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Old
04-27-2012, 09:53 AM
  #26
Everlasting
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Originally Posted by svartgul View Post
Not really, a combined Nordic economy would make us the 10th largest in the world, pretty far from what you could call one of the most powerful "countries".
Actully we would. Scandinavia has excellent geographical location and with norways oil and swedens iron ore we could grow the economy to even higher standards and controll the market alot more. Just with what they found in Kiruna recently. There is potential for it atleast, but our politicans doesnt have the balls to do it. And those norweigans would never share that oil... greedy ******** We should never have let norway go, biggest mistake in history.

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04-27-2012, 10:14 AM
  #27
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1978
khl rules http://www.khl.ru/official/22013/
A player has guaranteed contracts, minimal salary, insurance, arbitration etc. Does it work in Slovakia? No. Does it work in Elitserien? dont know

supermasif
You can not compare Russia and KHL. If KHL was so corrupted, it would not publish this press-release: "Anton Belov is acuse of doping"

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04-27-2012, 10:19 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
1978
khl rules http://www.khl.ru/official/22013/
A player has guaranteed contracts, minimal salary, insurance, arbitration etc. Does it work in Slovakia? No. Does it work in Elitserien? dont know

supermasif
You can not compare Russia and KHL. If KHL was so corrupted, it would not publish this press-release: "Anton Belov is acuse of doping"
Ah, everything is in Russian. That's annoying.

And yes, you can compare Russia and KHL. Why? Because it is a product of Russia. Sadly, you have quite a corrupted system, and rule of law is very weak. Corruption has a tendency to seep into other organizations.

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04-27-2012, 11:03 AM
  #29
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I was under the impression that the maffia was involved with KHL. How much truth is there too this?

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04-27-2012, 11:24 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Robin929 View Post
I was under the impression that the maffia was involved with KHL. How much truth is there too this?
Read "Oligarkerna" by Claes Ericson and you'll get an interesting view on why Russia is the way it is these days.

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04-27-2012, 11:38 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Robin929 View Post
I was under the impression that the maffia was involved with KHL. How much truth is there too this?
we call it prejudice in Slovakia.

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04-27-2012, 11:52 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
we call it prejudice in Slovakia.
Perhaps, but lets face it. After the Soviet Union fell the Russians advocated heavy privatization, which wasn't successful at all. Russia didn't have the institutions to handle this, and many took advantage of it. I'm pretty sure that many of the rich oligarchs that were born out of this have used mafia methods, and we know that some of them have quite a lot of influence over how Russia is governed.

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04-27-2012, 02:41 PM
  #33
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In my opinion a good Champions Hockey League would be a lot better than these massive boring Euro leagues. I really hope that they can make it work some day.

And KHL need to stop expanding. It's ridiculous. How many more teams they need to steal?

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04-27-2012, 06:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Poro24 View Post
And KHL need to stop expanding. It's ridiculous. How many more teams they need to steal?
You act like KHL forces or kidnaps teams from their respective leagues.

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04-27-2012, 06:48 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin929 View Post
Actully we would. Scandinavia has excellent geographical location and with norways oil and swedens iron ore we could grow the economy to even higher standards and controll the market alot more. Just with what they found in Kiruna recently. There is potential for it atleast, but our politicans doesnt have the balls to do it. And those norweigans would never share that oil... greedy ******** We should never have let norway go, biggest mistake in history.
^^ mmmmm oil! yum yum!

Norways oil, Swedens iron ore and finnish vodka woho! What a country Swefiway would have been Btw lets forget Denmark. I dnt understand a word of danish They talk to fast god damn it!

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04-27-2012, 07:09 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
^^ mmmmm oil! yum yum!

Norways oil, Swedens iron ore and finnish vodka woho! What a country Swefiway would have been Btw lets forget Denmark. I dnt understand a word of danish They talk to fast god damn it!
If we have to endure listening to finnish you'd better be diplomatic enough to listen to danish.

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04-28-2012, 12:06 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
reason? hater of Russia?
Defensive too much?

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04-28-2012, 11:25 AM
  #38
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I agree with Vorky. Most Swedes who discuss the KHL have negative views, apparently because of some Russian stigma. The idea of an NHL like league in Europe is amazing, too many people with hard heads in my opinion. If all of the top teams with best arenas + best attendance + best $ play in the same league what greatness that would be. Could compete head on with NHL. Sure you have teams like Bern and Eisbären raking in great success, but they have to play in small leagues against teams who collect 2 thousand spectators, so uneven. Put away politics, let the best hockey come forward.
People ask, why want a team from Nizhny Novgorod to play against team in Sweden? Answer: because they are a club who makes good hockey and could beat most teams in the Swedish league and also uses Swedish players. That's why, good hockey not good politics..

