year, finishing 3rd in GF in the league. In that year they lost to the Pens in game 7 of the second round. That pens team had been to the cup finals the year before, and went on to win the cup that year. Certainly a disappointing loss, but not a bad one.

The next year (09-10) was their offensive juggernaut year with them scoring 318 goals compared to 272 for the #2 team. In that year they were eliminated by the Habs in the first round in game 7. In that series, specifically games 6 and 7, Washington utterly dominated the Habs, but ran into a goalie who put in a performance of a lifetime. The Caps outshot the Habs 96-38 over the last 2 games.

Then suddenly they couldn't win by being offensive and everything had to change. They scored 94 goals less but allowed only 36 less goals. Their goal differential dropped by 58 goals. They won a first round series mainly because their goalie was phenomenal, but then got swept in the 2nd round. This year they barely made the playoffs.

Sweet they won a playoff series, but they're still no further than they were with their offensive first system. And they were a bounce away from losing in the first round.
I agree with this. Too many people are impatient these days, a bounce of two their way and Washington might've won the Cup in 09 or 2010, who knows.

I mean, sheesh even the 80s Oilers need about 5 seasons before they won their first Cup.

Soundwave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-28-2012, 02:39 AM
  #49
Soundwave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 28,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceHockeyfan View Post
If two-line passing is illegal (this includes the red line as a line), then that should offset any cherry-picking due to offside being allowed. Attacking players would still be forced to carry the puck up ice while the defense would not want to risk filling up the neutral zone because there would be no offside rule. The defense will then be forced to fallback or forecheck as the attacking team continues up ice. That promotes good flow and favours skilled teams.
This is an interesting idea. I don't think the NHL has the balls to do it though.

Soundwave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-28-2012, 12:56 PM
  #50
Chukcha
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: mongolian steppes
Country: Mongolia
Posts: 868
vCash: 500
The NHL MUST cut a roster off to 12 forwards and 5 defs.
In 80s and early 90s any team had a toughguy line which had just 2-3 minutes of ice time per game. Remaining 3 lines had more ice time, especially first two goal-scoring lines. They were tired more, and the game speed was much lower. High skilled players: a) had more time to make a best decision, b) had less chances to get a concussion. There was the only checking line in the game from each side! And of course it couldn't negate two goal-scoring lines. So best lines of both teams played much against each other. And each of them strived to score more than opponents! Yzerman line played regularly against Roenick line, Lemieux line played regularly against LaFontaine line, and so on.

Now what we see? 4th line is not a toughguy line anymore. Now it becomes a second checking line and has a lot of ice time (usually not less than 3rd). So 4th line becomes an equalizer line. Sid and Ovi don't play against each other. First two lines are fully negated by 3rd and 4th checking lines. They are tired no more than first two lines. And so goal production dramatically decreases because checking power of each team have enough strength to successfully negate opponent's offensive power.
Cutting a roster will increase goal production up to 80s level because superstars will receive a huge amount of ice time and much less checking opposition. And we will get a chance to compare Lemieux and Crosby productivity in fair conditions.

i'm sorry for my ugly english. i hope people understand what i mean.

Chukcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.