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Downie could have been a Leaf

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Old
04-26-2012, 01:28 PM
  #26
theLongR0D
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Does Ashton have a NTC?

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04-26-2012, 01:29 PM
  #27
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Actually, Cox is only relaying a part of that day's discussions .Apparently, Raffi Torres was also available...missed out on another one I guess.

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04-26-2012, 01:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Downie was traded Feb 21st, 6 days before Aulie for Ashton happened. I know not all trades are talked about the day they are done, but this seems a bit out there.
It's not inconceivable that Yzerman/Burke talked about this prior to the Downie trade. There was video a long time ago of Bryan Murray and Lou Lamoriello discussing a Sykora/Friesen trade at the 2002 Draft with Murray sounding confident that it would get done. The trade wasn't completed for another two weeks.

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04-26-2012, 01:31 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
What Burke did by acquiring Ashton for Aulie was take the strength from the backend, and turned into a forward. We needed size up front, Downie doesn't bring size, he just brings grit. Ashton brings grit, size, and some offensive skill.
I'm not talking about Downie.

I'm talking about Aulie - like I said when the deal was made, it didn't make sense to me.

1 - You are heading into a summer where you NEED to make trades for centers/goalies, etc.

2 - You have limited number of assets that you would be willing to trade.

3 - Keith Aulie is one of them, and your priority = center + goalie

4 - Why not hold pat on your key assets and then use them in the off-season in order to try and land your priorities?

5 - I'm sorry, but Ashton is not one of this team's priorities or gaping holes.

It didn't make sense to me then, and it doesn't make sense to me now

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04-26-2012, 01:31 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Does Ashton have a NTC?
Nope.

Neither does Keith Aulie.

Where are you going with this?

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04-26-2012, 01:34 PM
  #31
KlattNazty
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
1 - How far away is Ross from the NHL? It's cool that some people around here can simply name prospect's names without knowing anything about them.

2 - In order to be a tougher team to play against, you don't necessarily need bigger players. But tougher players. On nights when Darcy Tucker was on his game, the Leafs all looked a few inches bigger than when he wasn't in the lineup.
not as far as you seem to be implying. he will be in the AHL next year and we could be seeing him after that. you are thinking purely short term.

2 - i never said you had to, but you do need some god damn size on the walls to cycle effectively hence why ashton makes sense.

and 3, im glad you think you know everything when for some reason our GM agrees with my thoughts.

I would take Ashton over Downie in that trade again.

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04-26-2012, 01:41 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Ashton's offensive upside is so much higher then Downie's. Don't have room for Downie right now either. Where would he have played?
I actually think Downie has higher offensive upside then Ashton. That's not to say I think Downie is going to score ppg numbers, but more so I don't think Ashton's offensive game is that great.

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04-26-2012, 01:44 PM
  #33
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Burke is on a rat free diet

i would rather have Ashton anyways

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04-26-2012, 01:45 PM
  #34
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After getting a good look at Ashton, I'm disappointed with the trade to be honest. Ashton's upside isn't very promising. He looks like he's at least 2 years away and even then, he won't have any upside above playing on the 3rd line.

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04-26-2012, 01:47 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
After getting a good look at Ashton, I'm disappointed with the trade to be honest. Ashton's upside isn't very promising. He looks like he's at least 2 years away and even then, he won't have any upside above playing on the 3rd line.
He clearly was not ready for the NHL. It's too bad about that stupid 4 call-up rule, we had infinitely better options on the Marlies.

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04-26-2012, 01:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
I'm not talking about Downie.

I'm talking about Aulie - like I said when the deal was made, it didn't make sense to me.
What?

Getting a power forward type forward is, and was more important for us than a center. Bozak between Kessel in Lupul isn't really great, but it's good. Plus, we've got a couple of center prospects with top 6 potential, who can fill that void that in the near future.

That line doesn't need much to be good.