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04-28-2012, 12:27 PM
  #39
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I can say I love Sweden and swedish crown princess but I dont like prejudices. I know Russia is not best country in the world, but saying KHL is APRIORI bad becausse Russians? I dont agree. I like idea of creating european league as best as possible. Why we refuse it before trying to create such league? I dont say this league has to call KHL, but cooperation among Russians-Finns-Swedes must be. Some of you like Champions league idea but not Champions league model withing such league. Do you miss AIK, Brynas etc in Elitserien? No, clubs can skate farm team in Elitserien, no problem.

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04-28-2012, 01:06 PM
  #40
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Stop saying europe, this idea doesnt involve europe, it involves, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Russia, Swizz, Czech and maybe one more country and that would be streching it. The only reason i keep hearing is money, money and money. I dont know about Russia, i can only speak about sweden but here we have something call hockeyculture. Traditions. History. Rivalries. Creating a "european league" would destroy all that. For what? Profit? Better players? It would be a huge blow for swedish hockey and its fans. So not worth it. At all.
We dont care about russia, your teams and its "honest resources". We dont want it. Besides, i can only see 3 swedish teams that have the potential for what you are talking about, that is Frölunda, malmö and Djurgården. They are the ones that could have 10k+ visitors per game. Theoretical that is, it will never happen irl.

I think its cool idea that clubteams from diffrent countries are playing against eachother, but only freindly games and tournament like ET.

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04-28-2012, 01:29 PM
  #41
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Some posts here only show the cultural gap between us, swedes are very individual, we just dont care that much about other countrys.. It doesnt meant that we hate them or their country leaders.. And when you keep bringing up money as your main argument you pretty much lose all respect in the conversation. I know some russians like to think that all countrys would be happy to join them and help them become bigger then the americans but we swedes just simply dont care........ sorry

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04-28-2012, 02:09 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin929 View Post
Stop saying europe, this idea doesnt involve europe, it involves, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Russia, Swizz, Czech and maybe one more country and that would be streching it. The only reason i keep hearing is money, money and money. I dont know about Russia, i can only speak about sweden but here we have something call hockeyculture. Traditions. History. Rivalries. Creating a "european league" would destroy all that. For what? Profit? Better players? It would be a huge blow for swedish hockey and its fans. So not worth it. At all.
We dont care about russia, your teams and its "honest resources". We dont want it. Besides, i can only see 3 swedish teams that have the potential for what you are talking about, that is Frölunda, malmö and Djurgården. They are the ones that could have 10k+ visitors per game. Theoretical that is, it will never happen irl.

I think its cool idea that clubteams from diffrent countries are playing against eachother, but only freindly games and tournament like ET.
it is not only about money. It is like you wrote "hockeyculture, Traditions. History. Rivalries." Did you read my posts? I speak about model of two leagues (divisions) cooperating together. I dont say about only one, two swedish clubs to join KHL. I say about majority of them (5-8). Derbies stays, rivalry as well. No problem. Do you know why Dinamo Riga plays KHL? Dinamo Riga played CCCP league in past, there is history. The same Dinamo Minsk. Barys did not, but kazakh club played it. Slovan Bratislava vs HC LEV Prague - if it was Sparta Prague in czech side, it would be classic derby from past. Still, it will be derby and I like it. So, I dont agree that KHL is not about history, derbies. Nobody says that possible european league would not keep this derby games.

We can raise world class players in Europe, especially in Sweden. We CAN NOT keep them in our league. Why? Because of small salaries, no-prestige of domestic league, weak league. Why not try to change it? I dont say we should keep all of them, but majority. Pro sport is business nowadays, Elitserien does not have power to make money, to keep best players but european league would have. You refuse it, ok.

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04-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #43
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Using buisness and KHL in the same sentense is a blashpemy. KHL is definately not about buisness at this point. Only team that makes money is Riga.

Btw, I think KHL has done some great things to improve quality of hockey in Russia. That's nice. But it's also quite understandable why europeans do not want to join. It's not about buisness and it doesn't seem to be profitanle at all for swerdish teams for example.

Champions league would be nice though. Aswell as a Nordic league IMO.

