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Markham Arena II

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Old
08-31-2012, 09:40 AM
  #376
Major4Boarding
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Wasn't sure if anyone saw this or not. If old news, my apologies.

Quote:
Critics say Markham arena financing may put taxpayers at risk
Noor Javed
Staff Reporter


A key element of Markham’s financial plan to pay for half of its $325 million arena project could be resting on thin ice.

A significant component of the city’s plan to cover its $162.5 million share of the NHL-size facility relies on developers paying a “special levy” to help pay for the 20,000-seat arena — a contribution that would be in addition to development charges already required to pay to build in this booming city.

But the problem with the arena levy is that it is not voluntary and has not followed the process outlined in the Development Charges Act. Before a development charge can be added or amended, the act requires municipalities to provide a background study on the proposal, hold a public meeting on the issue and then enact a bylaw.

Critics fear the voluntary nature of the levy means it can’t be enforced and that failing to follow the mandated process could open it to a legal challenge from developers.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/city...payers-at-risk

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Old
08-31-2012, 01:27 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Well its possible that the Leafs would take less money if it was Hamilton vs Markham. Assuming they had any actual say in the matter. I am not sure how much the Sabres would demand. I am just speculating. If I was the Leafs I would rather have a team in Hamilton in a refurbished Copps than to see a new arena rise in Markham.
The Sabres absolutely do NOT have territorial rights to Hamilton.

Territorial rights extend 50 miles (80 km) from an existing NHL city's corporate limits to any potential arena within that area. Copps Coliseum is not within 50 miles of Buffalo's corporate limits.

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08-31-2012, 04:22 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Wasn't sure if anyone saw this or not. If old news, my apologies.



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/city...payers-at-risk
The mayor was on Fan 590 today and they asked him about that and he said that law doesn't really apply because that law is for stuff like infrastructure supporting the development involved.

He said they have collected $5 million since April. He also said there are 3 more public meetings. A site plan approval, a financing plan approval, and final approval.

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09-14-2012, 12:29 PM
  #379
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Foundation work could start at arena

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With the promise of three additional public meetings, October and November will be busy months, filled with public meetings, with the goal of having shovels in the ground by February 2013 and building completion by the end of 2014.

The sub-committee is planning three more public meetings than required under the Planning Act.

“We don’t want to be accused of using the Planning Act to avoid meetings,” Regional Councillor Jack Heath said. “Let’s make this clear, there is no change to the process. We’re just adding more meetings for residents. But after all the meetings, if I’m still not happy, I’ll send it back.”
Quote:
In order to complete construction by the end of 2014, with a target opening of January 2015 for the 2015 World Junior Hockey Championship, council may grant conditional permit approvals for foundation and servicing work prior to an official site plan approval.
http://www.yorkregion.com/news/artic...N9O9c8.twitter

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09-14-2012, 03:36 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
The Sabres absolutely do NOT have territorial rights to Hamilton.

Territorial rights extend 50 miles (80 km) from an existing NHL city's corporate limits to any potential arena within that area. Copps Coliseum is not within 50 miles of Buffalo's corporate limits.
The two 50 mile radii would intersect, so in effect you need to be 100 miles away.

Each team is supposed to have an exclusive 50 mile radius around it.

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09-18-2012, 10:20 PM
  #381
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Looks like the arena is going to be built. Roustan leaving his position with Bauer, in order to focus on the GTA arena.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/18...-arena-project

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09-19-2012, 01:37 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Looks like the arena is going to be built. Roustan leaving his position with Bauer, in order to focus on the GTA arena.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/18...-arena-project
fancy white elephant

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09-19-2012, 01:49 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
fancy white elephant
I agree, smells like Copps...

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09-19-2012, 04:32 PM
  #384
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Roustan is wastting his time & money on a white elephant of an arena that may or may not get bulit & Dosen't GTA. sports entertainment group realize that MLSE. will never let another NHL. team take root there because there well within the 50 mile radius territory of MLSE. unless they pay them an astronomical fee in the range of 250 million dollars . Its not good business sense to build an arena of this size without a long term tennant garenteed & there is no garrentee that the NHL. team playing there & let me tell you somthing the cost of a bringing second NHL. team there is beyond makking any economic sense because it would cost over a billion dollars to make happen & in this econmy not going to happen . I know some people will say Copps Coliseum is white elephant but it that is not the case because when Copps was built there was a garentee of a NHL. team comming to Hamilton & the reasons why Hamilton did not get a team where not because of territory it was because Harold Ballard wanted the city to build & fund a new stadium for the Tiger Cats & the city said no , Seymore Knox just wanted Hamilton to remain open just in case buffalo did not work out & then would have a cheap move to Hamilton so Harold Ballard & seymore knox decided to blackball Hamilton & it has worked up to this very day .

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09-19-2012, 04:55 PM
  #385
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If by some chance this arena get bulit they will be waiting for years for an NHL. team & thats if MLSE. lets them have team also they would have to be willing to pay a huge price that is more than any current NHL. team is worth even the leafs .

