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Old
05-03-2012, 01:18 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by icing View Post
Royal league is not a good example at all. Pre season football games during the winter? Even if I was interested i would not go to the games in -15 degrees.
Wasn't supposed to be a pre season tournament, it became one because nobody cared.
If people were interested they would made better time for it in the schedule.

Royal league had roughly the same attendance as a normal pre season game, the fans weren't interested in if the played a top nordic team or some random team 3 tiers down.

You should try it, were over 4000ppl at a game in -14 a couple of months ago.

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05-04-2012, 02:58 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by supermasif View Post
I seriously don't see a future for the KHL. The league is like a glass house, a prestige project that will crumble once those in charge get tired of spending money on it. Just saw the attendance figures for KHL games the other day, surprisingly bad.
IIHF wrote average attendance of KHL: 5,891
KHL wrote its average attendance: 6135

best euro league: 6,385

it is not so bad for KHL if you consider number of teams. It is growing up: 5298 (08/09)– 5671 (09/10) – 6066 (10/11) – 6135 (11/12, consider no Lokomotiv with great attendance)

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05-04-2012, 10:08 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
IIHF wrote average attendance of KHL: 5,891
KHL wrote its average attendance: 6135

best euro league: 6,385


it is not so bad for KHL if you consider number of teams. It is growing up: 5298 (08/09)– 5671 (09/10) – 6066 (10/11) – 6135 (11/12, consider no Lokomotiv with great attendance)
I'd be nice if you'd mention that the league with the highest attendance in europe, the league so desperate to become a farm league to your great KHL is Elitserien

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05-04-2012, 10:15 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by svartgul View Post
I'd be nice if you'd mention that the league with the highest attendance in europe, the league so desperate to become a farm league to your great KHL is Elitserien
you dont understand it. Some of Elitserien clubs would join KHL, some would stay.

btw, Elitserien´s attendance dropped in 2010/11, KHL´s is raising all the time, no decline like in Elitserien.

name me swedish clubs which are building new 15 000+ arenas. I would like to know it. I can name you KHL clubs: Dynamo Moscow, CSKA Moscow (20 000+), Torpedo, Donbass Donetsk, Novokuznetsk. All of them play at max 5-7000 arenas now. We can mention HC LEV which is relocated to Prague (17 000 arena), last season in Poprad (4500) and Slovan as newcomer with 10 000+ arena.


Last edited by vorky: 05-04-2012 at 10:20 AM.
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05-04-2012, 10:31 AM
  #80
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Oh you're cute. You can't build huge fancy arenas where's not people around to fill them and support it's existence. We're building new arenas all the time.

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05-04-2012, 10:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by svartgul View Post
Oh you're cute. You can't build huge fancy arenas where's not people around to fill them and support it's existence. We're building new arenas all the time.
I really want to know swedish arenas under constraction for 15000+ seats.

You say, there is not interest in Swedish, but it IS in KHL..

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05-04-2012, 11:05 AM
  #82
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Everything ain't about big flashy arenas and a crowd sitting down drinking beer and eating pocorn in soft and fancy seats..

This is more how it should be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuU1bVxEAAc

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05-04-2012, 11:12 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Glory View Post
Everything ain't about big flashy arenas and a crowd sitting down drinking beer and eating pocorn in soft and fancy seats..
ok, but it say about interest of fans. Attendance in KHL is growing all the time, not in Elitserien. Maybe all your arenas are sold-out all the time. So you need to build new one.

I just replied to a guy who claimed there is not fans interest in KHL. That all. HC LEV Poprad, as team with no rivarly to russian clubs, had attendance above 95-98%. No problem to sold arena. We will see how attendance is in Prague/Bratislava next season.

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05-04-2012, 11:38 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
ok, but it say about interest of fans. Attendance in KHL is growing all the time, not in Elitserien. Maybe all your arenas are sold-out all the time. So you need to build new one.

I just replied to a guy who claimed there is not fans interest in KHL. That all. HC LEV Poprad, as team with no rivarly to russian clubs, had attendance above 95-98%. No problem to sold arena. We will see how attendance is in Prague/Bratislava next season.
What about ticket prices then? To me that is much more interesting. Large crowds mean nothing in this case if ticket prices are set really low just to fill the arenas (which I suspect is the case with some clubs).

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05-04-2012, 11:53 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svartgul View Post
I'd be nice if you'd mention that the league with the highest attendance in europe, the league so desperate to become a farm league to your great KHL is Elitserien
The only thing desperate is your attempt to give your attendance argument any credibility. How can you make such a claim, the puny SEL is barlely a conference let alone a league When you have 27 teams then you can talk. Vorky is right, Look at any attendance figure is comparison to SEL: Line up top 12 KHL Clubs next to SEL clubs and you will see that KHL kills SEL. Look at growth, look at total attendance - this one is an absolute landslide! Please get out of here with your attendance arguments because you will lose.