Physicality on the other hand is a different story. Our team is full of soft ass pansies. Our biggest need is size and grit. We got destroyed every time we faced a physical team because we don't have any. We couldn't even put up a fight.

Our biggest need now is a couple of forwards with size. Other than Ashton, Ross and Biggs are the only two prospects we've got, and those guys are not close to making it to the big leagues.

Burke got exactly the kind of player this team needed.

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04-26-2012, 01:54 PM
  #37
KlattNazty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
What?

Getting a power forward type forward is, and was more important for us than a center. Bozak between Kessel in Lupul isn't really great, but it's good. Plus, we've got a couple of center prospects with top 6 potential, who can fill that void that in the near future.

That line doesn't need much to be good.

Physicality on the other hand is a different story. Our team is full of soft ass pansies. Our biggest need is size and grit. We got destroyed every time we faced a physical team because we don't have any. We couldn't even put up a fight.

Our biggest need now is a couple of forwards with size. Other than Ashton, Ross and Biggs are the only two prospects we've got, and those guys are not close to making it to the big leagues.

Burke got exactly the kind of player this team needed.
yup.

ashton needs another year in the AHL, and he too needs to add some meat to the frame, but hopefully next year will be a better indicator of his future

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04-26-2012, 01:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Does Ashton have a NTC?
No, but he does have waiver exemption for a couple more years. Aulie, not so much.

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Old
04-26-2012, 01:59 PM
  #39
Tak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
What?

Getting a power forward type forward is, and was more important for us than a center. Bozak between Kessel in Lupul isn't really great, but it's good. Plus, we've got a couple of center prospects with top 6 potential, who can fill that void that in the near future.

That line doesn't need much to be good.
I have to disagree with that.

The idea that a 24 year old power forward prospect, is more important to this team right now than a franchise goalie or center, is ludicrous.

Burning an asset on a power forward winger, was more important than packaging an asset for a goalie or a center?

Ashton doesn't get this team into the playoffs.

An upgrade in net gets this team into the playoffs.

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04-26-2012, 02:02 PM
  #40
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I like the move for Ashton over downie, though losing Aulie was a stinger. Organizationally (Marlies and Junior), Ashton is a need that we had whereas with Downie we have a few similar guys developing already. While we didn't get any points from Ashton and he certainly needs more seasoning, I really like what I saw from his effort level and his game down low.

He may never become a top 6 forward but I think he's got promise as a bottom 6 winger and help us generate offense with a great forecheck.

I wish that Aulie had worked out but it seems the emergence of Gardiner more or less made Aulie irrelevant here so we had to fill an organizational need elsewhere.

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04-26-2012, 02:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
No, but he does have waiver exemption for a couple more years. Aulie, not so much.
Once it became clear that Gardiner won the job over Aulie we had to ship him out. Can't waive him after this year.

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04-26-2012, 02:04 PM
  #42
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Would have loved Downie on the team.

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Old
04-26-2012, 02:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Since when does Cox have any inside information?
I call BS.
My thoughts exactly. Not saying it's Cox's own BS, more likely a source with an agenda.

Kyle Quincey, Steve Downie and a late 1st round pick are a different level of asset than Keith Aulie and Carter Ashton.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba Ganoush View Post
that makes one of us.

who knows if this is true or not...but if it is, Burke is a tool.
Ashton was wholly unremarkable. His long audition suggested to me that someone at MLSE believes a lot in this acquisition. However, the lone attribute I saw was his corner work, everything else was invisible.

There has to still be some off-ice issues with Downie. Aggressive, physical wingers with offensive skills are rare commodities that teams usually are reluctant to trade.

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04-26-2012, 02:09 PM
  #44
Tak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
I like the move for Ashton over downie, though losing Aulie was a stinger. Organizationally (Marlies and Junior), Ashton is a need that we had whereas with Downie we have a few similar guys developing already. While we didn't get any points from Ashton and he certainly needs more seasoning, I really like what I saw from his effort level and his game down low.