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09-20-2012, 02:03 AM
  #386
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Maybe this guy knows something you don't. Build the arena and when the time is right (like within 5 years) either have a relocation to this new arena or get a brand spankin' new expansion team for $300 or so million. The issue with TML (if they can actually present one) would probably be resolved with a $50 - $100 million territorial fee. Overall about $650 - $700 million (not all of which will be paid by the private sector) for a team that should generate $140 - $150 million per season (with operating profits of $30 - $40 million) plus the other ancillary benefits that come owning an arena (ie. concerts).

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09-20-2012, 06:38 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Maybe this guy knows something you don't. Build the arena and when the time is right (like within 5 years) either have a relocation to this new arena or get a brand spankin' new expansion team for $300 or so million. The issue with TML (if they can actually present one) would probably be resolved with a $50 - $100 million territorial fee. Overall about $650 - $700 million (not all of which will be paid by the private sector) for a team that should generate $140 - $150 million per season (with operating profits of $30 - $40 million) plus the other ancillary benefits that come owning an arena (ie. concerts).
There could be many different deals with MLSE that would make this work. The new team is going to have to make a broadcastcast deal with Bell and Rogers. The new team would also more than likely get some of the National broadcast games. which in turn would create more regional games available for the Leafs. Since all money earned from national broadcasts are split between all 30 teams, MLSE would love to have more regional Leaf games where they keep all the broadcast money.

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09-20-2012, 06:49 AM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Maybe this guy knows something you don't. Build the arena and when the time is right (like within 5 years) either have a relocation to this new arena or get a brand spankin' new expansion team for $300 or so million. The issue with TML (if they can actually present one) would probably be resolved with a $50 - $100 million territorial fee. Overall about $650 - $700 million (not all of which will be paid by the private sector) for a team that should generate $140 - $150 million per season (with operating profits of $30 - $40 million) plus the other ancillary benefits that come owning an arena (ie. concerts).
You work for TJ Hocking don't you?

I also find it curious how it is that MLSE would have a problem with a team in Hamilton, but not with one in Markham and that for some reason a team in Hamilton would have to pay MORE in territorial fees than a team in Markham....

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09-20-2012, 06:52 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
You work for TJ Hocking don't you?

I also find it curious how it is that MLSE would have a problem with a team in Hamilton, but not with one in Markham and that for some reason a team in Hamilton would have to pay MORE in territorial fees than a team in Markham....
Markham or Hamilton probably makes little difference to Bell /Rogers. Buffalo however may have a large problem with Hamilton and the NHL will move heaven and earth to protect Buffalo.

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09-20-2012, 07:13 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Markham or Hamilton probably makes little difference to Bell /Rogers. Buffalo however may have a large problem with Hamilton and the NHL will move heaven and earth to protect Buffalo.
One of the great myths of the BoH. A team in Hamilton would have minimal impact on Buffalo, especially when you consider how few Sabres STH are Canadian and how little media presence Buffalo has in the Golden Horseshoe...

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09-20-2012, 07:39 AM
  #391
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One of the great myths of the BoH. A team in Hamilton would have minimal impact on Buffalo, especially when you consider how few Sabres STH are Canadian and how little media presence Buffalo has in the Golden Horseshoe...
There was talk about a condition when Buffalo was bought out of bankruptcy a few years ago. The condition being the NHL would never allow a team in Hamilton. Sorry no link so you don't have to take it as fact. However I do.

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09-20-2012, 10:42 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
You work for TJ Hocking don't you?

I also find it curious how it is that MLSE would have a problem with a team in Hamilton, but not with one in Markham and that for some reason a team in Hamilton would have to pay MORE in territorial fees than a team in Markham....
That dose not make any sense that Hamilton would have to pay more in teritory fees to MLSE. than markham because Hamilton is much furthier away from Toronto than Markham .

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09-20-2012, 11:19 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
There was talk about a condition when Buffalo was bought out of bankruptcy a few years ago. The condition being the NHL would never allow a team in Hamilton. Sorry no link so you don't have to take it as fact. However I do.
... ya, I seem to vaguely recall a rumour of such, however, with a new & obviously enlightened owner in Buffalo, Im not so sure he/they would be adverse at all to teams in either Hamilton and or Markham; while in Toronto, I'd be somewhat surprised if in fact the NHL didnt insist that Rogers-Bell accept & sign-off on a clause of acceptance & compliance in dropping former MLSE's ownerships positions on territorial rights (to within reason of course); and as you & others have pointed out, the additional content opportunities are tremendous, indemnification fee's more than welcomed, actual "harm" at the gate to the Leafs and the ACC negligible. Id even go further & suggest it would in fact be a huge boon to them, from the immediate local rivalries 2 new teams would bring to the market, broadcast & new media revenue streams, merchandising sales, the works.

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09-20-2012, 11:41 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Wasn't sure if anyone saw this or not. If old news, my apologies.



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/city...payers-at-risk
Why am I not surprised?