P.S. Playing farm teams in Elitserien? really? Vorky, you couldn't be more disrespectful to swedish league. The quality gap between KHL and Elitserien is not SO big that KHL farm team would be competative in SEL.

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04-28-2012, 02:58 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Using buisness and KHL in the same sentense is a blashpemy. KHL is definately not about buisness at this point. Only team that makes money is Riga.
You should know why russian clubs are not profitable. It is all about law, nothing else. Euro clubs can make profit in KHL.

Quote:
It's not about buisness and it doesn't seem to be profitanle at all for swerdish teams for example.
reason?

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The quality gap between KHL and Elitserien is not SO big that KHL farm team would be competative in SEL.
of course it is

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04-28-2012, 03:54 PM
  #45
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You should know why russian clubs are not profitable. It is all about law, nothing else. Euro clubs can make profit in KHL.
Law? Russians clubs are not profitable because they spend too much money. And because they don't earn enough. It's that simple. Their owners are not intrested in sports buisness.

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reason?
Any swedish team has it's historical rivalries, derbies etc. If they leave and join KHL, who would watch this?

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of course it is
Of course it is what? The gap is so big or not?

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04-28-2012, 04:12 PM
  #46
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clubs dont own arenas etc. I would not say "Their owners are not intrested in sports buisness."

you dont get my concept. I dont say about one swedish team joining KHL, but majority of Elitserien clubs. Rivarly stays

gap is big

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04-28-2012, 04:15 PM
  #47
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Like we've already mentioned earlier, the KHL is a huge prestige project. You just cannot deny that, vorky. It is far from being a project that is meant to turn a profit. It's basically about megalomaniac people with too much money, wanting their own little playground.

I'd be a little more positive towards cooperation with KHL if there were some kind of transparency, and more information about how exactly things will work if we decided to cooperate. If it is all about large sums of sponsorships from Gazprom and the likes, then... Well, then I don't want a part of it all. It all seems so short sighted.

I have nothing against Russia, although you seem to think so. I like Russia, but I'm not just blindly going to sit here and ignore problems such as corruption. It is a fact that corruption is widespread in Russia, and when corruption reaches the government it tends to seep into other organizations as well.

EDIT: In all honesty, I don't really think that Swedes care if the gap is big or not. People will still turn up for Djurgården vs. AIK, Rögle vs. Malmö, Skellefteå vs. Björklöven, Leksand vs. Brynäs etc even if the lineups consists of amateurs.


Last edited by 1978: 04-28-2012 at 04:23 PM.
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04-28-2012, 05:26 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
clubs dont own arenas etc. I would not say "Their owners are not intrested in sports buisness."

you dont get my concept. I dont say about one swedish team joining KHL, but majority of Elitserien clubs. Rivarly stays

gap is big
All teams are either on state ot state corporation supply. They don't care about profit.

SKA-Gasprom
Avangard-Gaspromneft
Lokomotiv-RZD
Dynamo-VTB
Tractor-Regional supply

etc.

And the gap in quality is not big. Worst elitserien team is better than worst KHL team. And KHL farm team would not be competative in SEL at all. You're confusing Sweden and Slovakia.

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04-28-2012, 06:57 PM
  #49
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let me share my point of view, if the guys dont want to join khl then so be it, i have no problem with it it, ill better stick with old school soviet league like - Latvia Kazakhstan Belarus Ukraine and Russia. We dont need poor clubs to join, right?
Im just like that - let them build nordic league or what ever i dun care...

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04-28-2012, 08:27 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perklunt View Post
let me share my point of view, if the guys dont want to join khl then so be it, i have no problem with it it, ill better stick with old school soviet league like - Latvia Kazakhstan Belarus Ukraine and Russia. We dont need poor clubs to join, right?
Im just like that - let them build nordic league or what ever i dun care...
My problem is that they will say fine, we don't join you and we keep our league same. But if KHL comes in and gives financial support to suffering team in 2nd division (not bothering elite teams), buys all of the best Swedish players builds new arena etc.. The Swedish guys will cry and block that move much like AIK was blocked. In this situation Swedish elite is playing too powerful government and not allowing the free market flow. All of us who know economics know that this leads to economic waste.
If their hockey culture is so great, why not let KHL do as they please, waste money on arena, players, marketing and then fail? Who cares if KHL fails, if it does than they prove KHL is waste. Problem is that they fear the KHL and reject rather than embrace change because they fear it might be better and the federation doesn't want to lose control of top teams..... IMO hard headed guys like Forsberg. Control issues, nothing else.

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