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Markham Arena II

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Old
08-07-2012, 01:46 PM
  #276
beaverbrook
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I wonder if there is not an opportunity here for Rogers or Bell to divest from MLSE ownership in lieu of territorial rights + $ to bring another franchise to T.O. I'm not sure how the majority stake of MLSE is split between the two entities but as media companies another team here would certainly be lucrative (gate+merchandise+media). Probably just splitting the same pie but if a team is to come..............

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08-07-2012, 01:58 PM
  #277
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Seeing the Long Island thread right underneath this one is quite ironic. Long Island is fighting for the upgrades needed to keep their team there and Markham is fighting for an NHL arena with no team to put in it.

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08-07-2012, 04:33 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Hamilton is about an hour & half to 2 hours away from Markham & no one from Hamilton , Kitchener\Waterloo area & the rest of southwestern Ontario would support an NHL. there because it is too far & last time I checked Hamilton , The KW. area & southwestern ontario are the largest unserved NHL market in canada not Markham who just wants to further inflate the ego of Toronto (GTA.) at the spite of everyone else in southern ontario .
You are served by the Leafs. Suck it up!

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08-07-2012, 09:01 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
You are served by the Leafs. Suck it up!
Spoken like a true person that is from Toronto (GTA.) & to answer your question Hamilton is not served by the leafs in fact the Hamilton area is its own market & NHL. team in Hamilton would just not serve Hamilton but the niagara region , southwestern ontario & some parts of the gta. which adds up to around 8 million unserved NHL. fans . One last thing not every one in the Hamilton area are all leafs fans in fact the area is divided between the Leafs , Sabres , Canadians & Red Wings not exactly a hardcore leafs market & if the leafs did serve this market you would think they would hold some pre season & nuetral site regular season games here but they don't so suck on that .

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08-07-2012, 09:16 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Seeing the Long Island thread right underneath this one is quite ironic. Long Island is fighting for the upgrades needed to keep their team there and Markham is fighting for an NHL arena with no team to put in it.
... ya, thats for sure. And if you add them all up, from Jersey to Arizona, Long Island to Sunrise, really makes you wonder WTF is going on. Im all for & support the aforementioned markets, but c'mon here, the league would be a Hell of a lot stronger with the cash registers ringing in Quebec, Markham & Hamilton, Seattle, Portland & Houston than without. Either cash those Expansion Checks or start re-shuffling the deck already.

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08-07-2012, 10:15 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... ya, thats for sure. And if you add them all up, from Jersey to Arizona, Long Island to Sunrise, really makes you wonder WTF is going on. Im all for & support the aforementioned markets, but c'mon here, the league would be a Hell of a lot stronger with the cash registers ringing in Quebec, Markham & Hamilton, Seattle, Portland & Houston than without. Either cash those Expansion Checks or start re-shuffling the deck already.
My comment wasn't meant to be pro-Markham team, lol, it was just an observation that I found funny and ironic.

On the topic, I don't want that arena built unless it's 100% funded privately. I don't support politics investing taxpayers money into projects that are questionable financial ventures. The Markham community can be better served with that money going towards projects that actually benefit the city and its residents. They can privately build their arena and hope really hard that they get an NHL team but that's the only way I'll find this project acceptable.

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08-07-2012, 11:22 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
They can privately build their arena and hope really hard that they get an NHL team but that's the only way I'll find this project acceptable.
... I see. Do you actually live in Markham?.

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08-08-2012, 01:52 AM
  #283
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... I see. Do you actually live in Markham?.
I don't but I have family that lives there. And does it really matter? I've seen public opinions that are very similar to my own. There is a very understandable concern for residents. The city has to borrow money to build the arena and only half of it will be reimbursed through private funds. The city expects to recover costs through arena revenue. Are you kidding me? They can seriously put the thought of an NHL team out of their heads. Absolutely no way they can factor in potential revenue from an NHL team anytime in the near future. So what are you left with? An entertainment facility....being that I live in Toronto and some ways closer to Markham than you are in Vancouver, I can tell you that clients aren't banging on Markham Town Hall's doors and saying 'we desperately want to put on a huge show here in Markham but you just don't have an accomodating facility for us'. It is a poorly thought out plan. It's a horribly thought out plan. Not saying that something like this couldn't work for Markham at some point in the future, but it can't work for the city now. This isn't Field of Dreams. Just because you build it doesn't mean they will come.

I'm too lazy to read through this thread but if anyone has posted the happenings of the town meetings and the recaps from residents regarding what transpired, no one in good conscious could say that this project doesn't sound shady.

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08-08-2012, 06:46 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I don't but I have family that lives there. And does it really matter? I've seen public opinions that are very similar to my own. There is a very understandable concern for residents. The city has to borrow money to build the arena and only half of it will be reimbursed through private funds. The city expects to recover costs through arena revenue. Are you kidding me? They can seriously put the thought of an NHL team out of their heads. Absolutely no way they can factor in potential revenue from an NHL team anytime in the near future. So what are you left with? An entertainment facility....being that I live in Toronto and some ways closer to Markham than you are in Vancouver, I can tell you that clients aren't banging on Markham Town Hall's doors and saying 'we desperately want to put on a huge show here in Markham but you just don't have an accomodating facility for us'. It is a poorly thought out plan. It's a horribly thought out plan. Not saying that something like this couldn't work for Markham at some point in the future, but it can't work for the city now. This isn't Field of Dreams. Just because you build it doesn't mean they will come.
I thought the city was recovering its investment through higher developer fees on new homes. That seems like a far more stable revenue source than hopeful future arena revenue. Or am I wrong on this?