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09-22-2012, 07:58 AM
  #395
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Arena plans moving along just fine.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhlers-...0091--nhl.html

Excerpt from the article below.

The fact is, with an NHL team, the companies owned by those men will stand to make far more money than they would without a big-league tenant. You don’t suppose Snider and Jacobs would be in favor of a struggling market relocating to the most fertile hockey market on the planet, do you? And you’d have to think Jacobs and Snider could rally far more board of governors support for a team in Toronto than the Maple Leafs could muster to oppose the move.

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09-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #396
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I think this is more relevent of an excerpt....

"" The venue manager just happens to be Global Spectrum, which is a subsidiary of Comcast-Spectacor, which is a company owned by Philadelphia Flyers owner Ed Snider. The food and beverage provider is none other than Delaware North Companies, which just happens to be the property of Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs.

So you have the chairman of the NHL’s board of governors (Jacobs) and one of the most influential and powerful members of the league’s executive committee (Snider) now doing business with an NHL-sized rink in the most underserviced hockey market in the world.""



lots going for this now and case for 2nd team in GTA...

- Jacobs / Snider AKA Bettman's puppet masters
- Leafs now owned by content hungry Media corporations
(territory fee include part of broadcast rights in lieu of cash ?)
- No impact to Buffalo compared to Hamilton
- 4th Highest concentration of Head Offices in the country
- Roustan steps down from his job to build arena
- Roustan has solid NHL owner connections


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09-22-2012, 12:55 PM
  #397
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this thing is gonna happen !!

even Bettman's Puppet masters have a piece of the action...

plus the Leafs are now owned by content hungry media corporations.
maybe the territorial fee will include some broadcast rights in lieu of cash ?!?!

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09-22-2012, 01:47 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL View Post
plus the Leafs are now owned by content hungry media corporations.
maybe the territorial fee will include some broadcast rights in lieu of cash ?!?!
... welcome to HF Boards, and yes, it sure looks like they've got it all figured out. The only question remaining is relo or expansion? Expansion would make more sense as the NHL will receive those fee's unencumbered. If it was my call, I'd be going after the double header, adding Hamilton at the same time.

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09-22-2012, 03:28 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL View Post
I think this is more relevent of an excerpt....

"" The venue manager just happens to be Global Spectrum, which is a subsidiary of Comcast-Spectacor, which is a company owned by Philadelphia Flyers owner Ed Snider. The food and beverage provider is none other than Delaware North Companies, which just happens to be the property of Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs.

So you have the chairman of the NHL’s board of governors (Jacobs) and one of the most influential and powerful members of the league’s executive committee (Snider) now doing business with an NHL-sized rink in the most underserviced hockey market in the world.""



lots going for this now and case for 2nd team in GTA...

- Jacobs / Snider AKA Bettman's puppet masters
- Leafs now owned by content hungry Media corporations
(territory fee include part of broadcast rights in lieu of cash ?)
- No impact to Buffalo compared to Hamilton
- 4th Highest concentration of Head Offices in the country
- Roustan steps down from his job to build arena
- Roustan has solid NHL owner connections

Markhams chances of getting an NHL. team even if they build this arena is pretty slim because MLSE. will demand huge money for them to give up there teritory to the area somewhere around 250 million on top of what the team will cost which could be around 400 million dollars & good luck in trying to find someone who is willing to sink 600-700 million dollars into hockey team . Hamilton is a booming city right now with condos , hotels , new stadium being bulit , posible casino ect. all the momentum is in Hamiltons favor right now & with Global spectrum & Live nation takking over Copps Coliseum Hamilton is in far better position to land a NHL. than its ever been in years .

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09-22-2012, 05:07 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Markhams chances of getting an NHL. team even if they build this arena is pretty slim because MLSE. will demand huge money for them to give up there teritory to the area somewhere around 250 million on top of what the team will cost which could be around 400 million dollars & good luck in trying to find someone who is willing to sink 600-700 million dollars into hockey team . Hamilton is a booming city right now with condos , hotels , new stadium being bulit , posible casino ect. all the momentum is in Hamiltons favor right now & with Global spectrum & Live nation takking over Copps Coliseum Hamilton is in far better position to land a NHL. than its ever been in years .
Saying this several times does not make it so.

It will more likely be $50 - $100 million for the rights to play in the GTA and around $300 million for a franchise, possibly less if it's a relocated franchise. With the cost of the arena, the total will be around $650 -$700 million. This is well worth it considering the NHL franchise will pull in $140 - $150 in revenues per season plus tens of million more from other events staged at the arena each year.

As for Hamilton being a "booming city" lets keep things in perspective. Condos and hotels are going up in all the major cities in Canada, in most cases to a greater degree than in Hamilton. Right now, one of the big things working against Hamilton is lack of hotel space in the downtown area. Why would the NHL want to come there when they don't even have adequate hotels downtown?

Also, who is going to spend the $150 million to refurbish a nearly 30 old building to make it suitable for NHL hockey? City council ****** up the stadium issue for years, no reason to have faith in them.

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