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Markham Arena II

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Old
09-21-2013, 10:38 AM
  #651
Ryan34222
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i doubt the spin-off theory ... the money is in the arena. it always has been and always will be. ACC is one of the most profitable buildings in Canada, revenues extending well beyond hockey events.

without the new owner of GTA2 signing away full broadcast rights to MLSE, and coughing up nine figures in indemnification fees to MLSE, nobody currently associated with MLSE is ever going to support a second arena being built in town for that second team, whether it's Bell or Rogers (or even David Thomson who could just forego a year of dinners at auberge du pommier or canoe and have enough to buy the team and build his own arena) who wants it. a second team, sure, that's possible - at the right price. but not a second arena.

not even the wacky mr. bettman is going to jeopardize his golden MLSE egg by granting another team that would undercut ACC arena profitability. you think MLSE was prepared to fight a hammer franchise at the BoG table? hah! that's nothing compared to what they'd go to to fight a second arena.

the only way GTA2 becomes a reality is if it also plays in ACC.
That's a better way of saying it.

Also, Maybe if That blue and white team produced a competitive team year after year they'd be a little more open to another team in SO with no fear of fanbase jumping ship.

Still can't believe people follow that team.

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09-21-2013, 02:38 PM
  #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
That's a better way of saying it.

Also, Maybe if That blue and white team produced a competitive team year after year they'd be a little more open to another team in SO with no fear of fanbase jumping ship.

Still can't believe people follow that team.
No fear at all. The Leafs fanbase will stay, the new team will create its own. Very few diehards.

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Old
09-21-2013, 07:21 PM
  #653
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No fear at all. The Leafs fanbase will stay, the new team will create its own. Very few diehards.
Nah they're worried. If they allowed another team in SO theyd have to ice a competitive team or lose fan base. Pretty sad there holding this massive area hostage and not giving back.

Like I said how anyone outside of Toronto can be fans of this organisation/team is beyond me..

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09-22-2013, 06:08 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
Nah they're worried. If they allowed another team in SO theyd have to ice a competitive team or lose fan base. Pretty sad there holding this massive area hostage and not giving back.

Like I said how anyone outside of Toronto can be fans of this organisation/team is beyond me..
The leafs may be worried about lots of things, not having a significant excess of fans, ain't one of them. Leaf nation is a juggernaut and I suspect that a lot of the fan base of gta2 will have a similar mindset as you do, its not like past management didn't disillusion literally generations of fans.

Arguing whether the leafs have to worry about anyone is like arguing whether water is, or is not, wet.
You can do it, but rational people know its not worth the effort.

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09-22-2013, 12:49 PM
  #655
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Are you serious? Markhams been doing this and the arena hasnt even been approved in a vote by Council? You sure youve got that right aqib?
Yes I am serious. Developers have been paying fees for every house or condo they build in Markham. As someone later in this thread pointed out ONE developer put up $4 million.

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09-22-2013, 01:45 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL View Post
I know one developer happily paid 4 million in April of 2012 for the Upper Unionville project alone.

http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story...ect-kicks-off/

I can't remember where I read it, but i'm sure about a year ago the mayor stated they had 12 million in the fund at that time.
So they could be over $50 million by now. If they aren't allowed to reallocate the money to other things they might wind up going forward with it

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09-22-2013, 08:35 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
The leafs may be worried about lots of things, not having a significant excess of fans, ain't one of them. Leaf nation is a juggernaut and I suspect that a lot of the fan base of gta2 will have a similar mindset as you do, its not like past management didn't disillusion literally generations of fans.

Arguing whether the leafs have to worry about anyone is like arguing whether water is, or is not, wet.
You can do it, but rational people know its not worth the effort.
Past generations didn't have the access to other winning teams like they do know correct?

My point, was MAYBE the Leafs would've been more open to a second team in SO if they were a juggernaut on the ice.

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09-22-2013, 10:25 PM
  #658
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Past generations didn't have the access to other winning teams like they do know correct?

My point, was MAYBE the Leafs would've been more open to a second team in SO if they were a juggernaut on the ice.
Well the Rangers had the Islanders come in and win the Cup 4 years in a row, but eventually that fan base dwindled even though the Rangers didn't win until 94. There is enough overflow for a Markham team and a Hamilton team to thrive.