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08-08-2012, 10:27 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Thats where your wrong I do not have any sense entitlement mentality & by no means a spokesman for the city of Hamilton & just stateing the fact that Hamilton makes more economic sense to put a 2nd NHL. team in southern ontario given that Hamilton is in a centrelized location that can serve just not the Hamilton area but the Niagara region & southwestern Ontario thats where the demand is not Toronto (GTA.) . On the topic of sense of entitlement mentality Toronto (GTA.) has had that kind of mentality since forever they think they should have everything from an NFL. team , a Casino , 2nd NHL. team ect. & everybody else should just accept it & even somtimes pay for it & that is why everybody outside of Toronto (GTA.) hates them .
If Hamilton makes economic sense then they will get a team. Money talks and if I was betting on it I would put my money on Markham over Hamilton.

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08-08-2012, 11:15 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... ya, thats for sure. And if you add them all up, from Jersey to Arizona, Long Island to Sunrise, really makes you wonder WTF is going on. Im all for & support the aforementioned markets, but c'mon here, the league would be a Hell of a lot stronger with the cash registers ringing in Quebec, Markham & Hamilton, Seattle, Portland & Houston than without. Either cash those Expansion Checks or start re-shuffling the deck already.
The problem in Houston is the NHL can only go through 1 guy and he ain't interested.

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08-08-2012, 11:32 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by syc View Post
If Hamilton makes economic sense then they will get a team. Money talks and if I was betting on it I would put my money on Markham over Hamilton.
I would not count on Markham getting a NHL. team if they bulid that arena because if any of the pro Markham people read the canadian confrence boards report it clearly states that Hamilton & Quebec City are the only cities left in Canada that can support & maintain an NHL team & a 2nd team in Toronto (Markham) would be difficult do to costs & territory rights not to mention Markham dose not have the infostructure to support an NHL. team . So in the end my money is on Quebec City , Hamilton , Seattle will get NHL. teams before a 2nd team put in Toronto (GTA.) if they ever do because Markham has a lot to do besides building just an arena like build up there infostructure ect. before they even think about the NHL. .

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08-08-2012, 12:40 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
How many times to I have say this the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is on the western side of lake Ontario in places like Hamilton , Kitchener\Waterloo , Niagara region & the rest of southwestern Ontario not Toronto (GTA.) they only want a team to inflate there own ego & try be like a New York or a Los Angeles which they are not Toronto is more like a hybrid of Chicago & Philadelphia not the best cities to compared to . There is no way they will get any one from Hamilton , The KW. , Niagara region & the rest of southwestern Ontario to support a TO2 team in Markham hell they would have tough enough time trying convert hardcore leaf fans to the 2nd banana Toronto team in the GTA. alone . I think in the end all markham is going to have is a 400 million dollar white elephant of an arena that has no garrentee of any kind of a permanent tenent that it will be years before that arena sees any kind of a profit .
A Markham arena would be Copps Coliseum 2. The power brokers would stop any NHL team from relocating there. It just seems like a really stupid idea.

The only way I see a team moving to southern Ontario is if an owner buys a team out of bankruptcy and builds an arena 10 miles west of Copps Coliseum so it's outside of Toronto's 50 mile radius.

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08-08-2012, 04:14 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
A Markham arena would be Copps Coliseum 2. The power brokers would stop any NHL team from relocating there. It just seems like a really stupid idea.

The only way I see a team moving to southern Ontario is if an owner buys a team out of bankruptcy and builds an arena 10 miles west of Copps Coliseum so it's outside of Toronto's 50 mile radius.
I agree in order for a 2nd NHL. team to come to southern ontario there has to be an arena bulit in comermised location that it won't in fringe on any so called terriorty rights that MLSE. & the Sabres have in southern ontario . Such cities I have in mind are Cambridge , Ancaster & Kitchener Waterloo & all 3 are out of MLSE. & Sabres territory & call the team Ontario ??????? in my opinion the perfect compermise for southern ontario NHL. fans .

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08-08-2012, 05:13 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
I agree in order for a 2nd NHL. team to come to southern ontario there has to be an arena bulit in comermised location that it won't in fringe on any so called terriorty rights that MLSE. & the Sabres have in southern ontario . Such cities I have in mind are Cambridge , Ancaster & Kitchener Waterloo & all 3 are out of MLSE. & Sabres territory & call the team Ontario ??????? in my opinion the perfect compermise for southern ontario NHL. fans .
I am going to reserve the domain names makeitten.ca, makeit3.ca

You keep talking about a 2nd Southern Ontario team I think we should be talking 2nd and 3rd.