He may never become a top 6 forward but I think he's got promise as a bottom 6 winger and help us generate offense with a great forecheck.

I wish that Aulie had worked out but it seems the emergence of Gardiner more or less made Aulie irrelevant here so we had to fill an organizational need elsewhere.
I'm not sure Gardiner's progression really had anything to with Aulie.

Numerically, it did - his roster spot went to Gardiner. But they were 2 very different types of players.

At some point between him not making the starting day roster, and being sent down to the Marlies and struggling, to the deadline, the team really turned sour on Aulie. For someone they thought so highly of last season, it seems odd that they would have moved him.

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04-26-2012, 02:12 PM
  #45
Tak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post


Ashton was wholly unremarkable. His long audition suggested to me that someone at MLSE believes a lot in this acquisition. However, the lone attribute I saw was his corner work, everything else was invisible.

There has to still be some off-ice issues with Downie. Aggressive, physical wingers with offensive skills are rare commodities that teams usually are reluctant to trade.
I had the same assessment of Ashton during his final third in the NHL. Pretty much unremarkable. Again though, way to early to be judging the kid. I won't lie though - I'm concerned about the trade; often, even if it's just raw latent ability, you can see things with prospects. I didn't see much other than strong board play.

Of course he came into a team that was playing so poorly too, so that can't be overlooked.

Good point on Downie's attitude - definitely something there that seemed to be problematic that I think a lot of people, including myself, have overlooked.

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04-26-2012, 02:12 PM
  #46
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You have to take the proven commodity over the unknown prospect every time.

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04-26-2012, 02:13 PM
  #47
DirtyDion03
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Can people please realize Ashton stayed up because of the emergency call up rule after the deadline?

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04-26-2012, 02:15 PM
  #48
LeafsYoungGuns
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
I have to disagree with that.

The idea that a 24 year old power forward prospect, is more important to this team right now than a franchise goalie or center, is ludicrous.

Burning an asset on a power forward winger, was more important than packaging an asset for a goalie or a center?

Ashton doesn't get this team into the playoffs.

An upgrade in net gets this team into the playoffs.
Carter Ashton just turned 21 not 24.

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Old
04-26-2012, 02:20 PM
  #49
Tak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTotalPackage View Post
You have to take the proven commodity over the unknown prospect every time.
Keith Aulie - 40 career NHL games.

Carter Ashton - 15 career NHL games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Can people please realize Ashton stayed up because of the emergency call up rule after the deadline?
...? Where are you going with this?

How is this at all relevant with the current discussion?

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04-26-2012, 02:39 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
I'm not talking about Downie.

I'm talking about Aulie - like I said when the deal was made, it didn't make sense to me.

1 - You are heading into a summer where you NEED to make trades for centers/goalies, etc.

2 - You have limited number of assets that you would be willing to trade.

3 - Keith Aulie is one of them, and your priority = center + goalie

4 - Why not hold pat on your key assets and then use them in the off-season in order to try and land your priorities?

5 - I'm sorry, but Ashton is not one of this team's priorities or gaping holes.

It didn't make sense to me then, and it doesn't make sense to me now
I guess it doesn't make sense to you because you are stuck on the fact that Ashton can also be traded just like Aulie. Their recent trade suggests they have the same value. The difference is if he is not traded he might turn into the type of player we need. Aulie would have to be amazing to make the Leafs any time soon, even if we traded a few defensemen.

I get that you liked Aulie, I did to, I thought his size would look great on our blue line in the future. But if he wasn't in our plans it makes sense to get a player with a better chance of making the team that covers a greater need, size at forward.

Dion, Liles, JG, Schenn, and maybe Franson constitute the future core of our blue line. Komi is gone at first opportunity and Gunnarson will likely be kept unless he is pushed out of a job. Holzer, Blacker and Percy are our top defender prospects, so finding a spot for Aulie is kind of hard. The move really made a great deal of sense if Ashton makes the team and is useful in the next year or two.

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