Last edited by malkinfan: 05-04-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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05-04-2012, 12:01 PM
  #86
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Also while were on the attendance issue, Vorky raises good points. While you guys tread with mediocrity, over in Russia there are many new arena projects and lots of marketing efforts to bring exposure and growth to the game - this is why attendance will continue to grow into the future.

Teams like Minsk and SKA are teams that operate closest to NHL clubs in all of Europe. SKA has a 12k arena and yet they will still build a newer bigger one. Sochi's new arena, the 02 arena in Prague, new planned arena in Donetsk... Come back here in 2014, we'll talk average attendance.

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05-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
The only thing desperate is your attempt to give your attendance argument any credibility. How can you make such a claim, the puny SEL is barlely a conference let alone a league When you have 27 teams then you can talk. Vorky is right, Look at any attendance figure is comparison to SEL: Line up top 12 KHL Clubs next to SEL clubs and you will see that KHL kills SEL. Look at growth, look at total attendance - this one is an absolute landslide! Please get out of here with your attendance arguments because you will lose.
just want to add total numbers of KHL (including play-offs):
2008/09 - 3 884 000
2009/10 - 4 219 000
2010/11 - 4 289 000
2011/12 - 4 319 000

it is +11,19% (or +435 000 fans) since 2008/09. As you can see, it is growing every second year, no regress. Yes, Russia (+ KHL countries) is much bigger market than Sweden.. and it is all about. Nowadays is PROFI sport about bussiness (NOT ONLY but you have to care about it, not only ask sponsors to give some bucks). I dont know how revenues KHL has but I am sure it is much bigger than slovak league, NLA, SEL or so. KHL is broadcasting to 26 countries or so, including NA (and Brasil ). Can we see games of czech league/SEL in NA? I dont think so. Of course, you have two choices - to stay NHL farm league or create strong euro league.

No offence, could someone write total numbers of attendance in SEL/SM-Liiga etc? I would like to compare it with KHL. Maybe these leagues are much better. Who knows?


Last edited by vorky: 05-04-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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05-04-2012, 01:25 PM
  #88
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Captain Obvious has been here, and that's always pleasant, I guess. Most KHL clubs are of course going to have higher attendances, that does not surprise me at all. If we are going to talk about different factors, then we can take population into the question, and the KHL clubs all have more people to market their product to. Thus it is easier to achieve high attendances, and I'm pretty sure you all know this already. Now, let us add in another factor, ticket prices. As far as I know they differed widely (with some having extremely, and laughably low prices) between the clubs just a year or two ago. I've sadly been unable to find current information.

The "Oh, you are not building +15000 stadiums" is a laughable stance. Let us just quote my fellow Skellefteå AIK-supporter:

Quote:
Originally Posted by svartgul
Oh you're cute. You can't build huge fancy arenas where's not people around to fill them and support it's existence. We're building new arenas all the time.

Vorky, Malkinfan and other fans of KHL expansion say that it will create a stronger league in Europe, and further the popularity of hockey. I agree that this could create more popularity for hockey in some smaller markets, but on the whole I'm very afraid of what it could do to other 'larger' and more established markets such as Sweden and Finland. Why? Well, it is simple. Like I, and many others have said before, the club itself is more important to the Swedish supporter. I'm confident that most would rather watch their teams play against their rivals and be dirt poor, than to expand with KHL, leaving a farm league that no one would be interested in. I'm afraid that it would kill Swedish hockey. KHL is a great project, but mostly for the former Soviet countries.

Now, naturally, you guys do bring up a few points that are troublesome, for example the fact that the NHL takes our players for peanuts. However, I'm quite confident that we're already on our way to getting better compensation for each player, and like Hockeyfrilla I'm confident that we'll soon have a new four year agreement. As it stands right now, yes, I'd much rather stay as a farm league to the NHL. That does not bother me at all.

So, Vorky and Malkinfan, go and create your amazing huge KHL-led superleague, 'cause I don't want any part of it. We're fine without you.


Last edited by 1978: 05-04-2012 at 02:07 PM.
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05-04-2012, 01:48 PM
  #89
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1978

seems you dont get the point. SEL would be the same (maybe less clubs) as part of KHL (conference or so). You still would play against your rival teams, plus a few extra games against finnish clubs or so. It would not hurt your hockey, I see only positives.

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05-04-2012, 02:02 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
1978

seems you dont get the point. SEL would be the same (maybe less clubs) as part of KHL (conference or so). You still would play against your rival teams, plus a few extra games against finnish clubs or so. It would not hurt your hockey, I see only positives.
No, Vorky you're the one who doesn't get the point.
Swedes, Swedish teams and the Swedish federation are not interested in joining KHL or in anyway being part of any European league.