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09-22-2013, 11:03 PM
  #659
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True, the Leafs would obviously still be ridiculously profitable should Markham get a team, but you have to imagine that they'd be terrified of the prospect of getting shown up by the newcomers winning a championship before they do, a la the Ducks and the Kings and the Isles and the Rangers.

Regardless, the Leafs will be the most popular and profitable team in the GTA, but the idea of a Markham team winning a championship before they end the Cup drought has to be a terrifying thought to management and ownership.

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09-23-2013, 09:05 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
True, the Leafs would obviously still be ridiculously profitable should Markham get a team, but you have to imagine that they'd be terrified of the prospect of getting shown up by the newcomers winning a championship before they do, a la the Ducks and the Kings and the Isles and the Rangers.

Regardless, the Leafs will be the most popular and profitable team in the GTA, but the idea of a Markham team winning a championship before they end the Cup drought has to be a terrifying thought to management and ownership.
management is more concerned with the well-being of the corporation than with success on the ice. your scenario is embarrassing, of course, but as long as mlse continues to print money (including leveraged revenues from GTA2 by way of indemnification negotiations) all will still be fine. by playing the genesis strategically, mlse would actually stand to make a lot more money if GTA2 won the cup than if the Leafs did.

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09-30-2013, 06:19 PM
  #661
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Lets face facts MLSE. will never allow a 2nd NHL. team to take root in the GTA. not because it would hurt the leafs nothing can hurt the leafs but MLSE. owns the Raptors & Marlies which will be hurt by 2nd NHL. team may even be killed because all of them play at the same time . What Toronto needs is not another NHL. sized arena but a new 30,000 seat football stadium for the Argonauts that can be also be used for concerts. & would be also cheaper about half the cost of an arena . Lets face facts people an NFL. team & 2nd NHL. team in Toronto are never going to happen & if Roustan is smart he would be looking to build a 30.000 seat football not a another hockey arena & think about this the Leafs would & Marlies would be able to host an outdoor game .

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10-04-2013, 11:26 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
True, the Leafs would obviously still be ridiculously profitable should Markham get a team, but you have to imagine that they'd be terrified of the prospect of getting shown up by the newcomers winning a championship before they do, a la the Ducks and the Kings and the Isles and the Rangers.

Regardless, the Leafs will be the most popular and profitable team in the GTA, but the idea of a Markham team winning a championship before they end the Cup drought has to be a terrifying thought to management and ownership.
not only winning a championship. imagine the new team picking up a Crosby type player..
we are talking about MLSE here. they fought tooth and nail to keep a team out of SO and now they are owned by 2 companies that just spent millions (rather than drop rates for users )on ads to keep Verizon out of Canada..

even if they lose 1 percent of the fan base to this new team. they wont like that

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10-04-2013, 09:56 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
not only winning a championship. imagine the new team picking up a Crosby type player..
we are talking about MLSE here. they fought tooth and nail to keep a team out of SO and now they are owned by 2 companies that just spent millions (rather than drop rates for users )on ads to keep Verizon out of Canada..

even if they lose 1 percent of the fan base to this new team. they wont like that
However, as I stated out in the other thread ... if the NHL pushes for a team in the GTA, they i.e. MLSE, could make the best out of the situation by insisting that they play at the ACC to block the construction of a competing arena (for other events) in Markham, and for benefits of having a premium tenant for at least 44 additional dates plus those two companies, being broadcast giants and majority owners of MLSE will benefit from having additional content for their broadcasting business that would appeal to the people who reside in the largest hockey market in the world.


Last edited by Betamax*: 10-04-2013 at 10:10 PM. Reason: i.e. MLSE
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10-05-2013, 08:18 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
not only winning a championship. imagine the new team picking up a Crosby type player..
we are talking about MLSE here. they fought tooth and nail to keep a team out of SO and now they are owned by 2 companies that just spent millions (rather than drop rates for users )on ads to keep Verizon out of Canada..

even if they lose 1 percent of the fan base to this new team. they wont like that
Unless, they're getting some other sort of kickback.

TV Rights seems to be the popular and primary reasoning as to why Bell and Rogers might be more willing to accept a second Southern Ontario team than their predecessors.