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08-09-2012, 04:47 AM
  #291
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Quote:
GTA Sports and Entertainment chairman Graeme Roustan presented the GTA Centre LP’s application for the proposed $325-million project to Mayor Frank Scarpitti at the Markham Civic Centre on Wednesday.

“We’re excited to submit the site plan application … because it means we’re one step closer to getting final approval and putting shovels in the ground,” Mr. Roustan said.

The building, like all those in Markham Centre, will be LEED certified, meaning it meets energy and environmental standards.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08...markham-arena/

Video of the interview with Roustan: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402561

Also, per the Globe and Mail, the architect of the arena is BBB Architects. The contractor will be PCL Construction. The same two firms designed and built the ACC.

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08-09-2012, 12:24 PM
  #292
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Looks like a puck.

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08-09-2012, 01:13 PM
  #293
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Looks better than Edmonton's proposed arena. Still can't see how it's viable.

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08-09-2012, 01:27 PM
  #294
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The canadian confrence board of canada's report said a 2nd NHL. team in the GTA. is not viable do to the cost involved & MLSE. opposition to a 2nd NHL. team in the area . Say if they build this arena that is one of many huge hurdles to overcome namely the other costs involved could reach over 700 million dollars when you include territory rights the team its self & other costs it is simpley no viable & I doubt GTA. sports entertainment group can or will pay that kind of money for an NHL. team .

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08-09-2012, 01:32 PM
  #295
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I think the question is do they think the arena is viable without an anchor tenant. I don't see how it could be with the ACC 30 minutes away.

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08-09-2012, 01:48 PM
  #296
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Cody Hodgson is licking his chops to request another trade & play in his hometown.... or is it his dad?

Hopefully this gets done.

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08-09-2012, 02:08 PM
  #297
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Looks better than Edmonton's proposed arena. Still can't see how it's viable.
Golden Horseshoe has 9 million people and only two major arenas, one of which (Copps) is in a less central location. The new arena may not make ACC-like profits without a lead NHL tenant, but in suggesting it's not viable I think you vastly underestimate the size of the city. The ACC can't handle the full demand for arena events as it is, and on top of that there are at least couple million people in the north and east parts of the GTA for whom the Markham arena would be more convenient than heading downtown and would attend more events, so this arena will be enlarging the total "live arena events" pie in multiple ways.

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08-09-2012, 02:52 PM
  #298
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Golden Horseshoe has 9 million people and only two major arenas, one of which (Copps) is in a less central location. The new arena may not make ACC-like profits without a lead NHL tenant, but in suggesting it's not viable I think you vastly underestimate the size of the city. The ACC can't handle the full demand for arena events as it is, and on top of that there are at least couple million people in the north and east parts of the GTA for whom the Markham arena would be more convenient than heading downtown and would attend more events, so this arena will be enlarging the total "live arena events" pie in multiple ways.
Markham far from a centralized location in fact it is probley the worst place in the GTA. to put an arena of that size & caliber not to mention Markham dose not have the infrastructure to handle an NHL. team . Hamilton on the other hand is perfect centrelized location that can be easely accessble for people comming in from the Niagara region , southwestern Ontario & some parts of the GTA. not to mention Copps Coliseum is about 15 miniutes away from Hamilton International Airport & being located in downtown Hamilton where there are plenty of bars \ resturaunts to go to before & after the game & a mall\hotel that is basicly conected to Copps Coliseum .

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08-09-2012, 04:13 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Semantics View Post
Golden Horseshoe has 9 million people and only two major arenas, one of which (Copps) is in a less central location. The new arena may not make ACC-like profits without a lead NHL tenant, but in suggesting it's not viable I think you vastly underestimate the size of the city. The ACC can't handle the full demand for arena events as it is, and on top of that there are at least couple million people in the north and east parts of the GTA for whom the Markham arena would be more convenient than heading downtown and would attend more events, so this arena will be enlarging the total "live arena events" pie in multiple ways.
The ACC can easily handle the demand. Currently the ACC holds 180 ticketed events per year. Compare that to 250 for the Staples Centre - an arena that has the logistical nightmare of 2 basketball teams and a hockey team. The ACC is not overbooked. I doubt they miss out on touring acts or can't add extra shows. I digress.

There are numerous examples of publicly funded stadiums built in the suburbs that turn out to be dogs. What makes anyone think this project is so different? If there really was a demand the developer would fund this instead of putting all the risk on the city. Personally I don't buy it. I think we've seen enough half baked arena schemes to realise that publicly funded arenas rarely work. You only have to look at the debacle that is Skydome to appreciate that it can happen in Toronto as well.

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08-09-2012, 11:52 PM
  #300
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There are numerous examples of publicly funded stadiums built in the suburbs that turn out to be dogs. What makes anyone think this project is so different? If there really was a demand the developer would fund this instead of putting all the risk on the city. Personally I don't buy it. I think we've seen enough half baked arena schemes to realise that publicly funded arenas rarely work. You only have to look at the debacle that is Skydome to appreciate that it can happen in Toronto as well.
They aren't putting all the first on the city, only half. If the City (formerly Town) of Markham was putting up $325 million I would agree. At $162.5 million that's a different story. I can see it working at that price.

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