And before your start yapping about arenas, attendance and money.
Find out what the "51% rule" is and how it works, that alone will give you a single argument which makes this idea impossible.

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05-04-2012, 02:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
1978

seems you dont get the point. SEL would be the same (maybe less clubs) as part of KHL (conference or so). You still would play against your rival teams, plus a few extra games against finnish clubs or so. It would not hurt your hockey, I see only positives.
It seems like you don't get the point. You only look for profits, and thus my, and many other smaller clubs would be thrown away for larger clubs. Surely you must understand why I fear for this development? As the system works these days there's still a possibility for smaller clubs to grow and grab a spot in the SEL, but that would be killed off if we joined the KHL. Killing smaller teams of would create quite a negative trend, trust me.

Thinking that all Swedes will magically start to follow two or three teams in the KHL is laughable, and shows that you don't understand the sports culture in Sweden.

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05-04-2012, 02:36 PM
  #92
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Thinking that all Swedes will magically start to follow two or three teams in the KHL is laughable
I am not saying it, try to read one more time

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05-04-2012, 03:03 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I am not saying it, try to read one more time
Why did you say this then in a different thread?

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nothing. Club not involved in KHL would play domestic league as before. Look at Slovan case. Club will join KHL and rest teams of slovak league will play extraliga like they do know. Maybe one newcomer. Level of play will be the same. Slovan will not change its developming system - kids, youth, juniors will play slovak leagues of appropriate age category. Best juniors can make Slovan´s roster to play better league. Is it bad? If Slovan creates MHL team in future, it will be good for developing. MHL is better than slovak U20 league. Bad for you?

I can imagine the same scenario in Czech rep, Sweden, Finland. I dont believe it happens in north europe but I dont see negatives. Developing system will be the same, only one or more senior clubs will play KHL. These clubs can play Elitserien as well. Non-russian KHL club does not have to build MHL team if you dont know.
Basically, you mean that one or two teams would join the KHL, and the rest of the national league would act as a farm league.

Honestly, we've seen earlier that the KHL is not interested in creating a conference with many Swedish or Finnish teams. It'll be a conference based on teams in the largest cities of mainland Europe. In reality, the KHL only wants to rival the NHL, and it is a prestige project which is largely subsidized by the state. It is a gigantic castle in the air if you ask me.

I'm out.

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05-04-2012, 03:05 PM
  #94
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whats the problem of creating a new team like hc Lev? And locate them somewhere in Stockholm ))

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05-04-2012, 03:08 PM
  #95
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one more time, you dont get the point.
You copy my post where I speak about KHL´s attitude. It is not my opinion. Here I am speaking about another model - my opinion

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05-04-2012, 03:17 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by perklunt View Post
whats the problem of creating a new team like hc Lev? And locate them somewhere in Stockholm ))
I hope that would work legally if KHL was independent (like NHL) as projected. Another story is fanbase. Our swedish friends claim it would not work, so we have to believe them. Of course, they dont have a proof for claiming it. I have a proof it works in Europe.. look at HC LEV Poprad (see next season Slovan, HC LEV), EBEL league - average attendance is growing last years.

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05-04-2012, 03:54 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by perklunt View Post
whats the problem of creating a new team like hc Lev? And locate them somewhere in Stockholm ))
There are lots of problems, would take hours to explain the issues.
But vorky and his friends who clearly don't know anything about Sweden and Swedes, think it's the easiest thing in the world.
That's why it'll never happen and why it's a pointless discussion
I don't try to explain to a Russian how things i Russia work, because i don't know. But vorky seems to think that he knows everything about Sweden and Swedes, and that's why people bash him.

Maybe ignorance is a bliss...

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05-04-2012, 04:01 PM
  #98
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But vorky seems to think that he knows everything about Sweden and Swedes,
I DO NOT claim it

btw rivarlies are everywhere not only in Sweden...

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05-04-2012, 04:30 PM
  #99
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would be great if you show respect to me and other people who dont share your opinion. it is human right, you know. I just want SEL become better league than it is now.. you dont want it, your choice

No offense.. do you know why there is champion league in soccer? because european leagues cooperate and hockey? no such league because european leagues DO NOT (want to) cooperate I am sure it is bad for euro hockey.

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05-04-2012, 04:44 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
AE
would be great if you show respect to me and other people who dont share your opinion. it is human right, you know. I just want SEL become better league than it is now.. you dont want it, your choice
If you have an opinion about something and you want to discus it, it's best to have arguments supporting it.

It won't make the SEL better and you don't seem to know why/understand that, and that's why your getting bashed in this thread.

The champions league has the best teams in the world, people like to watch the best players play.
The KHL does not have the best players, neither does Sweden or any other league who could be in this "Euro league"

The champions league has been around since (under other names) 1955, that's 57 years to create rivalry's and to cement it as a important competition.


Last edited by AE: 05-04-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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