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10-05-2013, 09:36 AM
  #665
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However, as I stated out in the other thread ... if the NHL pushes for a team in the GTA, they i.e. MLSE, could make the best out of the situation by insisting that they play at the ACC to block the construction of a competing arena (for other events) in Markham, and for benefits of having a premium tenant for at least 44 additional dates plus those two companies, being broadcast giants and majority owners of MLSE will benefit from having additional content for their broadcasting business that would appeal to the people who reside in the largest hockey market in the world.
I get what your saying but With ACC being one of the busiest arenas in NA. Not sure they'd want another 40 games hosted there.. Maybe Markham should build an arena MLSE can give the Raptors the boot and bring in a second team. Markham can have the Raps.

TBH I don't know what would pissed me off more a second team in Markham or one in Toronto proper. I don't believe either options serves SO.


Last edited by Ryan34222: 10-05-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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10-05-2013, 09:39 AM
  #666
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Unless, they're getting some other sort of kickback.

TV Rights seems to be the popular and primary reasoning as to why Bell and Rogers might be more willing to accept a second Southern Ontario team than their predecessors.
Just not buying it. Both are far to greedy. I think they're both happy force feeding the leafs onto the good honest people of southern Ontario. Torontonians excluded of course

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10-05-2013, 10:38 AM
  #667
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not only winning a championship. imagine the new team picking up a Crosby type player..
we are talking about MLSE here. they fought tooth and nail to keep a team out of SO and now they are owned by 2 companies that just spent millions (rather than drop rates for users )on ads to keep Verizon out of Canada..

even if they lose 1 percent of the fan base to this new team. they wont like that
Maybe off-topic but did Verizon's attempt to get into Canada fall through? I was thinking of switching to Verizon because I go to Canada a lot and hope to move back in a year or so, but if they aren't getting in its pointless.

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10-05-2013, 11:57 AM
  #668
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Maybe off-topic but did Verizon's attempt to get into Canada fall through? I was thinking of switching to Verizon because I go to Canada a lot and hope to move back in a year or so, but if they aren't getting in its pointless.
Last I heard was Verizon won't be entering the market at this time. I don't think they were scared off it was a new investment of some type in the US that changed their minds.

I was hoping they would.

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10-05-2013, 03:42 PM
  #669
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Unless, they're getting some other sort of kickback.

TV Rights seems to be the popular and primary reasoning as to why Bell and Rogers might be more willing to accept a second Southern Ontario team than their predecessors.
Both Bell and Rogers have said, on separate occasions, that their ownership of the MLSE is all about broadcasting content.

Is it so inconceivable to think that another S.O. team could help their bottom line rather than hurt it?

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10-05-2013, 07:51 PM
  #670
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Both Bell and Rogers have said, on separate occasions, that their ownership of the MLSE is all about broadcasting content.

Is it so inconceivable to think that another S.O. team could help their bottom line rather than hurt it?
Exactly!

Especially, if Bell and Rogers slit for form the 2nd team even better for them.

Why have a monopoly when you can have a duopoly?

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10-05-2013, 09:45 PM
  #671
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Last I heard was Verizon won't be entering the market at this time. I don't think they were scared off it was a new investment of some type in the US that changed their minds.

I was hoping they would.
Toronto can't have an NFL team but you want Verizon to Crush, Telus, Rogers and Bell?

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10-06-2013, 09:17 AM
  #672
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Toronto can't have an NFL team but you want Verizon to Crush, Telus, Rogers and Bell?
Hello sir.

Yes and yes but the word crush is a bit much.

"Toronto can't have an NFL team but you want Verizon to make Telus,Rogers and Bell more competitive" is better.

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10-06-2013, 09:20 AM
  #673
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Exactly!

Especially, if Bell and Rogers slit for form the 2nd team even better for them.

Why have a monopoly when you can have a duopoly?
How does that work.

Rogers keeps the Leafs

Bell gets second team and has to give up tv rights to Rogers?

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10-06-2013, 10:44 AM
  #674
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Hello sir.

Yes and yes but the word crush is a bit much.

"Toronto can't have an NFL team but you want Verizon to make Telus,Rogers and Bell more competitive" is better.
Hello ryan.


Fair enough

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10-06-2013, 01:29 PM
  #675
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Hello sir.

Yes and yes but the word crush is a bit much.

"Toronto can't have an NFL team but you want Verizon to make Telus,Rogers and Bell more competitive" is better.
The only thing Verizon will compete in is sleaze-factor. If you think that the BRATs (Bell, Rogers, And Telus) are sleazy, you ain't seen nothing. Verizon makes them look like choir boys...
I wouldn't touch Verizon with a 10-foot-pole.

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